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susiewantsroses

First Year For Canna

susiewantsroses
14 years ago

We are new to Canna plants in our yard in Dallas TX area. This summer we have already enjoyed the most beautiful color show. Now of course I find out about the virus because the leaves started turning brown. I also know that I have an assortment of insects because of the leaves that are 'lacy' from being eaten. I also saw some white fuzzy worms this morning. I did not add insecticides because of my two small dogs that nibble on the tomato plants planted at the base of the Canna.

My question is "Can I just keep cutting off the ugly leaves for the rest of the season and allow the Canna to come back year after year even with the virus? If they continue giving us the early summer floral show then I love them even with the virus. Will the virus spread to my other plants like rose bushes?

These Pics were taken before they started looking weakened.

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Comments (15)

  • stephanie_kay
    14 years ago

    As for as I know canna virus will not pass on to Roses or other plants outside of canna's.
    Your canna's are just going to end up looking worse and cutting off all the leaves will eventually leave you will only flower stocks. That cannot look too pretty.
    IMHO I would dig the canna's up and let the soil in the area sit for awhile and then start from again.
    Me, being from the north I have to dig mine up every fall anyway.

    Stephanie

  • green_thumb_guy
    14 years ago

    I don't see a whole lot wrong with your cannas. From this perspective, I can really tell if you have any canna virus. The brown blotches that do show up don't seem to be the same as what I have seen in infected cannas; but I'm no expert on it either.

    The leaves look like they suffered a burn or damage. I would remove those leaves and enjoy your cannas tear after year.

    If you are able to take a closer picture of the areas of concern in your canna leaves, it would help to tell determine if you are infected.

    For now, I would enjoy them.

    :)

  • canna2grow
    14 years ago

    Susie,
    I believe your most pressing problems are insect related and unfortunately the cannas are planted a little too close. At this early stage of growth in your long season there is simply too much competition for the available sunlight and nutrients. The insects (particularly the lesser canna leaf roller) will decimate the leaves. The only practical way to combat the insect problem would be with good systemic insecticide.
    The virus issue does not seem to be readily apparent in the photos and typically any canna virus is highly unlikely to affect your other plants. We may need to see updated photos later but it appears that you have been satisfied with the results to date (except for the insect damage).
    Consider removing the entire single stalk of canna that has completed its blooming cycle. Cut it off a couple of inches above the ground. This will open up that area for more new growth and also remove the damaged leaves.
    Even if you are able to over-winter your cannas in the ground you will greatly enhance the quality of your plants if you severely thin their numbers each spring. Each single rhizome needs a spacing of roughly two to three feet between plants to start the season.
    Remember that cannas are heavy feeders and need both fertilizer and water on a regular basis.
    You really do need to address the insect issue because it is not going away by itself.
    Regards,
    Kent

  • abutilon
    14 years ago

    Your cannas look really nice.
    I would not worry about disease at this point .. lol
    Love your 'Robert Kemp'. That one should bring you lots of hummingbirds. You are doing great for your first to grow cannas.
    Your "found" garden ornaments are really neat, too :-)

  • susiewantsroses
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    All of our Canna tubers (?) were given to us from three different homes. We had no idea that they would get so huge. We planted them in Compost. I have just started to feed them some fertilizer but watering has been consistant due to an irrigation system. I do indeed get Hummingbirds. If I give them a systemic fertilizer/pest control, will the pest control transfer to the hummingbirds, bees, wasps,?

    Everybody here in DFW TX leaves the Cannas in the ground year around.

    I did not know the names of my Cannas. Which ones are the Robert Kemp? The ones with the teacup feeders or the ones with the bottle tree?

    I have learned a lot of 'Folk Art Garden Decorating" over at the Garden Junk Forum.

    I'll get some updated pictures because they are much bigger than that now.

    Thank you all for helping me.

  • susiewantsroses
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Canna doctors help!!!!!!! : )

    Here are some close-ups of the leaf issues.
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    I found these white moths, some black stuff inside some of the rolled leafs, and white furry worms.
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  • gardenlover25
    14 years ago

    Your canna plant looks so healthy, although they were in the small space they seem growing so well and the flowers are also beautiful. The spots that I see in the leaves may because of too much exposure to sunligt.

  • canna2grow
    14 years ago

    As I stated in my previous post, the primary problem is the "lesser canna leaf roller". The night flying moth lays eggs and stitches the leaves into tight cigar shaped pattern. This prevents contact insecticides from effectively controlling the insect larva. The larva works in this rolled up leaf and deposits the black "dung" while eating away at the leaf.
    Getting control of the problem at this stage is more difficult but given time and a good systemic insecticide it is very doable. It would have been much better if you were to have started an effective spray program early in the season before attracting humming birds etc.
    In order to minimize the effect to your hummers and bees, consider applying the insecticide during the least active time of the desirable visitors. This would likely be a dusk or late evening. Night flying moths are part of the problem! Most systemic insecticides become less dangerous to casual contact after the pesticide is dried and have a REI on 12 to 24 hours. Read and follow instructions.
    As Abutilon suggested, your red blooming canna (top photo) is likely C. ÂRobert Kemp and the green leaf orange is likely C. ÂOrange BeautyÂ. I am not sure about the green leaf yellow and the bronzed leafed red may be C. ÂKing HumbertÂ.
    You can have a really nice display bed of canna if you can control the insect problem!!!
    Regards,
    Kent

  • susiewantsroses
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thank ya'll so much for your advice and help. I will get out and remove the leaf roller affected stalks. And the chewed up leaves and use a pesticide tonight. I've been using a Bayer Product Systemic Fertilizer/Fungus/Insecticide on my roses. Do you think this would help my Cannas or is there a more preferred product?

  • canna2grow
    14 years ago

    I personally prefer to use an insecticide that contains "acephate" and obtain the very best results by applying as a foliar spray. I believe you will find this available from several sources handling nursery insecticides. You might look for Orthene. You can Google search this name and find information relative to its proper use. Please follow instructions and precautions.
    A timely spray program will give near total control of the major problem you have. You will likely find it useful for many of you plants. If your Bayer product is soil applied, you can likely use both products. Do not mix them together and apply separately as per label instructions!
    Kent

  • susiewantsroses
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Kent,

    I got all of the "leaf roller" stalks cut down. I also cut the chewed up leaves. This experience allowed me to do some "hands on" bug extermination. About a dozen furry little worms 'went to be with the Lord' this morning!!! I totally understand the dangers of using pesticides. I go out with long sleeves, pants, gloves and a respirator. It will look more like I am harvesting honey than just working in my garden. LOL. All of that in 100 degree weather.

    P.S. There are no honey bee hives around here.

  • canna2grow
    14 years ago

    Susie,

    Sounds like you are making a supreme effort. Since we can never be sure who else might read the thread I tend to overemphasize the precautions needed for those that are not willing to read and follow instructions.
    By the way, the little "furry" worms are not related to the lesser canna leaf roller but are (canna) predacious none the less.
    Give your cannas a couple of weeks and I think you will have your worm problem abated and under control. Please post an update with your results. We may be able to get you a possible ID on your yellow canna. Yellows are tough to ID because there are so many look alikes.
    The canna leaf roller in your area can be a season long battle, but are actually easily controlled with a growing season control program.
    Best of luck with your efforts and donÂt get overheated!

    Regards,
    Kent

  • abutilon
    14 years ago

    Susie,
    Not to disagree with Kent, but the liquid Bayer Rose and also the Tree and Shrub work very well on the cannas, too.
    The Tree and Shrub last a long time, too, which I really appreciate as my beds keep me busy.
    All/any of these mentioned will help your cannas fight pests better. Otherwise, your cannas look very healthy.
    Yes, your red is the one I referred as 'Robert Kemp'
    Alice

  • susiewantsroses
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thank you Alice. I spent a lot of time in Lowes and they did not seem to carry any products with the chemical names I was looking in to. (?) My next step was to go to a 'real' nursery and get someone to wait on me!!!!!! LOL Lowes does carry the Bayer products though.

    I fertilized all of them this morning with some miracle grow until I could get a proper program set up.

    I have a 3rd "Robert Kemp" only, canna bed, on the other side of my house. Looks like the leaf rollers 'rolled' on around there too. I'm thinking these TX leaf rollers must be unbelieveably big and strong judging by the tightness of the seams they make and the size of their dung. BTW, I'm wondering if the dung can be composted. LOLOLOLOLOL I have not yet seen one up close. It's time to go googeling!

    Thank you everyone!!!!!!! I will post future pics if I can redeem these guys from, what is now known to me as, "THE DEATH MUNCH MARCH"! Poor Cannas.

  • taz6122
    14 years ago

    susie the Home Depot in my area has an ortho product called 'Systemic Insect Killer' that contains acephate aka isotox and orthene. I could not find it at lowes or any other store in the area.