Living in California where we often go five months without rain, how large a rain barrel would be needed to provide an inch of water per week to a lawn of ANY size? In the east where two weeks without rain is considered a drought, a reasonable sized rain catchment may be a possibility to bridge possible drought conditions. Al

I agree - rainbarrels seem better suited to short period of drought -- a few weeks at a time in Eastern areas where they rely on rain throughout the year and need to supplement. This wouldn't make a dent in reducing your watering needs. A small home with a yard will use a few hundred gallons a day on average for personal and landscape watering needs. A large one with a lawn and pool might use a thousand or more. A rainbarrel must hold no more than enough for a couple of days, or maybe a week for just landscape.

I have seen some large tanks that were installed underground with a drainage system to divert all rainwater into it and a pumping system to water plants. I think it was on one of the PBS programs. The tank reminded me of the cistern that my old aunt in Kansas had, many years ago.

You would probably be better off with some sort of gray water system. This type of system diverts some of the house drain water out to the yard. You are daily using water that could be "used again" out in the landscape

The above posts are right you probably could not store enough winter rainwater to satisfy you summer needs. And I do not think anybody would want to save rain water for a lawn, now a fruit tree or some other specimen plant , yes of course.

I heard the spokeswoman for EBMUD on the radio the other day saying that if we have another dry year there will be restrictions next summer, i.e. no watering the lawn.

I don't know how much it might cost to install a huge cistern like you suggest (I did actually hear of a guy in Half Moon Bay who did something like that), but I'm pretty sure that replacing your lawn with drought-tolerant landscaping will cost far less.

Or you could just let your lawn die in the summer, like your neighbors will. If theirs turn brown and yours doesn't, they will probably suspect you're cheating.

If you're determined to make a go of keeping your lawn green next summer, I'd just harvest the graywater from your washing machine (drain the first rinse into a laundry sink and the second into a rain barrel) and put a bucket in the shower.

Wow, interesting responses.

I didn't realize the east coast gets that continual rain to replenish tanks. And I was under the assumption (and from watching shows on Sundance channel) that water catchment is common in the Southwest which has long dry summers.

I also didn't expect the attitude that the only alternative might be to simply let my lawn die. I guess lawns are another of the many wierd emotional hot-beds in the whole eco-green arena. I realize some people think lawns are unecessary, and I get that. To each his own. But I have small kids at home, and I'd rather they run around the lawn here than use fossil fuels to drive them to some park to play.

That's why I was trying to think outside the box, for a long-term solution to minimize reliance on EBMUD while still maintaining an enjoyable part of my landscaping which also adds to the value of my property in a crazy crazy market.

Luckily most of my 1/3 acre lot is rugged hillside with mature, well-established natives and a lot of drought resistant shrubbery that I have never once watered in the 10+ years I've owned this home. We took about 1/3 of the area of our previous sod lawn and converted it to a veggie garden, and replanted the rest with a drought tolerant mix of 90% fescue with 10% bluegrass that we maintain organically, leave it longer to water less, etc.

My landscaper who just installed the drip irrigation for the lawn says that we use about 40 gallons per watering and I water 2X a week. So I thought a 500 gallon tank (or 2 500 gallon tanks) just seemed like a way to minimize my reliance on EBMUD, make it through the hottest summer months.

I may need to confirm his numbers, but I certainly don't use HUNDREDS of gallons a day on my landscaping. Hardly.

We're already using cold water from the shower (as it warms) to water my potted plants on my patio, and my little ones are learning about water conservation along with all the other green things we do in our home.

Anyway, perhaps a grey water system is what I ought to be investigating... especially since my washing machine runs 24/7 some days with 2 small kids at home. LOL. Any recommendations for installers or grey water consultants in the Bay Area?

Robert Kourik of Sonoma county has a book on the use of gray water which is pretty complete. He is published by Metamorphic Press, Santa Rosa. Al

> And I was under the assumption (and from watching shows > on Sundance channel) that water catchment is common in
> the Southwest which has long dry summers.

I've never seen the Sundance Channel, but I suspect they're talking about survival water and trying to make every drop count, not lawn water.

I am looking around for more than one rain barrel for my daughter who lives in CA. I found this on Aaron's Rain Barrels. It looks like you can connect them and catch lots of rain!

Here is a link that might be useful: Interesting Rain Barrel System in California

I visited a garden in the city of Monterey 20 years ago who had 20 plastic barrels filling her whole driveway. She had no lawn at all but was an expert ornamental gardener struggling with stringent city water restrictions. All her watering was done by hand with a portable electric pump she used to move water from barrel to barrel. Most of us lack such a dedication to save our gardening color. Al

I saw a HGTV House hunters of a family that was moving from Los Angeles to Melbourne Australia. A good percentage of the upper scale homes had roof water systems. No primitive barrels like here,but large plastic systems that were rectangular more or less and covered a wall back of the house..like giant flasks.
Of course Melbournes rains arent one season like here,so even as large as that was-it wouldnt come close to lasting through 8 months of drought-even if for the yard alone.

I save rainwater for watering my tomato seedlings and have already used it all up. If I was also using it to water my fruit trees, garden, and lawn I would have used it up in one day. If you had 2400 square feet of garden and lawn that you wanted to put an inch of water on that would take 200 cubic feet of water or 1496 gallons of water, or 27 55 gallon drums worth of water, just to water it once. I can see saving rainwater just to water house plants or seedlings you are starting, but in the arid west forget about being able to save enough to make a dent in your landscape watering needs.

I've done some calculations - if I could collect the rainwater from my roof I could water my very low water use garden - but I'd need a 5000 gallon cistern.

Hm, a drip system on a lawn doesn't sound right to me, as you'd get no coverage, and it would be tough to mow. Can you clarify?

I'd say most single family homes with average sized lots and some lawn would easily use several hundred gallons a day, as I remember growing up in the 80s during the drought and we were limited to 280 gallons a day for a family of four, forcing our lawns to die and our pool to go substantially dry. Normal summer water consumption was close to 1000 gallons a day for all the irrigation, pool, and personal use. I don't see how someone could water an entire lawn on so little water, and only twice a week.

I would definitely agree that the water collected from a rain barrel wil be used up in a couple of weeks.

Someone has an ad on the Orange County Craigslist for six 100 gallon rain barrels for $10 each. But you would need a pump to get the water out.

I live in the Oakland hills and last year investigated both a graywater system as well as a rainwater (roof runoff) system with a vendor who installs both. I will not recommend them as they seem to have disappeared entirely, being a small 2-man operation.

Graywater:
- The biggest problem is access to existing plumbing. It might be easy or it might be like our 1940 house - virtually impossible. If the main plumbing lines are easily accessed, it's about $3K install. If you've got to break into walls to get to the pipes, figure it's straight up from the base price.

- You'll need a place about 4x4, easily accessible, to put a 75-gallon tank. It will connect to a sand pond, about 2x4 or thereabouts. You'll have to clean it out once a year or the system will gum up, replacing the old with fresh new sand. What do you do with the old sand? Beats me, but you'll need someone with a pickup truck to haul the gunk out.

- A small pump is used to keep the water flowing from the tank to the pond. The pond usually just has a faucet on the side so you can hook up a hose and start watering.

- You'll have to switch to BIO-COMPATIBLE soaps and cleaning agents. Bio-degradable isn't sufficient. Make sure you check the prices of the few brands available, some of them aren't cheap.

Best source for info on graywater systems you can install yourself is Gray Water Guerrillas, a local organization dedicated to saving water. Link is below.

Rainwater catch system:
- Although the graywater was a no-go, our house actually has the absolutely perfect siting, architecture, and gutter setup for a rainwater catch system. I was told by the rep that many houses are not set up well with their existing gutter system for retrofitted rainwater catch systems. He showed me that none of our neighbors, for example, could install such a system without considerable modifications. To redo your existing gutters is a good-sized job, unless you're a contractor.

- In an average year (which we've had in Oakland) the system will catch approximately 15,000 gallons of water.

- This leads to the part that stopped us - you'll need about an 8x8x8' space, minimum - 12' is better - to install one of the cisterns, which cost about $3K. The only logical place to put the cistern unfortunately would eliminate our prized mature Meyer Lemon and worse, be visible from not only our house, but three neighbors' houses as well...one large eyesore! It would also completely cut off access on that side of the house (you can currently walk entirely around the house without obstruction).

- If we had thought about this when we first bought the house and were gut-remodeling it, it would have been easy to site the cistern slightly further downhill and hide it entirely from sight. Unfortunately, all the landscaping was completed five years ago and is mature and beautiful. Digging it up now would be a major hassle, plus the cost of re-landscaping.

In the end, we did neither because the payback was not there. Only general info applies as each situation is unique. Unfortunately, there are almost no vendors who do this since it was, until very recently, illegal in CA. Most of the information available is the DIY kind, or geared toward commercial installations. There is very little help for the individual homeowner who doesn't feel confident in his/her DIY skills, sadly. With time this might certainly change, though.

You may want to check out this article on rainwater catchment systems - perhaps the local office of ARCSA might be able to refer you to a catchment system installer:
http://www.waterefficiency.net/the-latest/drought-rain-harvesting.aspx

Here is a link that might be useful: The Gray Water Guerrillas

>I didn't realize the east coast gets that continual rain to replenish tanks. And I was under the assumption (and from watching shows on Sundance channel) that water catchment is common in the Southwest which has long dry summers.In the Southwest, the rainfall peak coincides with the hottest time of the year. Most rain there falls in July, August and September. It's climates with a Mediterranean precipitation pattern that are problematic. The period of greatest need for water and the period of greatest precipitation are diametrically opposite on the West Coast. Even areas that get in excess of 70" of rain a year can experience critically low water supply in summer.

i live on southern cal, and have a rainwater system, only lasts about 2 months of dry period, but the water from the AC also gets dumped in there, so am hoping that that will help a bit replenishing the barrels during the summer.

I think it's worth collecting and saving rainwater--no, it probably won't water the whole garden all dry-season, but you may be able to collect enough to keep your water use below your allotment. Every drop helps! If you don't collect it, it just runs back into the ocean--and what good does that do?

I saved several thousand gallons this year and distributed it to the garden such that I've been able to delay turning the irrigation system back on for several weeks. That's water and money saved!

Hm, a drip system on a lawn doesn't sound right to me, as you'd get no coverage, and it would be tough to mow. Can you clarify?

Netafim is one company that makes a drip system specifically for lawns.

I installed 4 5,000 gal tuna can on my uncles property 2 summers ago in central CA and as i recall they are pretty cheap. I think it was about $1500 each delivered.

Really depends how "into it" you want to get. If it were me, I would rent a backhoe and dig a 10x10x5' deep hole, bury the tank so just the lid is exposed, and then install a pump inside. Plum all your irrigation to a valve where you can choose city water, or stored water and then have at it.

Only thing is i am not sure if those tanks are rated for the pressure of being buried, they are normally used above ground.

We used to have some pretty big underground concrete tanks too, but I think the cost of concrete these days would be cost prohibitive. They were holding about 60,000gal of run off water that we used to water the lawn and hedges.