Hey BP,

I can't offer much in the way of help, but wanted to know...Is that new growth below the larger, paler green leaves or are they offsets?

You mean in the third picture (lower left)? What do you mean by new growth hookilau? Those are offsets, about eight or more of them, all around the base. Although i like the elegant appearance of a solitary rosette in a pot, i'm excited that it's mature enough to start suckering.

Mine did the same thing... not sure if it really means anything. I just purchased mine and repotted it immediately in gritty mix.

Topsy-turvy likes to multiply...

yes, lower left, that's the pic I was referring to.

hmmm....that's a lotta babies =D

Maybe there's nothing wrong with her, other than she's nursing a litter XD

Since 25 degrees Celsius is the equivalent of 77 degrees Fahrenheit, I expect it's not dormant. Especially since there are offsets. I don't know for sure, but I'm thinking below 40ish degrees F (4.4 C) might bring on a dormant period.

Maybe it's just responding to the change in weather conditions, since you say this is your cooler season. It looks plenty healthy in pics though.

They like very fast drainage...dirt with sand in a pot is bad- cutting off air to the roots. They grow in cracks of rocks or even on tree's with deep bark in nature. Air. ..lots of it.
Replant in ground bark and lava or use a orchid mix.

I was thinking of that too ("nursing a litter"). Now, the question is, should i repot it even when it's in this state? I'm afraid to disturb the offsets.

4C is not going to happen here, ever. 25C is around the coolest it gets, maybe dipping to 20C in some areas. So when IS the dormant period for these plants in my country if that's the case? I'm also confused about the mix you guys use. Isn't there an alternative with soil? Because things dry out fast here when the plant is under the sun and i can't afford to be feeding them fertilizer all the time. The nursery i bought this from uses a loose kind of soil but their plants grow up just fine (albeit in different climate, they grow them at this cold city plateau 6 hrs from here).

Here's my Echeveria 'Perle Von Nürnberg'. It had wider spread-out leaves when i bought it, around the same time as my 'topsy turvy'. Again, i removed the lower leaves when they wilted. Although the coloring is better (the center is now a more vivid purple), the rosette and leaves stays small. If you can see here, the mix i used is different. It's what they sell as cactus/succulent mix here. It's very fine and has coir, and though it drains well, i suspect it stays moist longer than the sandy soil i now use. (That's why i removed the dressing, I was paranoid about the soil staying moist too long).

My question is, if the roots are compacted with the fine mix/ soil would that have an effect on the rosette and leaf size? Or, again, are my echeverias dormant in this cool weather? (The place where they come from has much cooler weather though).

Thanks people, please be patient with me. I appreciate your input a lot, i just wish someone who has a similar climate can weigh in too. I just got more plants yesterday and i want to put them in better mix so i finally found some perlite (didn't know it was so light!) and very small gravel.

Dormant with these means dry..not never watered.just let go very dry between watering. These plants come from warm climates also..not as humid as where you are though.
You wont hurt the plant moving it the right media- its the wrong media that is causing to pup like crazy as the roots rot. A survival mode of offspring.
You need a mix with much lava or tufa rock,perlite,some ground bark. With some potting soils. Watch it thrive.

Stush

Thanks for your last post - you just mentioned something I wasn't thinking about:
its the wrong media that is causing to pup like crazy as the roots rot"
No wonder mine had so many babies...it was in wrong media, luckily it didn't rot.
I separated all of the offsets some time ago, here is the original plant (was just sitting there without being potted-up for a while).

Since lane is in humid climate, maybe omitting the soil would help? Just wondering...
Rina

"its the wrong media that is causing to pup like crazy as the roots rot" --> O_O This one got me too. Now i'm resisting the crazy urge to repot it in the middle of the night (it's 2 am here) except that i only have perlite, pea gravel and fine soil (almost silty!) at hand. I'll be looking for more stuff to add to that magic mix at a new nursery tomorrow. Thanks Stush/ stanofh.

The things is, i don't know WHEN the dormant period is for these plants in my country. They say winter dormant but we don't have winter. What then? The 'topsy turvy' gets dusty dry actually.

Could there be a substitute for bark? I noticed nurseries here like mixing up rice hulls with their soil. Is that the same function?

Rina, how long has that been unpotted?

Iane

lane

It is (still) unpotted, at least 2mo, maybe more? See all the roots?

Btw, I have lots of succulents in mix of perlite+gravel, some in mix of turface+perlite, some in mix of turface+gravel....and some in 'classic' 1-1-1. As long as it drains well, it works.

If you look at the posts I suggested earlier (your other thread), I think there are some other suggestions about potting mixes.

I don't know anything about rice hulls, but noticed that some use it.

I just potted up whole bunch of jade tricolor cuttings, most in turface+gravel mix (all in the photo).

Rina

This post was edited by rina_ on Tue, Nov 18, 14 at 18:08

If it is possible for you to get turface that would be great. That would help your plant with the watering schedule but allow you to make a gritty mix. It the very least I recommend you ammend your soild with 50% perlite, and just mix that in with the soil you have. That should help.

mine lost several leaves from the bottom and is putting out offsets. If that is due to poor soil it could be from the soil it was in when I purchased it. I immediately put it into gritty mix and it has continued to loose leaves for a few months now. Maybe it just takes time to adjust? Overall, I have several offsets and new leaves coming in from the top. It is a healthy plant.

Well that's the same condition as my plant, new growth on top, losing leaves below but with several offsets. If i could just figure out the dormant periods here... and to find local (and inexpensive) alternatives to the mix.

I'll be anticipating the time i can post a pic of my healthy plants in hardcore grit haha.

What if there is no dormant period in your climate?

What drives dormancy?

If it's lack of water, nutrients or cold...I expect you have none of that going on =D

I could be wrong & I hope someone else will pipe up here, but in your climate, I personally would not expect any of my succulents to go dormant 8)

It is my understanding that plants will go dormant in certain conditions - low light, low nutrients, little water, cold. For some of us the natural light availability changes so much that in winter, with short days of low light, we want our plants to go dormant so they don't put out too much leggy growth. For some plants this natural process that we are trying to mimic is what may stimulate the plant to flower or reproduce. I think it is most important to make sure your plants are healthy, and if you live in conditions that don't stimulate the cycle of dormancy, I personally wouldn't worry too much about it. Just my thought. But someone with more expertise may disagree.

Oh, my naivete. I thought it was a textbook thing. You know, "In September, they go dormant." Lol. I feel so silly.

A kind (and funny) soul whose sister also grows succulents here has emailed me that dormancy is unlikely in these conditions. So it's not the season, not the sunshine, not the water. It's the soil then (and now, possibly spider mites and mealies, oh no). Thank you guys for alleviating my worry about that. Now i''ll go fret about gritty mix and our infamous searing summers ;)

This post was edited by brown_panda on Wed, Nov 19, 14 at 3:12

lol! No worries BP =)

I've gotten myself all wound up in the past simply because I tried to follow all the conventional (and unconventional) advice, forgetting the concepts, in my enthusiasm to comply.

Still learning that lesson, in fact 8)

I was very new to Adenium & the gritty mix. I tried it in the summertime & made the mistake of trying to water sparingly, as one normally would for succulents in a mix that is high in peat, having small particles & of course, in a container. Otherwise known as the trifecta of death for succulents -____-

I had underestimated the amount of watering one had to do with a gritty mix compounded by the heat of summer.

Thinking I was doing it wrong, I switched back to a bagged mix.

By comparison, they did better when I watered like mad & used gritty. Though my confirmation bias did not really hurt my plants, they didn't thrive either 0_o

Live & learn =D

On the subject of pests.

Ugh.

Apparently the mealies have outpaced my inspections and misting with alcohol, yesterday, I ordered Bayer Advanced 3-in-1 Insect Disease and Mite Control concentrate from Amazon.

No more foolin' around, everyone gets treated and I hope to end this silliness.

Good luck & do update us. I'm still learning & it's infinitely helpful to hear what's happening with others' collections =)

You need to try things if you cant get true C&S mixes.

Maybe cat litter? Clay balls sold for hydroponics? The local river's course gravels?
Even here in the USA,where the right grits are available? commercial mixes still have a heavy amount of peat. I dont get that..must be financial reasons,or 2cubic bags of grit are too heavy...something.

btw- Bayer systemic works wonders. Amazingly so.

Hookilau i'm trying to wrap my head around the concepts but it's a bit difficult applying it to whatever materials are available and affordable right now.

I can't afford to water like mad. Summers are really harsh here so i was hoping for a mix that can hold a little more moisture because i can adapt more to NOT watering so much during the cooler season.

Stan/ Stush, I've been trying things but it's frustrating. That was when i had lots of time. I'm kind of pressed for it right now... i'm trying hard to understand the mechanics behind soil particles/ qualities so i can make a suitable and affordable mix from local materials soon.

Of all the things you mentioned, the most available to me is river gravel in different sizes.

I've started a thread asking for help about the mix i can use. Maybe you guys can chime in over there :)

I'll keep the bayer in mind but I don't think my pests are out of control YET. I sprayed yesterday with an alcohol-water mix i found here and added a tbsp of Ivory soap. But i think i burned some of my succulent leaves hehe. I washed and repotted the ones that i thought were in the worst condition. This one i repotted too in sifted perlite/ gravel/ very coarse sand. The original mix was so compacted. They tend to grow fine roots when the soil is fine, yes?

Iane

Here is a link that might be useful: Succulent grower in the tropics needs help with gritty mix

This post was edited by brown_panda on Fri, Nov 21, 14 at 6:29

I suspect that part of your problem is over watering. Rina's photo gives a clue- the plant puts out roots like that because they are looking for moisture. Where you live they will be getting moisture from the air, for part of the year. All plants should have some kind of rest, so if you have a time when it is drier than usual, then give them a rest by not watering. The most healthy plants have a good root system, which has had to look for water.
If your grit is small add it to the soil mix. I have used mixes with 50% grit and the rest perlite and loam.
I have only had Red Spider mite once ( on plants I bought )and could not find any chemical that would gaurantee killing it, So I destroyed the infected plants before it infected others. I then had to empty my area I used for quarantine,then cleaned and disinfected it.
Do you feed your plants?

This post was edited by AllanA1234 on Sat, Nov 22, 14 at 5:56