I usually follow the Gardening in Canada and Far North forums. When I was experimenting with winter sowing, I found the Winter Sowing forum to be more active and responsive. That said, there are questions I posed that needed people more experienced in Far North gardening and seasons to respond. Basically, I had to read between the lines to determine what was actually being said to get direction.

I've had mixed results with winter sowing and I am particularly interested in how well my tomatoes do. Unfortunately, they are being shaded by snap peas and potatoes. I had thought I would be picking rather short peas before I needed to tie up my tomatoes. I was able to give them some space; but, light is a problem.

I am so glad to hear from you, and I can see why you would be more inclined to post on the Far North forum. I am in Ontario and have built a whole garden since starting Winter Sowing in 2006. But I cannot winter sow tomatoes, so we are similar in that way. We have had an awful summer, with rain and cold temperatures so nothing in the veggie. gardens are doing well. My snap peas produced about 3 very mal-formed little things, and my tomatoes and potatoes are starting to take off, both of them being in blossom right now. No matter how hard I try I always end up having things too close together, and that's the case with my tomatoes, zucchini, and potatoes, which are all in one bed. Anyway, things usually sort themselves out.
Northerner.

Right now I have a few of my w/s plants flowering. I have snapdragons, aster 'court jester' & rudbeckia 'Cherokee Sunset'. I also have my usual calendula, geraniums, gazanias, daylilies, 'Prairie Sun' rudbeckia, 'Simply Love Hibiscus and 'Purplishus' Veronica. I always put a few pots in the flower bed (easy way to remember to water and fertilize them!). They contain the usual petunias, marigolds and alyssum for another bright splash of color. Marg

Has anyone had any luck ws four o'clocks? Mine are still quite small and don't look close to flowering. I gave them a place of honour expecting a large plant with plenty of blooms. That's how they are described. :(

This is my third year growing Four O'clocks because I have come to love these plants. However, I do find that they remain quite small and suddenly 'take off' around the middle of August. They do become quite large plants and don't usually flower for me quite late - late August into September. Last year, I did not get seeds from my Broken Colours because they bloomed so late. I don't know what varieties you are growing, but the fuschia ones are the most hardy and bloom first. It seems that the Limelight will be the latest this year. In your zone it may worth it to try starting them indoors.
Northerner.

I agree with Northern "the fuschia ones bloom first".
Last summer my yellow one bloomed late; then I decided to store its tubers indoor. This summer it grew very well and started to bloom from mid July. Sam

Four o'clocks were among the first ws seeds that came up. They had a good head start on the season. Next year I plan to pot up my early starts, just like tomatoes.

Do they all get tubers? I thought they were annuals.

Ljp: Mine get tubers, but I have only dug them once and they were not too big and I discarded them because the seeds grow so easily. This week, my plants have suddenly shot up and are getting large enough to set seed.

Marg: My garden seems much like yours. I now call myself a 'mature' winter sower since this year I have not been running around trying to get things in. I spent the first two years getting all my perennials in and so the gardens are full of colour, even my petunias and nasturtiums are doing well. Thank you so much for the poppy Angel's Choir. I simply love it and have been enjoying it - it has such a long bloom season. I simply sowed a few seeds in a pot quite late - sometime in May and they surprised me. I have not had much luck with poppies, but I had some volunteers from my opium and peony poppy which were quite beautiful. My veggie garden is suffering though - it has been cold and wet and I don't think I'll have a very good harvest. I have fallen in love with Daturas and sowed quite a few varieties this year, but the slugs got the better of most of them. To my surprise, I had a volunteer in a pot in which I was growing a Canna. The Canna never came up, but this Jimson weed came up and produced a beautiful flower. I grew these one year and never got to see the open flower because they open at dawn. I got this pic. one morning when I was up very early - it's really quite pretty for a weed.

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Almost all of my WS was native perennials. Most of them either haven't germinated yet, or are growing very, very slowly. I'm getting quite discouraged. Since this was my first attempt at WS, I'm not sure what to do better or different next year. Even though I used sterile soilless seed starting mix, the pots are soggy wet due to our excessively rainy summer. The containers that haven't germinated I will leave outside for another winter to see if they germinate in the spring.

Ontnative, Winter Sowing perennials can seem discouraging, but even though the seedlings are small, you will be surprised to see what they produce once you put them in ground early enough in the fall to develop a healthy root system. I started WSing for real in 2006 and this year, all my perennials are established and in bloom, and although my annuals did not do well I have lots of colour in the garden with my perennials. Be sure that your pots have ample drainage holes so that they do not remain soggy. Of course, everything you grow will not germinate, but if you start with some native staples (coneflowers, black-eyed-susans, Agastache,monarda's etc.) you will have success. Then you can move on to more challenging ones. I for one do not like growing anything that needs to be babied. It's a good idea to keep un-germinated containers over winter - sometimes that's what it takes. If you wish, I can send you a collection of my seeds for sowing next year. Don't give up!!

Hi,

I'm new here and am really interested in trying winter sowing in zone 3a. Any tips/advice would be greatly appreciated. I read as much as possible about winter sowing and it seems as though some perennials can be grown. If anyone has had success in zone 3, I'd love to hear from you.

Many thanks!

sheila,

It would help if you indicate where you live. Canada 3a covers a wide range of sins.

I tried ws this year for the first time and I'll try it a gain next year. I do cheat and use a walk in container (unheated greenhouse). Some don't consider that ws. However, I had normal flats and the greenhouse and it seemed silly not to use it. An advantage I had was a large quantity of water that effectively kept the greenhouse from going below 0C. It did get to 0C on numerous occasions. The closed containers -- milk jugs for purists -- are supposed to offer protection from frost.

My results were mixed. I think this had to do with seed, soil, and when I planted. Stocks, alysum, marigolds and four o'clocks came up early. Tomatoes sown first came up after later sowings and really too late.

Lessons

Don't plant too early -- even if the plant comes up, holding them in the grow cells causes them to be slow when put in the ground.

Plant relatively hardy varieties first -- if it volunteers in your garden, it is hardy.

Plant frost sensitive plants to sprout a little before the last frost.

Unless you are happy losing plants, try to plant them so they can be easily separated. I am going to plant mine all in separate grow cells next year.

It is better to plant more than you think you will need than to wish you had more.

Be patient -- there will be late comers.

LJ: It is rather unfortnate that you had such an unrewarding experience from Winter Sowing, and really it is because you did not Winter Sow. The point in Winter Sowing is to put your containers outdoors in the winter and let them go through freeze, thaw, or whatever nature throws at them. Keeping them in a greenhouse that does not go below zero will not do it for those plants which require a period of freezing (cold stratification) to germinate. That includes many of the native perennials, coneflowers, etc. I would like to comment on some of your lessons learned:

You said: Don't plant too early -- even if the plant comes up, holding them in the grow cells causes them to be slow when put in the ground.

The idea is to plant early - in the dead of winter (some people plant at Winter Solstice), so the seeds can have a freezing period if required, or several freeze&thaw cycles to loosen their seed-coats. If the seedlings emerge when nature signals it is the right time, they will take off when you put them in the ground, because they are already acclimatized to that environment. When they are transferred from a 'protected' environment (like a greenhouse) they undergo more stress and will take time to get over it i.e. be slow when you put them in the ground.

You said: Unless you are happy losing plants, try to plant them so they can be easily separated. I am going to plant mine all in separate grow cells next year.

Many seeds are so small you cannot sow them separately i.e. petunias, poppies. Winter sown seedlings are so hardy you can simply pry them apart and either plant them to grow on for a few weeks, or you can do the HOS method which is described in Wintersown.org. That way nothing is lost.

Sheila, there are many people in your zone who Winter Sow. The best things to start with are hardy perennials, which you can grow on over the summer, then plant out in fall for flowering in the summer. There are some annuals which are easily winter sown: Nasturtiums, sweet peas, petunias come to mind. Other more tender annuals like zinnias must be sown in the spring - they just cannot take the winter. You will also have to start tomatoes, peppers, etc. indoors - even here in Zone 5 we need to do that in order to get ripe tomatoes before the snow flies.

Winter Sowing is not just a matter of containers - I use all sorts of things. If you have not done so, please consult Wintersown.org and read Trudi's guidelines for selecting seeds suitable for Winter Sowing. I started Winter Sowing in earnest in 2006 and I have gardens full of plants all wintersown except my bulbs. If you start studying the information in Wintersown.org now, you will be able to get lots of seeds through the garden exchange forum, and you will find it a most rewarding experience. If you wish, I could send you out a 'newbie' pack of seeds to help you on your way. Good Luck!!
Northerner.

Northerner,

Overall I was happy with my winter sowing venture. Most of my first and second plantings went through lots of freeze thaw cycles. I planted as my potting soil thawed, March to May. The water didn't go into the greenhouse until late April, until then the low temperatures in and out of the greenhouse were the same. I tried the water for passive heat so I could move my indoor starts out. Tomatoes, geraniums, and miniature roses don't like minus 10C. They don't like 0C either, but they survived. Perhaps, it wasn't a pure winter sowing experience -- close enough.

The people starting ws at winter solstice live in the southern US. It took a lot of reading ws posts to realize that if I want to be successful in zone 3a, I couldn't do the things that zone 7/8 people were doing. Little things like starting tender annuals later -- I'd already planted them.

Other than that I reported my experiences. Cucumbers, stocks, four o'clocks, and watermelon sprouted readily but couldn't be planted in early May. When planted out they did nothing. the stocks eventually bloomed and the four o'clocks are 6 inches high. The plants I had sharing cells, alysum and marigolds, didn't separate well.

Tomatoes, even though they were late sprouting (I planted the last group in June at the two leaf stage), have fruit set and will provide green (we actually like them), if not red tomatoes.