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peachymomo_gw

How do you decide on a size for a new patio?

peachymomo
12 years ago

When I was ready to buy my first home I searched long and hard to find something in my price range that had a small house on a large lot. I've been here three years now and I'm happy but very ready to change the landscape. I'm struggling with choosing a size for our patio, I would like it to be nice and large but I'm afraid of making it too big. I was thinking that since our house is small and our backyard is large it would make sense to have a big patio but I don't want it to be overwhelming, and of course the bigger it is the more it will cost.

Our house is 2,210 square feet (27' x 70', + a 16' x 20' addition) and our backyard is about 14,300 (~130' long by 110' wide.) I used hoses to outline the area that 'felt' right to me for the patio and calculated that it would be approximately 1,200 square feet. That would more than double our living space and I think it would be really cool, but I've never designed a landscape before and I'm worried that it won't look good. Although while researching I found a quote saying: 'To err is human, but it is better to do it on the side of too large than too small.' And that made me feel a bit more confidant.

So what do you think, is 1,200 square feet too large? Am I over thinking the whole thing and I should just relax? I really want to have a wonderful backyard that gets used a lot and I think the patio will be the most important part of the design. I want to have a BBQ area and a dining and relaxing area, but I don't think we will have a spa or fire pit or anything like that.

Comments (14)

  • peachymomo
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Sorry, not 'more than double' but 'more than half again as much'... there is no easy way to say that :P

  • ggarner
    12 years ago

    1,200 feet sounds pretty large to me, but it really depends on what you want to do with the space, how large your family is, how it is shaped, do you do a lot of entertaining, etc.
    1200 feet could be 30x40, or 20x60, what sort of shape are you talking about?

    I think if you mapped it out with a garden hose and it looks good to you, then go for it.

    Are you planning on using pavers, concrete, wood?

  • peachymomo
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    ggarner: I was thinking of a semi-circle, the majority of the space would be in front of the kitchen/dining room but part would stretch around the addition and become the firewood area, eliminating the need for a separate path. Carrying wood across muddy ground wasn't fun last winter and I want to fix that problem. The material I use will be dependent on how much it will cost, flagstone would be my first choice but I decided it was probably out of the question once I realized how big I wanted the patio to be. So now I'm thinking along the lines of stamped and stained concrete.

    bahia: I don't usually entertain on a grand scale, but I do have a large extended family and would like to have an occasional big bbq party. I've been thinking a lot about how best to use the space we have, what we can do is largely limited by the two big oak trees that are currently the only feature we have in our yard. I was thinking of dividing the space into a patio close to the house where we could entertain and relax, and a meadow for the whole rest of the back with some mixed screening shrubs around the edges. One big patio feels right to me and I've always enjoyed saving up for big purchases, so I don't want to let the expense stand in the way. But would it look bad if the patio was too large for the house? I value your opinion because I've seen the pictures you posted and they were beautiful. Most of the advice I've found online was aimed at people who had a small yard and needed to maximize their space, I have a large yard and don't want to overwhelm my humble, ranch-style house.

    Thank you for your advice!

  • bahia
    12 years ago

    The size is usually in some relation to the intended uses and how much space each use requires. I personally would tend to feel a patio or terrace of the size you seem to want would be excessive, but it might be quite pleasant if it was mostly shaded by overhanging large trees that might scale it down. Post a picture with a plotted layout or better description.of your layout if you desire a more constructive feedback/reply. Choice of materials makes a huge difference as well, with a large expanse of gravel or dg more inviting than the same size area in flagstone at the size of your house footprint, in my opinion...

  • ggarner
    12 years ago

    For comparison sake, I think my house is roughly about the same size, and it sits on a little less than 1/2 an acre. The house is L shaped and I have a rectangular brick patio that is something like 25 wide by 35-40 long, that fills in 2 sides of the L. This is a decent size for us, housing a patio table with umbrella and seating for 5 or 6, a covered seating area with room for 5 or 6 more, and then another loveseat type patio piece which sits on the edge and can have another 2 people sit at it. In the summer we use the outdoor dining area more than the actual dining room in the house, so close proximity to the house is very nice.

    I also have a pool with a path that goes back to it, and I recently expanded that area to add a barish type table with sink etc, and to house my santa maria grill, and my smoker. I personally like having the 2 different areas because it breaks up the space and makes it feel like it is more open with lots more plants and grass around.

    You may consider shrinking down your semi circle, and adding a path out to another portion of the yard where you can have an additional seating area just to break up the paved space. I have my BBQ's and smoker set off on the far side and the prevailing wind blows the smoke away from the seating area, because people tend to not enjoy getting blasted by smoke when there is an event going on.

  • peachymomo
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    I did some drawing and took some pictures. Eventually we plan on adding a second story over the garage and addition and that will change the look of the house a bit and might make the large patio fit better. A friend of my dh who has been a contractor for 30+ years advised cutting off the roof extension and building a large pergola and I really liked the idea so I drew that in as well.

    {{gwi:544347}}

    The shed in this picture is slated to be torn down, hopefully soon. I put the hose in place to show where I would like the edge of the patio to be.
    {{gwi:544348}}

    This long eve blocks the view from the house and is too low for tall people to walk under, I think that is one of the main reasons our friend (who is over 6' tall) wanted to cut it off so badly.
    {{gwi:544349}}

    Our nice, big oak trees.
    {{gwi:544350}}

    I love the sound of your patio ggarner, I have been struggling with the problem of where to put the bbq because prevailing winds come from the west and blow towards the house. I think I will have to try cooking in a few different places and see which works best.

    Thanks for the input!

  • hosenemesis
    12 years ago

    The pictures really help.

    I think the patio is too big. I would end it at the corner of the garage. Depending on the style you prefer, you may want to go with more wiggles- kidney shaped, for instance, or with a series of rectangles with plants in between to avoid the parking-lot feel.

    One good way to determine how much patio you need is to set up your tables and chairs and bbqs etc. and wander around for a few days. Make sure you put something where the patio roof posts will be. You may find that if you have the patio cover, the posts will prevent you from having chairs and tables there, so there's really no point in having the patio extend much beyond that, it's just wasted cement.

    This is the problem with my patio. Posts right in the middle of it. Not good planning.

    My dad has a huge flagstone patio that he laid himself- very beautiful when you look down, very uninviting otherwise. Everyone gravitates to the little patio with the cover over it at the other end of the house.

    You can always add more patios later. I think it would be nicer to have paths than big stretches of pavement going around the garage over to the firewood area.

    That long eave is a problem, and it's a good idea to shorten it. Is there any reason you would end the patio roof halfway over the door? You may want to consider extending the pergola over the door. I think you should also have at least a bit of solid roof extending out over the door.

    I look forward to seeing what you do with this beautiful space. Good luck!
    Renee

  • bahia
    12 years ago

    Actually your proposed layout looks good for the yard and house, and the arbor against the house will be a nice addition. I'd be inclined to have some groupings of large wine barrel sized pots at the edges to give a nice transition to the lawn. Stick with the large semicircle patio, it works well with the house layout.

  • hosenemesis
    12 years ago

    Ha ha ha! Bahia imagined a kidney shaped patio and blanched.
    I'd go with his recommendation.
    Renee

  • peachymomo
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Bahia: I'm glad you like my plan, now I have the confidence to move forward with it. I haven't even started thinking about what to do once we have the patio finished, but I think large pots would be great and wine barrels would probably look good with the informal theme.

    Renee: I think I will be able to make it more inviting by breaking up the space with furniture and plants so that it seems less like a big parking lot. I do plan on having the pergola cover the door - that was just bad drawing, I want it to be as wide as the current extended part of the roof.

    Thank you very much everyone! I will post pictures when it is done, hopefully you won't have to wait too long.

  • hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
    12 years ago

    Peachy, I think your patio is the right size in relation to your house footprint and the size of the backyard, and I love the curve, it softens the square lines of the house.

    You might want to consider using some sort of permeable surface, which will help that ginormous and gorgeous oak tree, as its drip line will probably be under part of your proposed patio. Consider pavers. My patio that wraps around my house and includes a small pool and outdoor kitchen is at least this big if not bigger, and is all pavers. But, we spend about 50% of our time outside, so we use every square inch of it. Plus we have an additional smaller 16' x 16' paver patio with a cover on our lower yard level. So, I'm all for large patios if you do a lot of outside living. Using permeable hardscape products allows the rain to soak down and reach feeder roots of the plants and trees that are close to the edge of your hardscape, and prevent wasted runoff. Or at least a combination of hardscape materials so it's not just this monolithic concrete slab, which I think you would not be happy with.

    I like the idea of pots and wine barrels on the patio, or maybe you can incorporate planters within the space. In that consideration, also think about how you might run water to those areas, so you're not stuck hand watering them. Since you're still in the planning stages, and have the opportunity to incorporate things like water lines, low voltage lines, gas lines, etc., this is the time to do it. Think about whether you want a built in barbeque now or down the road, and run your gas lines and stub them out for now, so you don't have to break up concrete down the road to lay gas, electrical or water (I have water at my outdoor kitchen too, it's super great to have a little prep sink!)

    So, take your time, get the "ultimate" patio mapped out, then make sure you have all the prep work done ahead of time, so you can work on the additional pieces as your budget allows :-)

    Looking forward to the "patio in progress" photos!

    Patty S.

  • hosenemesis
    12 years ago

    Excellent advice from Patty! I always lay an extra capped pvc line or two before I pour concrete, just in case I need to bury a line some day. I have used them, too!

    I would also like to tell you a bit about Arizona flagstone. It's high maintenance. It's not a dense stone, so moisture can get trapped in it and mildew. The stones can begin to look mottled and dirty when this happens. Pros will recommend sealers to prevent this, but they are expensive and must be reapplied every year or two. Shiny sealers can turn white or pop if moisture gets under them, making a real mess. I would use a denser stone if I had it to do over again.
    Renee

  • hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
    12 years ago

    I wish our patio was larger than it is. There is not enough room to have a dining table large enough to have everyone eat outside--well, there is, if people want to squeeze around chairs, and that's not fun at all. Think about what you want to do out there, if you have furniture how much, what size, etc, and if you want your guests to have to squeeze by your other guests in order to sit down.

    And, if you are a plant nut, there will be pots of plants everywhere, so make sure you have room for those, too. :)