Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
ruby138

Podocarpus (fern pine): a monster?

ruby138
18 years ago

My neighbor told me that my new collection of five podocarpus (the one commonly called fern pine) will grow into five huge trees; not five nice shrubs.

Anybody out there growing podocarpus?

Comments (98)

  • D C
    7 years ago

    I have two about 12 feet tall that I want to transplant. Does anyone know the odds of them surviving? Thanks!

  • kittymoonbeam
    7 years ago

    Heres my podocarpus trimmings tree

  • PRO
    Paradise Nursery
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago


    Although Podocarpus can grow over 20 feet tall, most people simply trim them regularly to keep them from growing tall. I've been able to maintain them as a 8 ft tall hedge for years.

  • Embothrium
    6 years ago

    For poolside planting you only want kinds with large parts like bananas and palms, if you can manage it. Otherwise you end up with little bits floating on the water and being sucked into the filter intake.

  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    In soucal or the bay area Podocarpus gracillor..they can get over 40' with heavy trunk and lower branches. But,like many tree's, they can be hedged to almost any height. Still,pest free and only prone to strong winds snapping the occasional branch - as a tree.

  • Babka NorCal 9b
    6 years ago

    Here in Silicon Valley they can be kept to any height you want. You may end up, after 30 or 40 years with an 8" trunk and 18" of foliage sticking out of it on a 10 foot tree, but it is possible. They don't grow very fast and just prune it once a year and no problem. You can contain it, without too much effort. Just consistancy. Good, GOOD plant.

    -Babka

  • Anissa Bromley
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Careful with this plant to only plant a female. Male plants are off the charts on the Ogren allergen scale and they have cytotoxic pollen linked to cancer. Nurseries are not being responsible pushing this plant without taking care not to sell males


    "In his book 'The Allergy-Fighting Garden,' Thomas Leo Ogren urges ... The male yew (Taxus) and yew pine (Podocarpus) have highly allergenic pollen and rank a 10 out of 10 (the worst score) on Ogren's plant allergy scale."

    .

    "...the leaves, stems, bark, and pollen are cytotoxic. The male Podocarpus blooms and releases this cytotoxic pollen in the spring and early summer. Heavy exposure to the pollen, such as with a male Podocarpus planted near a bedroom window, can produce symptoms that mimic the cytotoxic side effects of chemotherapy."

  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    My 40 year old tree (planted by me in my 20's) coats the yard in pollen. Never felt a thing..even when I happen to decide to prune it here and there at pollen time.

    I've been around plants all my life. Sometimes my hoe or weed eater hitting some white fungus that sprouts in spring in the bay area...makes me cough. Other then that..nothing!

    Those stats are just theory.

  • captainbravo
    5 years ago

    Yeah, these trees surround my house and 80% of them are male... I have seen/felt no adverse reaction that I can discern and I’m extremely sensitive to airborne pollutants. Would definitely need to see more studies to support this theory. I mean, I hate these trees... but I seriously doubt they are poisoning me by their mere presence.

  • we5inelgr
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    It looks to be one person's opinion, Thomas Ogren and what he wrote in his book The Allergy-Fighting Garden. Problem is, he doesn't identify the chemical compound(s) in the Yew/Podocarpus that he claims we need to be careful of and why we need to stay away. 'Cytotoxic' is a very generic, broad range term that requires some specificity. Example, toxicity to cancer cells only is a good thing.

    A quick search produces this scientific source: Int’l Journal of Advances in Chemical Engg., & Biological Sciences (IJACEBS) Vol. 3, Issue 2 (2016) ISSN 2349-1507 EISSN 2349-1515

    That mentions this:

    Podocarpaceae have a minor role in commerce. Nageia nagi, when labeled as Asian bayberry, can legally be sold in the United States of America as an herbal dietary supplement [4]. The seeds are processed into an edible oil that is also used in manufacturing [5]. The young leaves are also edible, but not typically consumed [6]. The conspicuous fleshy reproductive structures (receptacles or epimatium) of Afrocarpus falcatus, Dacrycarpus dacrydioides, Dacrydium cupressinum, Podocarpus elatus, Podocarpus macrophyllus, Podocarpus totara, and Prumnopitys taxifolia are eaten either raw or cooked [6]. Podocarpaceae are also known to have medicinal properties that benefit humans and animals [7, 8]. The receptacles and leaves contain a variety of bio–active compounds such as antioxidants, nordi–terpenes, podocarpic acid, and tatarol (7, 9, 10]. Some of these compounds have antimicrobial, fungistatic, or bacteriostatic properties (7, 11, 12]. Other compounds have cytotoxic properties that may be useful in destroying cancer (13, 14, 15, 16, 17].

    Things are often misrepresented or over stated on the wide web. Could people be allergic to Podocarpus? Of course. People can be allergic to just about anything. People can also die of ingesting too much water. Water of all things. Can You Drink Too Much Water? It can cause the level of salt, or sodium, in your blood to drop too low. That's a condition called hyponatremia.It's very serious, and can be fatal.

    Just because the Podocarpus was found by the scientific and medical communities (many decades ago) to contain Norditerpene dilactones...the compounds that are 'cytotoxic', doesn't necessarily mean the compounds are toxic to normal cells. Some compounds found both in the lab and in nature are specifically toxic to specific types of cells due primarily to what the cell is comprised of. Inhibitors of the Oncogenic Transcription Factor AP-1 from Podocarpus latifoliushas some interesting info regarding how some compounds (Norditerpene dilactones) extracted from the bark of Podocarpus have anti-cancer cell properties.

    So if your concerned about Podocarpus being 'cytotoxic', the best thing to do is don't regularly chew on or ingest the bark.

    Point is, if your allergic to the Podocarpus (or any other plant for that matter), stay away from them. Otherwise, there are probably many other things in life that you should be concerned with regarding your health.

    Cheers!

  • retnavythom
    5 years ago

    I live in San Diego Ca and this seems to be or have been one of the street trees that the city was using at the time in an effort to replace the older larger trees that were lifting up the sidewalks. I can’t imagine that they would be a health hazard to the general public or the city would have come back and yanked them all out... as to the difference between the male and female trees... I can’t really say but with the Hugh amount of fruit that my street tree puts out there has to be at least one very potent male tree around. We have had a tree trimming service in a couple of times since my original post here. It seems to greatly reduce the fruit for a year or two but then fruit production rebounds. In a perfect world I would have the tree removed but it is easy to plant a tree next to the road (as long as it is on the approved tree list). Removing it is a whole other process because it it now the city’s tree. Hey, you learn to live with it.

  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    5 years ago

    I hear people are being told not to eat banana's because they have so much potassium they are radioactive. Medical people saying that!

    I would think the potassium if anything is hard on cancer cells..especially on that cancer men get all through the digestive system.

    I eat more nanners now then ever. Still going...

  • Robert Taylor
    5 years ago

    Podocarpus trees are diecious, meaning there are male and female trees. I have a male Popocarpus tree and it does drop some pollen for a week or two every spring (like many wind-pollinated species, it makes a fair amount of pollen). But it is very much less messy than a female tree would be with all the fruit they drop. My family is rather allergy-prone but we have never found our Podocarpus tree to be particularly allergenic.


    So if you can buy male trees you will be much happier in the long term. Apparently fruit bats like to eat Podocarpus fruits . Maybe parrots too? If habitat value for these species is not a priority for you then go with male trees.

  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Anissa brought back memories. I remember in a hort class 20 years ago a student had asked if Podocarpus leaves were toxic to plants- like Blue gum leaves and roots. The instructor said he hadn't heard of that.

    Well,I know that Podocarpus are tremendous rooters and just plain outcompete other plants for water and nutrients..no natural poisoning needed.

    So this tree gets plenty of bad publicity...but I like them-In the right spot-lol.

  • MBritt L
    4 years ago

    What a great thread, I just read the whole thing... informative, if not a bit confusing with all of the contrasting opinions! Oh, and I had no idea Houzz was around since 2005. Anyhoo... I think I'm going to chance um, buy my 5 and create some privacy from my neighbor's 2 story house. I love they way they look! I am going to stay on top of pruning and not let them become monsters! I think I'll try and get males cause I can deal with pollen once a year, but not too excited about the fruit drop of the female plant. Loved advice from Babka NorCal 9b - pretty much sealed the deal for me! Good luck to all you future potential Podocarpus pruners who make it through the whole thread!

  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    How big can they get? Here is one I took a photo of ( part owner of this photo if houzz wonders) in Hayward. Mine? Pretty darn close..but I can't get a decent photo with my wild plants around it.

    This will do.





  • captainbravo
    4 years ago

    Hahahaaaaa

  • captainbravo
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I love how you read all these posts saying what a nightmare these trees are and then decide to plant them anyway... I would literally pay any amount of money to NOT have these trees in my yard, and at least three people have seconded that view. Yet you are planting them anyway. Lol. I pity the poor soul who buys your house ;)

  • Babka NorCal 9b
    4 years ago

    Excuse me. I have lived in Sunnyvale for over 40 years. My whole subdivision has many varieties of these. probably the maki dwarfs, but also some street trees down Sunnyvale/Saratoga road. Want to hear about a nightmare????? Plant a Japanese maple seedling. (I have 4) NOTHING will grow under those after 40 years for the shallow roots. Come to think of it .....Nothing will grow under much of a tree after 40-50 years around here because of the shallow soil/watering, even the street trees. It is what it is.

    As I said before, many of the homes in my neighborhood have mature podocarpus (different varieties) that were planted right next to the foundations when the subdivision took over an apricot orchard in 1964. I don't see any nightmares around here, with any podocarpus trees. Trees grow. These take better to pruning than most of the others. Most don't take such drastic pruning, but the podos do. They are wonderfully evergreen and respond so well to pruning.


    So, Captain bravo- what trees do you have in your yard? And how long have you had them there? What is YOUR experience with Podos? Got pics? I do.

    -Babka


  • gyr_falcon
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    'Maki' is a cultivar from a different species. It is a different plant, not a dwarf form of the plant referred to in the OP.

  • captainbravo
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Wow, babka... defensive much? As I stated in multiple posts above, I have over a dozen podocarpus, both male and female — along with Japanese maples, Canary Island date palms, king palms, queen palms, ceiba speciosa (which I planted as a 25’ tree with a 75-ton crane), and a half dozen fruit trees — who consistently litter my property with lanceolate leaves that refuse to decompose and are impossible to rake or blow, then drop thousands upon thousands of useless cherry-sized fruit to rot everywhere. Again, NIGHTMARE.

  • DD Scorpion
    4 years ago

    Right now I'm using a jackhammer as the first step to replace a retaining wall that was pushed over by 40 foot tall podacarpus trees which were originally intended to be small privacy hedges next to the wall. The owner of the podacarpus accidentally failed to trim the podacarpus hedge in this area and it grew out of control. Yes podacarpus is a high maintenance nightmare.

  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    4 years ago

    Those fruit are good food for wild parrots I read. Unfortunately,none in my part of the bay area.

  • captainbravo
    4 years ago

    It’s funny... we have thousands of wild parrots in my area and I have never once seen them in those trees. Wish they would eat the fruit because then at least there would be some benefit!

  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    4 years ago

    I'm doing a redoing of my small backyard and had to dig into years of Podocarpus gracilior leaves..some places 12" thick,thus answering the how do they eliminate plants around them question? No poisonous root system..just tons of leaves and they virtually don't decay.

    Because the leaves are so small,I started using a leaf blower for that 30' x 15' deep yard years ago.

    Tomorrow I use the chainsaw and pole saw for some low pruning. I sort of..no ,not love them, but kind of like them. The 40 year old trunks have character,one of the two trees has a nice S curve in the trunk.

    But, I would not tell anybody to plant them as garden trees unless you are into African biomes gardens. Or just want space to fill and want an evergreen that once (DEEPLY over the years) rooted,needs no watering in summer.

  • HU-692220769
    4 years ago

    Hi all, I recently had my mature Podocarpus pruned and I fear they did a hack job. I actually really like this tree, it’s mature and provides a lot of shade and looked really good but im just hoping the pruning cuts dont make it grow back strangely or not at all. Ive heard these trees are hardy and used to being trimmed into shapes and topiary so perhaps it can handle it? What do you all think?




  • captainbravo
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Pic would be helpful... I’ve seen them pruned into horrifying stubs and they come back looking gorgeous. That’s what I should do to mine. Lol.

  • Janessa James-Duane
    4 years ago

    Basically all the cuts look like this one and there are many cuts like this higher up too.

  • Janessa James-Duane
    4 years ago

    Reasons for the pruning job to begin with was that branches were touching the roof and I was told it was a hazard to the roof. I think the roots are also starting to lift part of the pavement next to the house. Previous owner let these trees get really big.

  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    That's just a minor pruning for these trees. The only time cuts won't fill right back in is if the pruned heavily parts are in shade. But a pruning like in the photos? Won't even be noticed in a few months.

  • Janessa James-Duane
    4 years ago

    I’m glad to hear that. Talked to an arborist today and he said the same thing. He said I could leave the stub cuts the way they are and new growth should sprout from them. He said ash trees and other types of trees he’d recommend cutting back to the trunk to fix it but not with podocarpus because they typically withstand the stub cuts. Sounds like you would agree with this assessment.

  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    4 years ago

    Podocarpus will sprout fine from stubs. Cutting close to the trunk is also fine..pruning so that the branches get lengthy? Is a big mistake. They will get heavy at the tips and whole large branches will snap in a wind. I learned that for sure. As a matter of fact..those TWO branches I did like that to make a lighter shade underneath? Snapped in a winter storm and then acted like sails..flying on to my roof.

    Its best to remove a whole branch and not "thin" this way.

  • vivian_meyer86
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I HATE mine. I‘ve got about twelve of them and want then removed. They drop leaves daily. The largest one is in my courtyard and although it’s a beautiful tree it drops leaves all over my courtyard and outdoor staircase. I can’t stand it!! The leaves are dry and crunchy and make my staircase slippery. I’m going to have it removed soon. The other ones blow leaves into my pool despite being 30 feet away. I would never plant one of these trees...ever. Namaste.

  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    4 years ago

    How true Viv. I'm resigned to only seeing my little court clean when I airblow it. Hours later?..a few more leaves .Never ends and would be a holy terror over a pool. The fruit are not great either..making loud noisy sounds bouncing off the roofs of my house and the neighbors.

  • vivian_meyer86
    4 years ago

    I'm having the courtyard tree removed tomorrow. It's sad to see it go but the trunk is a few inches from the stucco wall of my staircase and my walkway is cracking from the roots. I looked at old pictures and it's grown six feet in three years. If it grows any bigger I'll be rebuilding my staircase and that's just not an option. I was torn because it's so beautiful but I just can't keep sweeping my courtyard and stairs daily. I'm also needing to cut all large trees away from my home because of the fires in my area. I don't understand how anyone could be sold on a tree that drops hundreds of leaves daily. Good luck with yours. I only have eleven more to go after this one...lol...at least they're far from the house though (-;


  • Dip P
    3 years ago

    I’m exactly same situation as described by Vivian. The tree is there for how long I don’t know. It grown to 15-20ft. Its roots are growing vigorously and destroyed my backyard concrete. I’m planning to remove the tree now. Even if I redo the concrete, I know again in 5yr it will grow and destroy new concrete.
    Not too worried about falling leaves though as it’s much better than other trees on that aspect.

  • odilemerriman
    3 years ago

    I just planted over 250 podocarpus around my property for privacy. It was recommended by a really good nursery in the area. Reading these reviews now is making me a bit worried. Spent a lot of money buying plants that were 12-15’ tall at planting. About 70 of them are right inside a retaining wall. The nursery said their root system is not big so shouldn’t damage the wall. That seems to be the opposite of what I’m reading here... Yikes. They look good though.

  • Dip P
    3 years ago

    @odilemerriman Did they say how tall the mature trees are going to be ? Check with the nursery once if these are of any hybrid gene which would limit at say 6ft.

  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    If you get the fruiting females? I can't tell you how many times I've stepped on those hard round fruits and they rolled me...I've fallen once or twice and other times,catching my balance sent a jolt to my lower back. These really are estate or park tree's and I had no idea in 1978 that I would still be around to see those little weepy rooted cuttings in nursery CANS (how old is that") and that started so sloooowly for years...would become the immovable force the two are.

    As hedges-fine. As anything tree sized? Not for a home.

  • Dip P
    3 years ago

    Recently I started redoing the concrete on the backyard after removing the tree, and the contractors found large roots. Sorry if these scares you more -





  • DD Scorpion
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    @odilemerriman 70 podocarpus right inside a retaining wall, wow. Last summer we just finished re-building our retaining wall which was destroyed (leaning at a 45 degree angle) by just 3 neighbor podocarpus trees. I can't imagine what 70 of them would do. On the positive side of things, it will take a couple decades for them to get big enough where it will shift your whole landscape concrete. What I would recommend is to have a narrow trench dug right next to your retaining wall and install a plastic root barrier (the larger height of plastic root barrier, the better). The plastic root barrier should help steer the roots away from the concrete. Otherwise the roots can go right through the porous cracks in the concrete over time and exert tremendous hydraulic force to break it apart. By taking this extra step with the root barrier while the trees are still very young, you may not have to worry about it.

  • retnavythom
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    It seems that the podocarpus was the street tree of choice in the 80s/90s in San Diego. In my neighborhood we have a very rolling sidewalk experience do the the roots. It seems like the tree of choice these days is the jacaranda and/or the yellow jacaranda. Online it say that it can grow to 50 feet tall. I just know we have to have our podocarpus trimmed back every few years because of growth and it really slows down fruit product for a year or two as it recovers. After the last trimming we filled two full size garbage cans with the swept up fruit.

  • Robert Taylor
    3 years ago

    Here is the CA state Champion Afrocarpus gracilior tree, in Alameda Park, Santa Barbara, CA. I took this picture in 2019. It is about 87ft tall with a canopy diameter of about 68ft. The trunk is over 4ft in diameter at breast height. It is about 100 years old. It is neither a "monster" nor a "nightmare". It is a happy, healthy, beautiful, drought-tolerant, disease-resistant shade tree that just happens to require more space at maturity than most residential yards have.


    If you plant a row of 1-gallon Afrocarpus container stock to make a hedge in a narrow space then they will oblige you handily in just a few years. But it will be on you to prune them every year from now until forever and keep them in the allowable space, because this is what they will try to become if allowed to grow unchecked. You might do well to remove every other tree after a few years to give the remaining ones more room to fill in. Removing the whole hedge and starting over every 25 years or so might be a reasonable thing to plan for. If you want a hedge that will remain bush-sized then plant bushes, not baby trees with leafy dreams of being a glorious 100 foot tall urban forest. And don't call them "monsters" if you break the pact and drop the ball on maintenance.


    If you have room to let one grow for several decades and begin to fulfill its genetic destiny then you will have a gorgeous big specimen tree while you are still young enough to enjoy the shade. I have a 75 year old male tree growing 3 feet from my house (yes, that is closer than I would recommend) and it has not caused any appreciable damage to my foundation. In fact, it has helped keep my house from slipping downhill like most of the other houses on my street are doing. Thanks, big tree!



  • Robert Taylor
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Here are pictures (and published dimensions) of 3 recognized heritage Afrocarpus gracilior trees in southern CA. Pictures in this lineup are adjusted to a common scale so their heights relative to each other are true to life. Please notice that all three of these are growing within a few feet of a sidewalk that is in good condition and is not noticeably pushed up or otherwise impacted by tree roots. The Alameda Park tree is about 100 years old. The ages of the other two are not recorded, but are presumably a couple decades younger than that.

    Two of those three heritage trees are planted in a narrow space between a sidewalk and a homeowner's hardscape. And they're not pushing up the hardscape or the sidewalk much. One seems to have cracked a fragile retaining wall built a couple feet from the trunk. You can see lots more detail of the groundscape looking at those addresses in these Google Street View links:

    https://www.instantstreetview.com/@32.69535,-117.182748,85.27h,-7.53p,2.8z

    https://www.instantstreetview.com/@33.529012,-117.768254,3.65h,14.37p,0.27z



  • gyr_falcon
    3 years ago

    There is a difference between planting beside a sidewalk and a large open grassy area and planting the narrow area between a sidewalk and a homeowner's hardscape.

  • Robert Taylor
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    As long as we're sharing pictures, here are some of the biggest Afrocarpus trees in the world! They are in Outeniqua National Park in South Africa. Their estimated ages range from 650 - 880 years old. They range in height from 120 - 150 feet, with canopy diameters ranging from 89 - 108ft. Their trunks range in diameter from 5.6 - 8.3 ft. Troops of baboons sleep in them at night. If you are ever down that way then be sure to go and see them! Google "Outeniqua National Park yellowwood big trees" for more amazing pictures, videos, and information about the world's greatest old growth Afrocarpus trees. In time they can get big like CA coast redwoods do. I don't know if they can get this big in CA's climate or not. But they might. That's a question that will take 800 years of dedicated horticulture to answer.

    This is what those little 1-gallon Afrocarpus sprouts at the garden store all aspire to become when they grow up. Role models for Ents! Now if you plant a bunch of these in that narrow space between your driveway and the neighbor's house and then fail to prune and maintain them in future decades then I guess you'll get what you deserve. If you want a hedge that you can plant and then forget for the rest of your life, then there are lots of other better (smaller!) choices for plant material. But please let's not hear any more trash talk about these glorious trees. If your yard lacks room for a tree this fabulous then maybe don't plant one.









  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    3 years ago

    I have two planted from one gallon metal cans in 1978. I would say they are about 40'. I do prune lower branches to let some light in. Or,to keep from growing over a tall Howea and two King Palms. After that,they grow where they want.

    Hate the seeds like wooden marbles. If you can get one that does not set seed- some sterile cultivar,you've made huge headways and made your life easier.

  • Robert Taylor
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I agree about the fruits for sure! My male tree has produced about two fruits in 20 years. Must have had a stray hermaphroditic flower. These trees are dioecious, meaning there are male and female trees. No need for a sterile tree. Just get a male one. It will release a bunch of pollen for about one week every spring and then it's done for the year. My family has lots of sniffly allergies but no one is allergic to our tree at all.

    Seems to me if you don't thin the canopy out a little bit from time to time then these trees get very dark inside, with some deadwood and many layers of foliage that create very dark shade. Street trees on city land often end up looking like this if they receive no maintenance at all. I've also seen them lion-tailed and overly laced out by tree trimmers. Some gentle middle ground makes for the most attractive tree to my eye.

  • Steven Costa
    3 years ago

    I’ve got three of these Podocarpus female trees on my property. they are a giant pain, especially the two near my swimming pool. They drop leaves in Winter and Summer. They also drop fruit that gets into my pool and clogs the pool sweep, immobilizing it. I’m getting an estimate to have two of them removed. Enough is enough!

  • Robert Taylor
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Yes, if I had a pool and Afrocarpus trees then I think I would remove them too. I wonder what tree species actually drop the very least leaf litter? All trees drop some (except for plastic trees, and I do not endorse them). If you value the shade then you might replace the Afrocarpus with some tree that retains its leaves almost forever (Maybe a monkey puzzle tree?). Check with your local agricultural extension folks for advice on this question and you could grow old with a tree that works better with your pool. Please let us know if you learn things about trees that don't make much leaf litter. A number of folks here would probably like to know about that. Good luck with yours!