What I would do.

Leave the standard roses, and get rid of EVERYTHING else. Those arborvitae look miserable.

Encase the square planting areas with boxwood hedges trimmed to a height of 2' to act as the fencing you need and will also give you the formal structure that seems to be the intent of the original design. Boxwood takes sun or shade.

Inside the boxwood hedges, in the shadier areas add small perennials that can handle shadier areas--Hellebores for example are classic and easy. In the sunny areas add small perennials that can handle sun--herbs like dwarf lavenders, dwarf shasta dasies, Nepeta, lillies, stuff like that. Keep it simple, mostly, masses of the same plant instead of One-of-everyting. Tuck in a few bulbs that will bloom in early spring, maybe. You could make it really simple and formal by using one type of perennial per square--one square edged by the boxwood with the addition of a mass of lavender, another square all shasta daisies, another square all Hellebore, etc, each with a rose at the center..

Think about building or installing a little patio cover or pergola structure over your table so you have some shade for summer. That would also add some height to the area without the need for a tree that would end up shading out everything and sending roots everywhere. Try a couple of easy Clematis on that (avoid a rampant vine) to add a touch of soft foliage to the structure.

That's if you want to retain the formal structure that appears to be there, which is sort of maybe more French than English, the geometrical or parterre style... my hurried thoughts on a Sunday night, I'm tired. Hectic weekend.

Thanks, hoovb. Yes, those poor Arborvitae were planted by the previous owners. Although dwarf, they are not dwarf enough, and this year, they are starting to die out from the inside, which happens with Arborvitae. Thanks for the plant suggestions, all excellent. Forgot about Hellebores, I do love them.

Our concrete table actually has a very large umbrella that fits in the middle hole, but we keep it out unless we have company. That table serves double duty as our dog washing station, lol!! We run our dogs out in the hills every morning, and we hose them down on the table (better for old backs not to have to bend over). But, the idea of a pergola is great. Will take that into consideration.

Thought about a boxwood hedge around the perimeter of each of the boxes, but not sure I could get it high enough to keep one of my two Aussies out. (One is better behaved than the other). And then be able to get into the boxes myself, to weed, tidy up, etc. But, it would be easier to set up and less expensive for sure. I could then just use plastic bender board to outline the boxes and yank out those 2x4's. Love the dwarf Shasta daisies, perfect with lavender. Wanted something white, short and perennial. Perfect.

Yes, more parterre style, you're correct. We call it the "English Garden" from the previous owners. But it is in the parterre style, and that's what we do want to keep.

Patty S.

Those rose trees are unbelievable. What a show! They are the stars of your formal garden, for sure. What color do you like best with that color? I think a second color is called for. I like chartreuse, pale pink, dark purply red, white, and/or saturated peach with that color. I also like screaming orange and yellow with it.

I agree with Hoovb about tearing out everything but the tree roses.

Depending on the pavers you have in mind for the back of the house, I would use brick for the borders of the squares two or three bricks high. The brick would go well with your wrought iron elsewhere. I would also put them inside the existing border to widen the paths a bit. I love the idea of the inward arc at the corner where the fountain will go. I would not put fences up for the dogs- I would invest in a big battery and some hotwire. One zap and you will no longer have dogs in your beds. Then you can take it down. I think boxing those in with fencing might give it an English cottage garden effect.

I too think a boxwood or dwarf common myrtle hedge around the squares would look good. My dwarf myrtles do okay in full sun or in part shade. Inside the hedge I think Golden Sage would look gorgeous with that magenta rose. Either that, or I would not put any hedge around them, and inside the squares I would choose a single plant that can take both sunny and more shady conditions, something to complement your spectacular roses. Since roses do so well, how about White Meidiland roses? On the shadier side you could use a different white plant. I think I might stick with something chartreuse, though, since I love chartreuse with the color of those roses. Too bad the arborvitae didn't do well there.

I would not use lattice to screen the equipment- I would put a proper fence with opening gates around it to match your garden closet right there on that wall.

A freestanding pergola over your table would look fantastic. I don't know what color your house trim is, but I have found that green and black garden structures make my garden look greener and cooler, and I'll take all the help I can get in that regard.

Patty, it's already beautiful. This sounds like such a fun project- keep us updated on your decisions and progress!

Oh my, Patty....lol..thank you for including me in that knowledgeable group.....but I have to admit that I absolutely do not have the 'designing' gene.....

Thanks for adding your suggestions, Renee! And gypsy, I think your garden is lovely, don't sell yourself short! And thank you Renee for your kind comments. It is such a pretty, pretty area of our yard, and my husband is on board for it to stay formal. And yes, these rose trees are breathtaking. Every year the perform better and better. They are nearly 8 feet in diameter right now . We're going to have to re-stake them. Again. With something really massive, lol!

House is sort of a beige with medium brown trim. Sounds ugly, but it is sort ofTuscan in its style, and it's a nice neutral color. Here's an old photo of the house (much more landscaping and fruit trees, now). My formal garden area is on the left side of the house:
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Colors for the flowering plants. Thinking purple (have some variegated lavender colored iris that will stay, just need to be dug up and repositioned), pink and white. And some silver foliage and green foliage. The lavender I was thinking of using is Lavandula angustifolia 'Thumbelina Leigh'. Very nice, well behaved, very rich green foliage and deep blue purple flower heads. Plus, it is very fragrant. I have found this to be one of the very best lavenders for small spaces, just has so many great qualities. I was also thinking of maybe using some Dianthus? I found these 'Super Trouper' in a fuschia pink, which I think would be a nice color accent. Foliage is silvery:
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White Meidiland roses would be great. Or some white rose. I have a lone 'Glamis Castle' that looks gorgeous below the 'Red Fairy' tree rose. So, yes, white roses would be very pretty. I'd love to have any DA rose, so I might try to mix and match pink, purple and white DA's in the middle of the triangles.

For the shady areas, I could go with a white Kalanchoe, or a white begonia with the Hellebores. The shady area is much more difficult to plant.

Patty S.

This post was edited by hoosierquilt on Mon, May 20, 13 at 18:44

A lovely house- I'd use sandstone colored stones instead of the brick then- something to match your stone on the front of your house. Arizona tan flagstone, maybe? They sell it in brick sized pieces.

I don't have much luck with dianthus sticking around for more than a season or two, but that is really pretty.

Shady areas- how about azaleas?

Austin roses can get big, so I'd choose carefully. Many people seem to like Crocus Rose. My mom's 'Perdita' stays small, and it's similar to an Austin. I have heard that Munstead Wood stays small too. Mine sure is, but that's because it's stunted.

Thanks, Renee. Think we're going to use the same buff colored pavers and their matching edging stones. That way, there will continuity. You can't see the paver path in the photos, but it's just on the other side of the round circle where the round table is, so we're going to take the pavers all the way down the side path next to the house, all the way to the side gate. And, make that pathway wider by about a foot to 18". That will make walking to the side gate easier. But, we also have flagstone in our walkways and patio areas too, so that might be a nice mix and match of hard surfaces. I'll check that out, good idea. Still a formal shape but a nice contrast of materials.

Yes, DA roses can grow like gangbusters, so I am going to make sure to pick out the more well behaved varieties that stay small. One of my nurseries near me always orders a lot of DA's, so hopefully they still have a selection left. If not, I'll have to order directly from DA, which is expensive, but at this late date for roses, my only other option to get just what I want. And, I was afraid of that for Dianthus. Azaleas are a good idea, and begonias seem to do well in this area, too.

Patty S.

It's a very Mediterranean house so i would lean more towards herbs and silver foliage to better agree with the style of the house and the style of the front plantings. Provencal/French/Mediterranean parterre rather than English. Boxwood can get 6' tall easily, won't take them long to get to 2'.

Dianthus were always annuals for me, but maybe I never watered them enough.

I thought about herbs, and had planted some, but they just get so out of control, requiring a lot of trimming up. But, that's still not a bad idea, just maybe be more selective. So, here's what I've got on the top of my list for right now:

1. Leave the 'Red Fairy' tree roses
2. Leave the small Kumquat trees in their pretty terra cotta Italian pots (bottoms are knocked out, so they're really in the ground, just elevated a bit)
3. Go with White Meidiland or Seafoam roses on left and right triangles of the two square areas in the sun (the Kumquat trees are in the middle triangles that all face the inside of the parterre design)
4. Go with with Hydrangea (Incrediball) in the same right and left triangles of the shady square areas (to mimic the roses).
5. Use 'Thumblelina Leigh' lavender in a row in all of the squares along the inside edges of the boxes (sides that all face each other).
6. Use 'Silver Anouk' lavender in a row in the triangles with the kumquats.
7. Re-plant the variegated boxwood "X's" and prune to short little hedges.
8. Using pink begonias in the shady boxes, still trying to come up with a pale pink flower for the sunny boxes. There are a few Marguerite daisies that will stay fairly small and compact. But, chrysanthemums tend to all bloom in the late summer into the fall, so maybe in combination with something else that is pale pink, likes sun and blooms in the spring. Then, fill in with some silvery foliage plants, like Artemisa or something similar. And maybe toss in some blue Lobelia in any spots that need a little bit more blue color. Lobelia will do well both in sun and shade.

Will look at flagstone bricks and see if they are affordable. If not, I'll have to use pavers. When I have it all done, I'll post some "after" photos to this thread. Thank you all for helping me out! The suggestions were very helpful!

Patty S.

I came late to this thread (been super busy lately) but it looks like you got some great advice. And I have to admit I feel like wcgypsy - not worthy of inclusion in such an illustrious group of knowledgeable designers, I'm just an enthusiastic hobbyist who likes to research.

I think your updated plan sounds like it will be gorgeous and I can't wait to see pictures of your progress. I love the idea of white hydrangeas to mimic the roses, and your rose trees are spectacular!

As for the dog, I have had luck putting up temporary fencing around new trees or small garden areas until the plants are established and the dogs are used to going around instead of through. I'm not sure that will will work for you, but it's worth thinking about if you don't want to go the electrified route.

Good luck with the work ahead of you, try to keep cool! Are you getting any of this chilly weather that moved in up north? They actually had frost advisories not too far away from me, it's kind of weird but nice for working outdoors.

Thanks, peachy. No super cool weather for us down here, but yes, we're seeing a little bit of a cool down to the high 60's - low 70's, and a deepening of our typical marine layer we get now (May Grey/June Gloom). So, really, more typical weather for this time of year. And, don't sell yourself short! I love both Renee and Hoovb's yards, and I sure do appreciate all their input.

I think I'm going to try to put up some temporary edging for a bit. If this does not keep my one Aussie out, I'll put up an electrical fence. My older Aussie is very obidient. If I say "No", it's no to him. Rudy however, is a Curious George kind of dog. And he will just wander in to check stuff out. And, if there's a rabbit or a weasel in the yard, both of them would just tear through the boxes in the straightest line possible, regardless of any training :-) So, hopefully they will mind the edging fencing, which I think I can get at 30" tall. Hopefully we can get this started this weekend or next. It's going to take a bit of time, and more money than I want to spend, having come off a wedding for our oldest daughter, but I have to get a grip on this part of our yard before it gets completely away from us! Not looking forward to all the back-breaking labor, but will keep my "eye on the prize", the finished product, lol!

Patty S.

I bought a lot of flagstones for paths and they were cheaper than concrete pavers! You just have to go to a stoneyard and pick through them, but it is kind of fun if you have a good stone yard in the area.

OMG, that would be awesome, and yes, we have a couple. Road trip tomorrow...

Patty S.