i think the reason beaucarneas lose their leaves-other than age-is inconsistent watering-first too much and then too little. at that size it really is easier to regulate watering in a smaller pot. usually i wait until the surface is completely dry and slightly springy to the touch, then water thoroughly. they will do better in a high light environment but don't really require-if you have two you might try rotating them.

MsGF - Necrotic leaf tips and margins are an indication the plant is unable to efficiently move water to the most distal points. The most common causes (aside from natural senescence) are over-watering, under-watering, and a high level of dissolved solids (salts from fertilizers and tap water) in the soil solution). Some chemicals (like fluoride) are also accumulative in plant tissues and can cause necrosis of tips/margins, especially in plants sensitive to particular chemicals.

You can almost always avoid or reduce the severity by using a soil that allows you to water correctly (flushing the soil to rid it of excess accumulations of dissolved solids) w/o having to worry the soil will remain saturated so long it will cause root rot. Poor soils are what gave rise to the myth that ponytails like tight roots. They don't "like" tight roots any better than any other plant, but it IS better to allow the plant to suffer the stress of tight roots than to use an inappropriate soil and risk over-watering. Note the soil used by Nomen Nudum just above. If all the soil in the pot looks like what you can see in the picture, it's an excellent choice and will allow you to avoid several of the limitations associated with more water-retentive soils.

If you want to maximize growth and vitality, soil choice is an important key, along with light levels and temps, of course.

For fastest growth of the caudex, keep it covered (with soil) and feed well when the plant is actively growing. When I grew this plant, I kept it in a large large pot with a very fast (draining) soil,
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and root-pruned/repotted (see Laura's pictures and link upthread) about every 3rd year and fertilized weekly during active growth. It summered outdoors and spent winters, dry, in a cool basement. Tight roots slow top and caudex growth as other contributors have noted.

Al

davids10, beautiful beaucarnia, and lovely photo composition. I'm also impressed by your well-behaved kitty, sitting quietly on the chair instead of climbing up that big, inviting cat toy ... :-).

should have added that in a high light, warm, dry, environment like the average american living room they will grow all winter-just be even more careful about watering and fertilize at half summer strength.

Thanks tapla, I grow in clay pellets so drainage and salts are not an issue. I don't actually water them the same way I do with my other plants, so they don't sit in water. I found it would be too much for them. Every 3-4 weeks I bring them to the shower and let the pellets soak. When the excess water drained away, stand them back on the saucers. I use the same method for watering succulents and cacti and those seem to like it.
They are now on a shelf well above a radiator (not working at the moment) that will give them some warm dry air during winter.
I just can't find a perfect spot for these two :(

Just wanted to say all of the palms here are gorgeous!

For optimal growth, the caudex should not be buried on these.

Hi Jeff!

What will happen if it's covered...wouldn't rot,would it?

Edited to add that I meant specifically if it was covered in a gritty mix.

This post was edited by asleep_in_the_garden on Tue, Nov 18, 14 at 12:04

FWIW - I started a package of 10 seeds about 10 yrs ago. About half to 7 germinated. I kept 2 and gave the others to friends. One lady is elderly and I repot her plants regularly. I kept my plants' caudices covered except for about the amount of basal flare you would leave exposed on a tree. My plants and hers were in the same soil and we both used FP 9-3-6. The caudex on both my plants after 2 years were roughly the size of a softball - just a little smaller, while hers were about baseball size. All were in the same size container - 1 gallon nursery cans.

BTW - I know this plant has a reputation for not liking wet feet. My experience is, the plant might not like wet feet, but it does like a lot of water. There are LOTS of plants like that - potatoes and blueberries come immediately to mind. The soils I use don't support perched water, and I think that is a key issue in preventing the advent of root rot and maximizing growth. I watered these plants all summer long on roughly the same schedule I use for my woody plants, and they thrived on the treatment.

Much of what is today 'convention' has been born of the need to keep a plant from dying, rather than the quest to get it to perform at its best. I don't profess to be an expert at anything. I grow some succulents and all those I grow and have grown perform(ed) very well. If Mr McHarris knows the caudex of this plant needs to be exposed, please follow his direction, not mine. I know a lot about growing a wide variety of plant material in containers, but on this point I'll defer in spite of my own observations.

Al

But when you covered yours,I'm guessing that if what you had been working with was a peat and perlite type mix,you'd have left it exposed like Jeff says. My guess is that gritty is airy enough to get away with that,right?

Just musing...heck I don't even keep one. lol

I think there is no question that soil choice is a major part of how much a grower can coax out of ANY plant, but especially plants like this, that don't tolerate soggy conditions.

Al

That was always my impression of it many years ago when I actually had one...believe I had the caudex up to about a softball in girth.

I'd always heard that you were supposed to leave it uncovered,but if your experimentation has led you to this conclusion,I find it pretty interesting.

I wonder though...when you had yours covered,did it try to put out new roots from above the former soil line?

aitg,

I've forgotten your name, otherwise I'd use it. IME, growing a plant in the San Diego yard which is, even as we read/write this, turning into a monster, and seeing 7'-wide ones, not an uncommon thing in SoCal, all of them had the upper half of the caudex exposed, hence its accurate common name of 'Elephant Foot'.

While a lot of caudex-bearing and pachcaul plants have their roots /lower half exposed on purpose in our care, IIRC these are what you see in the wild in a lot of cases, their natural predilection as it were.

What Al says about soil for this plant is, of course, generally true, but IMO it's just one of many environmental factors. What I mean by that is is this plant, unlike many of its cousins in the succulent plant family, can take a lot of abuse - I could grow it in almost pure manure, or water it every day, or grow it for too many years / not enough years in a small pot, or all of those things together, as long as I adjust the sun/water/heat accordingly. It would grow magnificently in pure potting soil (yeah, the heavy, peaty, stickful, nasty kind) if it were in a pot which is then sitting in another pot, providing elevational gravitational drainage. This plant would grow wonderfully and fabulously if it were in the same soil and almost never watered - it's not particularly choosy, like a Pachypodium brevicaule would be, about its environmental factors, as long as you accurately grow it to that heat/light/water/soil/circulation wiggle-room-containing mandala. How's that sound?

Sounds...like good info! lol

By the by,..a while back,Beth(Plantomaniac08) started calling me by my "real" name which is "Jon". To date,she's probably the only one around here who does,but you're welcome to as well if you like. :)

Jeff, are you suggesting that there are many ways to climb this caudex?

I think every grower needs to ask how they want their plant to look like. Optimum growth, with caudex exposed or not. I think there are aesthetic preferences to think about . I was not aware that we were in a competition for the most optimum plant. I like the look of a raised caudex myself. I have heard some knowledgable people talk about growing the caudexes under the soil and then raising it later, and I have seen plants of mine produce naturally a huge caudex above the ground. I do think that different species develop their caudexes in different manners so I always go to habitat pictures for my inspiration. Even here there are forces of restrained rock filled environment and heavy erosion that could be historic factors.Our plants are our babies and we do like playing with them. Try one way and learn from it. Try another way and learn from that.

If you're lucky enough to live where you can grow beaucarnea in the ground, this is what you get after 14 years. This was a small triple in a 3-gallon nursery can. The largest of the trunks is over 12 feet tall.

Here's a closeup of the caudex with my flip-flop for size comparison.

Fawnridge, Beautiful Did you bury those caudexes or let them grow on top of the soil?

Really don't remember, but there's a lot of mulch that's been put down there in 14 years, so they may have been buried in all that time.

Jon, Fawn and Mara,

It seems that this 'caudex exposed on the top' is how it normally grows, both in cultivation and out. I don't think you can promote more roots by burying more of the previously-exposed caudex. Admittedly, I haven't tried, but as it grows, I know I've exposed more and more of the upper caudex and the plant's again rootbound in a year or so, making me think there's no benefit to covering it, and a lot of benefit to not doing so.

Mara,

This plant, if properly situated for maximum drainage, would quickly be that 7'-across beast, if it were growing in the Philippines. It happens fast enough as it is in San Diego, and I think as David noted, doesn't stop growing, even in winter (when it slows down a bit, but doesn't cease operations until spring like most of its ilk). I've got one ready for repotting here - I'll get some pics of that. Since I like the pot it's in, I'll do the suggested root-pruning and put it back in the same pot, only with fresh soil.

perhaps we know our stuff as well?

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LOL Amara...Brainwashed? Me?

Just because I am trying to help settle what seems to me an unnecessary level of hostility here hardly means that I am lockstep in some kind of cult worship.

Things really needn't be so inflammatory here,that's all.

Al,

I never wrote that, and more importantly, I know that's not true with me.

Jon,

See the aforementioned skinned cat reference. If I come asking for what's wrong with my plant, and it isn't doing well, I'd hope what I'm doing wrong would be explained. I'm glad what Al informs you of is of value to you - no doubt he's helped many. It's when he's not asked, and implies that another method is incorrect, is when the problem starts. And he accepts another shovel when he's already in a hole.

On the related subject, this post did inspire me to repot the smaller Beaucarnea r., so thank you all for the stimulus.

Under the on-the-spot guidance and counseling of Box Kitty Caramella, we bring you this show-and-tell.

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It's a little stuck in the pot.

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Pretty much all roots, and in fact I removed more than I kept.

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One must keep one's records accurate, in a non-relational-data-base sort of way.

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Very nice plant Hoovb

Gail,

Is that Huntington's? It is a nice plant.

Surprisingly quick to repot, but just too lazy to not use the old top dressing to go with the new soil.

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David how long have you been growing that plant?

Jon,

I appreciate that you're trying to calm the roiling waters - this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened, and there's one common element to them all. I'll leave it at that, but you're a smart guy.

So, since you're relatively new here (might this be the thread with the most contributions by you?), what do you grow? I think you're at Houseplants a lot, and I'm glad you're here.

If that was meant as a slight,I'll take it on the chin and smile.

Have a great night. :)

Edited to say that this was in response to David.

This post was edited by asleep_in_the_garden on Tue, Nov 18, 14 at 22:27

Not at all - genuinely interested.

LOL@my slow responses!

Sorry for the confusion Jeff...the edit above came too late.

I don't frequent this board so much because sux aren't really my bag. More of a tropical foliage kinda guy so yeah,..HP is more my regular hangout.

tlbean the beaucarnea is 14 yrs old. it has reached the point where i will probably cut the stem, root it and pot it on. while thats happening the old plant should do some interesting things-probably multiple stems.

You could always remodel your house and add some height to that window.

This post was edited by wantonamara on Tue, Nov 18, 14 at 23:36

the odd thing is that until a couple of years ago when i bought some 3 in dudleyas and other succulents in a moment of weakness at Cal Flora the beaucarnea was the only inside plant i had-i'm more an outside kind of guy.

I am more of an outside plant person also, but when my back was turned, my aloe plants started to copulate.Where do they all come from. Pots do it too. I have put more and more of them in the ground and I am using protective measures for the winter.More and more of my cactus and succulents are cold hardy and in the ground. I do not know where all these pots came from. They are worse than aphids, the way they multiply. I have been letting winter decimate some of the ones I have grown tired of and can not give away. I am such bad mom.

San Diego Botanic Garden. Looking for a better picture.

Here's a Huntington baby:
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This several inches stuff all over the ground was fallen from Beaucarnea flowers at the Huntington. The flowers were absolutely mobbed with bees. There were also bees rolling around in this fallen stuff--petals and pollen, I think.
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Bees rolling around like drunks.
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The flower spikes were maybe 30" long on 10-15' Beaucarneas.
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Need to bring my wide angle lens next time to get the bases which never fit in the frame with my usual lens.

MOST impressive!

Never seen one in bloom before.

Thanks for posting those pics,Hoovb! =)

that is amazing-wonderful pictures particularly of the bees-the sites that describe the beaucarnea flowers as insignificant should see those.

cactus i keep forgetting to ask what is the plant in the washbasin in front of boxcat and what are you doing with it?

well i was spanked. mara d'ya know how long i can leave penstemon cuttings before repotting them? there are 12 in each 6" pot. will they last awhile or should i move them out? have space constraints while rebuilding cold room.

Question in refferance to overpotted Is it to much pot for the plant or is it to much plant for the pot ?

david,

That's Gasteria 'Peg's Big Boy', a Gasteria hybrid of unknown parentage.

Nomen N - Too much pot for the plant.

A plant can only be over-potted if the soil being used jeopardizes the root system's ability to function efficiently. If the soil drains well enough, you could start a ponytail seed in a 55 gallon drum and have the potential for exceptional growth and vitality.

The measure of how much underpotting hinders growth can be easily seen by looking at leaf bundle scars (where there used to be a leaf growing). As ponytail's roots become congested, growth slows. You can see this in how far apart leaf bundle scars are on the plant. As root congestion hampers growth more and more, the leaf bundle scars become closer and closer together, so even a beginner can read what impact tight roots have on both extension (of branches/stems) and actual growth, which is a measure of increase in the plant's mass.

Soil choice has more influence on whether a plant is or is over-potted than any other factor.

Al

This post was edited by tapla on Wed, Nov 19, 14 at 18:34

I have never thought to grow penstemons from cuttings. I grow them from seeds. My wrist has a red mark on it from a wrist slapping. I asked management if AT was reprimanded also for a fine display of --------- ---------- -------------. Yea.. anyway out of here before that guy comes back.

Nomen, It really maters who answers your question. What is your planting medium and if you like to give weight to the person with the most words or the fewest. The plant is very tolerant of many conditions.

overpotting usually refers to too much pot--let's say moving a 3" pot into 12" pot. if you are careful about watering there won't be a problem but its kind of wasted effort.

So Al,..here's the thing...when someone challenges me to change my usual routine,my kneejerk response is to oppose them,right? Back in school,we had studio classes that really called on your creativity to solve the problems in assignments,so this is feeding the beast as well. A while back I was puzzling out how to get around perched water,and it occurred to me that if you took a chopstick and made a hole in your ummm let's just say "peat pudding" for example,and then fed a wick down the hole to hold it open. Logically,one would deduce that this measure would improve drainage,right?

Somehow I think I addressed this with you before and at the moment my memory is failing me but I think the issue left was that flushing would still be incapable of removing all the salts,etc with all that fine particulate matter to contend with.

Soooooo...soak it? Leach the salts out THAT way?

There's got to be a way to get around doing what I was told was THE best way of solving this problem(and thus far I can't do it). It's like a creative assignment,and I usually set the curve in my classes so you can imagine how frustrating this becomes, lol

Edited to fix typos.

This post was edited by asleep_in_the_garden on Wed, Nov 19, 14 at 19:27

Oh and hey,..Jeff,..this has been killing me...what is that mix you re-potted with made of? It looks like a lot of fun to work with.

Nope - wouldn't do anything unless the wick you inserted hung below the bottom of the pot. Let's have this conversation on another thread. While soil is pretty pertinent to how the back & forth has gone so far, what you're asking is probably beyond borderline OT. Catch up to me anywhere else where soils or water retention are the focus or what should be the focus of a thread.

See the link below if you're interested in tips that will help you deal with excess water retention.

Thanks again for the kind words.

Al

Here is a link that might be useful: Dealing w/excess water retention

Jon,

It's roughly 1/3 rinsed #1/#2 granite, 1/3 sieved Turface and 1/3 sieved top soil/potting soil.

Thanks Jeff!

And you're most welcome,Al.

I see your point about meandering,and agree. We'll pick that one back up another day.

Have a great night everyone. :)