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kayan_gw

Legal Theft Deterrents? Like, say, electrical fences?

kayan
18 years ago

Hi there fellow Californians.

It seems that every once in a while when I step outside to look at the little planter box at the front of my house my blood pressure rises.

Today I found that the thief has yet again snapped off a Dahlia, a few Daffodils, and even DUG UP a Daffodil bulb. She is getting way too bold. (We know it's a she because my parents have seen her snapping off our flowers. I'm still angry that my dad decided to say nothing the first time and didn't nip it in the bud.) Daffodils are plentiful and the bulbs are only 25 cents around here. I planted them as an experiment and can't believe she would go as far as digging them out. Now I know I can't plant ANYTHING with flowers there.

What to do?! The front of the house only has the small planter box which was built into the wall and it's the only place that gets full sun so you can imagine how many things I want to plant there, but can't because of this thief (or maybe these thieves).

I'm in San Francisco. Are there laws against using electrical shock to protect your property or am I just really daydreaming my vengance? If anyone has any clever device, structure, or idea I would really really appreciate it. If not, I suppose I'd have to resort to pulling everything out and just planting thistle or something. But ooooh I really want to catch this repeating offender red-handed, camera in hand!

Thanks for reading, folks. Think the blood's thinned back a bit. ;)

Comments (39)

  • CA Kate z9
    18 years ago

    Is it possible for you to set up one of these sprayers that have a motion sensor... as in someone reaching to rob your planter box? I have one that looks like a tucan and douses the offending squirrels (in my case) with a good shot of water. Imagine how surprised your thief would be to suddenly get shot with water -- instead of a pellet gun filled with rock salt.... which was my grandfather's way of dealing with watermelon thieves.

  • jenn
    18 years ago

    I like the water sprayer idea. Or what about one of those croaking frog motion detectors?

    Be careful you don't use something that could actually cause bodily harm or the ACLU might go after you. Criminals have rights, you know! 8-O

  • melle_sacto is hot and dry in CA Zone 9/
    18 years ago

    One of my neighbors has a motion sensor sprayer; the first time I walked past it (I was passing the home on the sidewalk) it really scared me.

  • patty4150
    18 years ago

    Have you tried leaving a very direct note that informs her that you don't appreciate it?

    Or perhaps something more subtle, that fits your personality. Like, if you are religious, you could find a scripture verse that somehow gets the message across. Or, if you are new-age, you could try some saying about karma or something.

    But I would expect that the direct aproach would work best. Perhaps find out if she is breaking a city ordinance or something, and leave a note to that effect.

  • kayan
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Hahaha, you guys are so cool!

    I've never thought about the motion sensored sprayers- s'matter of fact I didn't even know they existed. Definitely something I'm going to look into. Now I wonder if anything would actually deter her from actually taking out the entire thing altogether! That would be interesting.

    I really like the croaking frog too. If I hide it in the Dahlias juuuust right... can you tell I'm having a lot of fun with the suggestions? ;)

    And patty, yes, I was thinking about the note just earlier. Less polite than your suggestions, but I've changed my mind about swearing since then. Guess I'll try this first, and I hope she can read English!

    Thanks again everyone!

  • shadowsmom
    17 years ago

    Hey Kayan-

    Had to put my 2 cents in, as I have lived in a pretty tough neighborhood. Be careful about "get-back" - the person stealing your flowers probably has a few other social skills challenges - and you and your dad don't want to start anything that might escalate. With that in mind, maybe cactus (carefully wired to the flower box) or small strands of barbed wire interspersed with some silk flowers would have the proper effect? ItÂs a lot nicer than broken beer bottles, which is what one of my long-time neighbors put in her flowers. I know this all sounds tacky, but you have to consider your audience. Maybe a mousetrap? That could be perfectly innocent!

    Posting notes or small signs really works, too. I was surprised to see the positive reaction when I put a sign on my lawn discouraging pet-pooing. Parents would point it out to their kids and it was taken very constructively, even by the resident gangsters with their pit bulls!

    Finally, remember all the enjoyment your neighbors get from your flowers. I used to have some pretty scary people tell me how much they enjoyed my flowers and it was enough to keep me fixing up my yard for the 15 years I lived in the city. Good luck!!

  • baci
    17 years ago

    Shadowsmom makes a good point, but my experience is you can not reason with a thief. I will forgive someone that steals once or twice from me, but three times & I act.

    I have a neighbor that steals plants & just about anything. I put my plants on a monitor, we let them know we have a monitor on our house because we have had plant theft. We did not blame them, but let them know we have monitors all over, & one of the monitors points at their house. We also showed them the monitor, and let them know we have audio capacity. We also let them know if we caught anyone on our property we would have them arrested. When I catch them sneaking onto the property of other neighbors, I now let the neighbor know what they have been over on their property. I usually find out that neighbor has had something come up missing. They have been warned, & they know if they come over here again, they are on tape. I have also asked other neighbors whom they have likely stolen from to call the police if they come over here when we are gone.
    I move anything of value out of my front area or anything that is accessible. I built a fence to keep them from sneaking in my back yard. I also chain up rare plants & put a marker with my initials on the pots. I am going to start burning some kind of ID into my rare plants, assuming I will not scar them too much.
    If you want to prosecute, put a fruit plant out front for them to steal. If they take it & you legally catch them, report them for theft of a CA fruit. You will need to check into the legalities of this, but from what I have been told CA does not like fruit theft & will pay more attention to it.

  • kayan
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Thanks to shadowsmom and baci for your input as well.

    shadowsmom: You're right, it IS something to think about, since we're not exactly in the most pristine neighborhood. I'm going to try for a "Please do not pick flowers" sign first and then probably try the decorated barbed wire.

    baci: You've pinpointed exactly how I feel. It's ridiculous, and if the thief really is only that one woman, she's getting too bold. Before all this my parents saw her simply walking down the block and picking any available flower off of each and every plant at every house- she had a bag with her and everything! It's a wonder none of my neighbors have raised any kind of fuss over it. I guess it's a hush-hush kind of neighborhood. I've still got half a mind to set up a webcam or something out there, but I suppose that will be Plan C for now.

    Thanks for the CA fruit info. We have lemons out there- all I need to do is inch the plant closer to the door and aim and shoot (the camera, of course)!

    Thanks again for everyone's suggestions!

  • buddyben
    17 years ago

    Are you sure you want to use barbed wire? If she cuts herself, do you want to have anything to do with it (even though she is the one in the wrong)? I say to start with the Please don't pick the flowers sign and see what happens.

  • jane_socal
    17 years ago

    Instead of barbed wire, you could leave some thorny branch cuttings (bougainvillea, even lemon or lime) in front of the box, so if she doesn't have gloves, her fingers might get pricked.

    Try bird netting over the display, stapled or fastened all the way around the box - makes you too much trouble to steal from.

    Or post a sign that says "Beware plant thieves: black widow spider on guard duty."

  • Moon Rabbit
    17 years ago

    I'd go with a sign, though the motion sensor sprinkler idea is pretty funny to think about too. I'd make the note a little more direct, too. "Please stop picking my flowers or I will call the police."

    If you or any of the neighbors knows what she looks like, take the opportunity to talk to her in person and politely say "Please do not pick my flowers, I've put alot of work into this garden. If you would like some cuttings now and then maybe I can help you." Reducing her cover of anonymity can make a huge difference.

  • carlota
    17 years ago

    Hi,
    You might try getting the flower thief to think in the future by leaving a vase with a few flowers you choose to give her and a note saying how much you love your flowers but would be happy to share with her again in the future if she is willing to help you tend the garden. Mention in the note how hard you work for your garden to bloom and that as the saying goes, "you reap what you sow." You know she loves your flowers, she might be a willing helper.

    She might just be in dire need of some flowers in her life and is too shy to ask.

    Ok, I admit to believing the best in everyone. That said, I too think the motion sensor sprinkler is brilliant and think it would be a serious deterrent.

    Carlota

  • eloise_ca
    17 years ago

    I like the sensor idea although wish they weren't so expensive. I too have problems with kids and parents cutting my flowers. Yesterday, I found out that someone came into my yard and stole whatever avocados were still on my tree -- I am pissed! I don't believe a nice note or vase with flowers would work in my area. Whatever one decides to use, i.e., water sensors, barb wire, glass, etc., let's all remember to say 'it was to keep the squirrels, cats, dogs' away and not intended to hurt thieves, LOL!

  • awoodwaring
    17 years ago

    You can be held liable if she hurts herself on your property...even if she wasn't "invited". Stick with the harmless things. Maybe try the sign first. Good luck!

  • Iwalani
    17 years ago

    There are very reasonably priced cameras inside floodlights that are commonly sold at 'spy' stores or on the internet. You screw it into an existing socket (the light doesn't work because its actually a camera) and hopefully the socket is pointed where you want to look (like with floodlights they are pointed outward.)

    The camera THEN sends the feed through existing wiring in the house to a small monitor which you can set up a VCR too. Its very useful and clever and interesting. No sound though on mine. They make cameras you can hide or take anywhere nowadays and for very little money. The (visual) baby monitor business is still booming and some of the least expensive camera/monitor packages are intended for babies.

    I think installing a camera shell (which are also sold for VERY cheap) and then putting a sign "Smile- you're on camera" in the flowerbed might help. :)

  • bluestarrgallery
    17 years ago

    We once had our house for sale and someone kept taking the sign at the top of the street. I got so mad I was tempted to do something but I couldn't think of anything. Then my husband suggested I put axle grease on the back of the sign and when the person grabbed it, they would get a hand full of grease that is very difficult to remove. Unfortunately or fortunately we sold our house and I never got a chance to use this technique.

    We once lived in another place and I had an almost black iris in a wine barrell at the end of the driveway, I watered and waited and finally I saw it put on a bud - I was so happy. then the very next day someone came by and cut the iris off - and they cut it with clippers - I knew this because the cut was perfect and on a slant - imagine another plant lover stealing from someone else who loves plants - I was pretty sure I knew who it was but not positive (she did the flower arranging for her church each week - I was tempted to go to the church to see if my iris was on the altar) - so when I saw her I went to very long lengths to tell her how I had pampered that plant and waited and waited and that someone with clippers had actually come and cut it and did she know who that could have been - nary a word from her - stealers and liars - usually never admit they are wrong and sure don't seem to have a conscience or any guilt - I did put a note in the planter but the note kept disappearing - no more blooms though so she didn't get any more. I don't think a note will work - liars usually continue to lie until they are caught in the act and even then they try to make some excuse.

    I am about ready to put up electric fence to keep my neighbors dogs out though - we don't have a dog at present and they come running through my yard and trample all my plants - I have called him several times and his first response was "well, did they do anything" - I said yes they pooped in my yard and trampled my flowers - he says "well I'll try to keep them in"

    It seem sad we have to spend our precious little time, money and energy to keep our property safe and secure.

    good luck and keep us posted.

    Linda

  • kayan
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Linda, oh I'm so sorry to hear about the iris. Some people are just... horrible. After reading so many horror stories (and even experiencing theft for myself) I still can't believe how terrible people can get, and it's still hard to believe that there are gardeners out there who are bad people. If you garden you must be loving, gentle, and charismatic, right? ;) I'm also thinking that if I put out a sign it will be stolen for the piece of bamboo or whatever I use to stick it in the soil with. Ugh.

    iwalani, those are two more things to add to my database. I was thinking about one of those home security signs, wondering if I could nab one somewhere. Our neighbor two doors down has the same dahlias but didn't seem to have the same problem and I always wondered if it was because her home has a security system and a sign to advertise it.

    eloise, wouldn't it be cool to put the motion sensored sprinklers in the tree and watch as the theives get a complimentary shower for a "clean getaway"? Please excuse my bad adaptation of an old joke! LOL

    carlota, you're very kind. :) I did think about just tearing the bulbs out, potting them up, and giving them away to the neighbors, but I also thought that might also breed bad habits. As in, "Hey, if we tear up her stuff she'll give them away to us!"

    The update: Several days after my original post I found two more holes in the box. I gave up. One daffodil bulb was not enough for this terrible TERRIBLE person. She had to come back and yank two more out. And I discovered that she had tried to yank out a fourth but it must've held on tight 'cause the foliage snapped at about half an inch from the soil. I gave up.

    She has since gone back to snapping our dahlias, but I don't care anymore, 'cause no one in my family cares. The dahlias are my mom's and her attitude is to just let the thief pick as much as she wants because there's nothing we can do about it. Well yes, there is much that we can do. Like how about telling her not to damage the plants the last two times you caught her? I was about to yank out the bulbs and stick them in pots in the back yard, but I think they're establishing themselves pretty well and the flowers are on their way out anyway so no more damage can be done. The bulbs were originally yanked out by the thief after the rain, when it was easy to do so, but the soil has since dried.

    It's just very... sad. I would've put up the sign earlier, but it's been raining (of course the rest of you know), and there was no way I was gonna go and have a sign laminated just to have it stolen.

    I'm unhappy, but I'll get over it. The garden in the FENCED back of the house is waiting for me. I think I'll stay there until I get a place of my own.

  • ljrmiller
    17 years ago

    Okay. I looked it up. I figured there was a section of the California Code similar to the Nevada Revised Statues that you could prosecute your flower-thief under--All you need is photographs, preferably something like Polaroids that can't be altered, to take to the police. Not that the police will arrest her, but it's worth a try--

    California Code Section 622:

    1. Every person, not the owner thereof, who willfully injures,
      disfigures, or destroys any monument, work of art, or useful or
      ornamental improvement within the limits of any village, town, or
      city, or any shade tree or ornamental plant growing therein, whether
      situated upon private ground or on any street, sidewalk, or public
      park or place, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
  • tim45z10
    17 years ago

    Somebody put the link for the auto sprayer for us to see. I have cats to keep out. I know how to design one, however I would purchase one to save the time instead.

  • eloise_ca
    17 years ago

    tim45z10, I am not adding a link because if you do a search, you will find various 'vendors' for the sprayer. The one I found is Havahart Spray Away Motion Sprinkler. If protects 1000 sq. ft. and cost around $55.

  • CA Kate z9
    17 years ago

    I bought mine at OSH.

  • youreit
    17 years ago

    Google is our friend. :)

    Brenda

    Here is a link that might be useful: Motion sprinkler Googled

  • lesdvs9
    17 years ago

    I like the mouse trap idea and the squirt idea myself. I think the first time the woman got squirted would be the last time she picked your flowers. However, your first post is pretty old, so did she quit picking your flowers and what worked or what did you do?

  • dslab
    16 years ago

    Maybe security camera might help

  • karij_luvplants
    16 years ago

    pepper spray? cayenne pepper? I also like the grease idea....

  • winterose
    16 years ago

    Nice, big, toothy dog. :>

    OK, bad for some aspects of gardening. But does very well keeping unwanted people out of fenced areas. Doesn't even have to be a mean dog. Most people are not foolish enough to hop into a fenced area with a strange, large dog where it is the dogs own territory.

    That and cameras.

  • kelisk8s
    14 years ago

    Have you tried following the woman? I know this sounds crazy but usually people who do harmful things hate to have the same harm bestowed upon them. You should follow her and find out where she has planted your bulbs and rip them out. Try to do it with her watching. Or if you get there and can't find the bulbs cut something else. ;) When I was in collage I had a stalker, and I was smart enough to figure out who it was. I reported it to our local police and the campus and they would do nothing about it. After much frustration and fear, I got really angry and decided to stalk him back. Apparently I was really angry because I did it so well that he was scared and called the cops. Luckily the cops said the same thing to him that they did to me and I never heard from him again! I once had an entire pot of basil disappear from my porch. I live in a gated community so it had to be someone from the community or a community guest. Since then I have been a pain in the butt at the committee meetings and have let every person their know about my basil plant ;) (Random neighbors, our main gardener, ect.) I also threatened to get another dog and leave her on the porch during the evening. Since then not one more plant has been stolen, and all of them are in portable pots. :) Good luck with the woman, if you make her uncomfortable I'm sure she will get the sign.
    -K

  • kathi_mdgd
    14 years ago

    Security camera,or a fake one.Then put a sign up that says"Smile,you're on candid camera" Gotcha.
    Kathi

  • mrr78
    9 years ago

    I believe Kayan asked about a legal questions on electric fences. All I see is comments about getting a motion activated water sprayer

  • CA Kate z9
    9 years ago

    I think 'the electric fence' was tongue-in-check.

  • Min3 South S.F. Bay CA
    9 years ago

    How about a motion sensor with a speaker that LOUDLY says, in a gruff male voice, "STOP stealing my plants!" Min

  • mbrowne
    9 years ago

    I'm thinking that in the 8 years that elapsed since the original post, they have found their answer.

  • cakbu
    9 years ago

    My thoughts turn towards a snap-type mouse trap nestled among the plants!

  • Chris
    9 years ago

    There are apps that allow you to turn any old phone into a constantly running video camera. Just plug it in and lean it against the front window (assuming the angle is right).

    There are also pretty cheap security cameras out there. D-Link sells some for under $100.

  • kittymoonbeam
    9 years ago

    Fencing seems to be the only practical solution. Or a dog.

  • yovan mcgregor
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    bougainvilleas are not available in my area, guy that has one does not want to give me a cutting although there are many twigs on it, he thinks it is bad luck, he never prunes it and he treasures it soooo much because he got it from his native country. should i make that crucial move and still one cutting? how could i give him some other plant that i have, pretending that i have no room for it, or should I just leave it at his front door unanimously ?

  • eloise_ca
    6 years ago

    yovan, gyr_falcon is right on. Where are you located? Lowe's sometimes have them on their sale shelf very cheap. Beside, I've heard bougainvilleas are very hard to start from cuttings, so it wouldn't be worth turning your neighbor into an enemy.

  • m ml
    6 years ago

    I find this post very helpful. We don't have plant thieves, but we do have squirrels that like to shred the bark on a couple of our trees. Destructive little buggers, they don't even use the bark just leave it shredded on the ground.

    I have no idea why they are picking on just two trees but I am concerned that they will do lasting harm, and I love the idea of squirting them with water, when I am not around.