Robert,
Are you thinking in terms of outdoor or greenhouse cultivation of camellias? If outdoor cultivation is what you have in mind, you will have to be mindful of a camellia variety's ability to perform satisfactorily in your climate zone. It's doubtful, for example, that 'Alba Plena,' which is cohsidered the oldest camellia in cultivation in Western gardens, would perform well in Zone 7. 'Alba Plena' blooms early, but the plant is susceptible to winter injury when exposed to low temperatures.

To get an idea of the old, standard varieties that were popular in the early to mid-twentieth century, I would advise you to consult Dr. H, Harold Humes' works on the genus _Camellia_: (1.) _Camellias: Kinds and Culture_ (New York: The Macmillan Company, 1951) and (2.) _Camellias in America_. Revised edition. (Harrisburg, PA: J. Horace McFarland Company, 1955). Hume's works are authoritative and lavishly illustrated. You'll find them in the collections of most research libraries and larger public libraries. They can also be purchased at modest cost from antiquarian book dealers on the Internet. The American Book Exchange (ABE) is a good place to find copies of these books available for sale (www.abe.com).

_Camellia Nomenclature_ and _The Supplement_ are essential resources for the identification of introductory dates of camellia cultivars, whether historic, antique, or recent. You can purchase copies from the Southern California Camellia Society.

Years ago, almost everyone beginning a camellia collection started that collection with a 'Pink Perfection.' Among my favorite historic varieties are 'Governor Mouton,' aka 'Angelica' or 'Aunt Jetty'; 'Lady Clare,' aka 'Pink Empress"; 'Professor Sargent'; 'Magnoliaeflora'; and 'Lady Vansittart.'

Robert,
I am the Chairman of the propagation committee of The Great Gardens of America Preservation Alliance. We are dedicated to the preservation of older varieties. We are travelling the globe collecting cuttings from ancient camellia varieties. We would like to help. Contact me. camelliaman@msn.com

Robert, Many of these older varieties are outstanding, and in many cases better than lots of new varieties being introduced today. There is a photo album on Camellia Web that was taken at Magnolia Gardens with images of many older varieties. Check the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Magnolia Gardens Camellias on CamelliaWeb

some of my favorites include 'c.m. wilson', 'r.l. wheeler', 'don mac' and 'magnoliaeflora'. these would not be considered ancient cultivars except for 'magnoliaeflora', originally known as 'hagorama', but all garden-worthy subjects to me and each one has a different form of flower.
{{gwi:516828}} 'c.m. wilson' {{gwi:516170}} 'don mac'

Here is a link that might be useful: 'magnoliaeflora' at wintergarden

I don't want this post to sound rude, but I'm still at a loss as to how the use of the word _ancient_ has become acceptable in the description of cultivars that are, at best, simply historic varieties or vintage cultivars. To my way of thinking the word _ancient_ is correctly applied to the Egyptian pyramids or the Acropolis or to a few specimens of the Bristlecone pine, but not to a camellia, unless the cultivar is known to be a few thousand years old.

I guess I was referring to some of the "species" as ancient...like c. japonica, c. sasanqua, et al. Then, the historic varieties would be those that have stood the test of time and/or are featured in older literature (perhaps hundreds of years old).

I'm really such a newbie to camellias, that I should have prefaced my post. I'm used to hanging out at the Antique Rose Forum, and I know the etiquette there a bit better.

Please excuse my misuse of "ancient."

Robert

i take robert's term to mean some of the oldest named cultivars relative to the recording of such names, that's all. we are talking a couple of hundred years in "camellia-time" between 'magnoliaeflora' and 'c.m. wilson', for example. ancient does mean very old and i reckon an age of a few hundred years is very old. ;-)