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Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Posted by floral_mystique Southern NM (My Page) on
Tue, Jun 20, 06 at 17:34

I recently purchased two Venus Fly traps that I'm having trouble identifying. I think it could be the variation "red Line". does any one know if the red line variation is capable of having all red traps and red petioles, it's more red then purple so I'm ruling out "red dragon" and "akiru ryu" does anyone know?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

My understanding is that the red colouration in Red Line is confined to the rim and inside of the trap and the leaf stem. Where did you buy it? There are a lot of VFT cultivars and unregistered forms but only a handful are commercially propagated to any great extent. The more obscure varieties, such as red line, are generally obtained through collectors or dedicated CP nurseries. If you bought the all red flytrap from a general garden centre/nursery I'd be inclined to think that the plant would be Red Dragon(aka Akai Ryu). FWIW under good conditions (high light + high humidity) Red Dragon does turn bright red. Lower humidity or lower light leads to the browny red colour commonly seen in most plants.


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

I purchased them at a wal-mart here in Las Cruces, I contacted the company that the nursery that the company came from but they never got back to me as to what it's species was. I thought red dragon and akai ryu were two different cultivars. well I'll try to get a picture taken and see if anyone can identify it for me. it actually needs to get a little healthier first, in the container it was grown it, it was really cramped, so right now it's rosetted but looks kind of warpy, it's new leaves are starting to grow again so I think it's finally over come the shock of being put into a suitable habitat.
~Matteo


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

The two plants are the same. The registered cultivar name is Akai Ryu - Japanese for Red Dragon (I think the actual Japanese is akai ryuu but I'm not enough of a pedant to take issue with it). The name Red Dragon is more commonly used, probably due to the English familiarity and the visual imagery that comes with the name.


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Hmm...My sister speaks some Japanese, well...wekk enouugh of it anyways. I'll ask her what akui ryu means, the search for my cultivar still continues though.
~Matteo


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Hey there Matteo,
Are you familiar with the International Plant Society web page. It has oodles of info and then there is a web ring, that will make you dizzy from all the info that you can get from the different sites.Also if you can find the website from Bob Zeimer at Humbolt State University. There are hundreds maybe even thousands of pictures that keep you busy for a few days.
If you can't find that Humbolt State website let me know and I will find the link for you,
Thanx for listening and keep 'em plants growin'
Lois


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

You know...I just bought a Flytrap at Walmart last weekend because it was so striking. The traps were very large and very very red on the inside. There is just a hint of red in the very yellow green stems as well. Maybe I'll post a picture when I get this thing back to health. I'm not an expert in Flytrap cultivars, but if anyone can ID; that would be great.

And thanks for clearing up the mystery on my Red Dragons. Yes, try as I might, I can't do a whole lot for them outdoors in MN with respect to humidity. I always get that red-brown look. However the one in my terrarium looks amazing. Much better looking than the outdoor plants for me.

Regards,
Joe


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Joe004,
did the fly traps you bought come in a clear cylinder with an animated fly on the outside, we might have boughten the smae plant if they came form the smae company, if you can send me a picture of what you have right now to diloph@gmail.com I can see if we are looking for the same cultivar.


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

you can find many many pics of different cultivars here:

http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/Dionaea.html

and Bob zeimer is a pretty nice guy, too :)

he seemms to know so much about different vft cultivars & varieties. my favorite one was that "pigmy" dionaea or "tiny" form.. they look like seedlings bu produce flower stalks.. amazing!


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Yep...sounds like we got the same one. I've got no pictures handy, but mine was exactly as you described. The flytraps were very nice looking. I was amazed and couldn't resist buying one.

Regards,
Joe


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Oh Filthy One,
Thanx for providing the www for Bob Zeimer's page.I didn't have it bookmarked. Now I do.
He is indeed a very nice and knowledgable man. Plus he is so willing to share his knowledge.
Thanx again and keep 'em plants growin'
Lois


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

I bought two of them today. I think this year's Wal-Mart Mutant is going to be "Paradisia". Last year they were selling "Dente". I noticed that the traps are very large and a deep red color. Mine were red inside and out. Some just has a red line just along the outside lip of the plant along with the teeth, and some traps were entirely red. Striking describes them well.


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

you guys are very lucky to find such plants with those traits!!! all i ever find is the 'typical' Vfts here in california..(i'm still happy with them, gotta admit, they are magnificent plants! typical or any trait)

no problem flytrpl8e!! (;


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Mine are alot redder looking then pictures I've found for Paradisia, but I've got to agree with xymox, having a beautiful plant is better then nothing regardless of it's type.

If you're in California have you contacted California Carnivores? I know they have Dente's and REd Dragon's for sale, they might even have other cultivars you would just need to call for availability.


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Trust me on this. Walmart does not carry "paradisia" or any of the more obscure varieties of flytrap. They obtain their flytraps from wholesale growers who obtain their plants from tissue culture nurseries(agristart etc.) Agristart produces red dragon, dente and typical. If the plant is from CA(booman floral, gublers) than they are typical. I have also seen dente flytraps at rite aid once. These are almost certainly from agristart.
Just because it appears to be a certain variety(paradisia) does not mean it is the exact same plants. I think that there are many different red line or banded variations, so chances are people are speaking of different clones. Red line is not too uncommon, as I have seen many seed grown plants exhibit the red lines.
Then again, many of the flytrap "varieties" are just renamed plants.


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Agristarts should bring some plants here. i've seen some pictures of their wholesale varieties. their flytraps do indeed have plants with really red traps & other traits. home depot usually recieves booman floral & gublers. However, booman floral carries better flytraps than gublers.

not only that, gublers seem to give a bit of a wrong info of the maintanance of how to take care of a flytrap.

booman floral gives a better interpretation how to care for flytraps.

the only plants i see really eye catchy sometimes from gublers are the drosera spatulata & the pings, it has many little nice clumps inside each tiny pot!

man.. those agristarts should really bring some plants here in CA. :)


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Trust me on this...it is no more diffcilut to propagate 'red line' than common flytraps; so there's absolutely no reason that these aren't some obscure variety. Trust me on this...Walmart will sell whatever stock ANY supplier is willing to deliver for the lowest price...it's just that simple. I know how Walmart deals with suppliers. Trust me on this...I have been growing CPs for far too long to see a typical flytrap at Walmart and decide I HAVE to add that to my collection...LOL.

Joe


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

They do propagate just as easily but it's a matter of what the major suppliers are willing to produce. Most of the 'obscure' forms floating around in culitvation are passed from collector to collector. They may be TC'ed in small numbers by enthusiasts but they rarely have enough commercial appeal to warrant a large company mericloning and producing them for the mass market. Garden centres and department stores do not market to the CP growing community. Their VFT's and other carnivorous plants are sold as curio/impulse buy stock. For these buyers, there is no difference between a redline and a normal VFT so there is no point in TC labs getting in new stock plants when the 'green one' and the 'red one' will suffice for the market. If store owners are as unwitting as the one Ilbasso 74 pointed out in a post a few weeks ago, it's definitely not worth producing some of the more interesting varieties. You may find more marketable cultivars plants like dente or bigmouth at a garden centre but these forms have been cloned to saturation. Redline has not.

To give you an example, Triffid Park who are one of the major M/O carnivorous plant nurseries in Australia currently list around 25 tissue cultured varieties of VFT for sale. They aim sales at the collector and generally don't grow their VFT stock on long enough the sell to the broader nursery market. Paradisia Nurseries, who supply most of our major garden centres and department stores, has a lot of varieties in flask but market only about 4 or 5 at its retail nursery. Of those of these only 1 or 2 are ever seen in the plants sent to major garden centres and department stores it supplies. Even Peter D'Amato with his thousand of species, none of which are for sale, know's what sells and only bothers mass producing that material. He's offering what? 3 cultivars on his website?

It should also be noted that 'sloppy' mericloning QC does tend to produce many mutated varieties from standard cloned varieties. These may be released without knowing or without caring and it's still worth picking up these chance finds amongst the common massed produced stuff. They are, however, new forms and shouldn't be given any pre-existing name (except that of the plant which it was cloned from if you so wish). The current naming system and the rigmarole involved in registering a cultivar has resulted in enough confusion with misnamed and renamed VFT mutants.
Andrew


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

My experiance with Wal-Mart is this, pure and simple. Go in the store, look through all the plants and see what's in there. Earlier this spring, A friend wanted me to go with her to pick out a plant for her bog garden. As we sorted through the plants we stumbled across a red one. Akai Ryu? Royal Red? Genetic freak? I don't know but there it was! We bought it and brought it home.


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

as i said before.. you guys are freaking lucky..!!!!


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Rumor has it that Peter will be carrying more types of flytraps within the next few months, especially the Triffid park clones.
Any body have a red line that they would like to sell , trade or send a couple of leaves?
Thanx for listening and keep 'em plants growin'
Lois


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

I think you are right on Andrew; there is the whole issue of flytrap cultivars which is really a seperate issue. These flytraps may not be redline (though I still think they are from everything I have seen). Once I get this guy healthy, I'll post some pictures.

It's certainly not dente, and does't look like "Big Mouth" to me. I've got probably 8 flytraps right now; with the oldest ones being in my possession for 3 years. The Walmart flytraps are different enough for me to say, "I gotta get me one of those".


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

"Trust me on this...it is no more diffcilut to propagate 'red line' than common flytraps; so there's absolutely no reason that these aren't some obscure variety."

Are you sure? It is quite possible to select very fast growing tissue cultured typical flytraps via tissue culture. All you need to do is sow seeds in-vitro, than select the fastest growing and largest individuals for mass propagation. Not all flytraps multiply and grow at the same rate in-vitro. The red line could easily be an inferior grower compared to the typical selection when placed in-vitro, making it obsolete for mass production. Corymbosa makes another good point about flytraps as impulse buys. There is no point in stocking a dozen flytraps when three would suffice.

"Are you sure about that? Some varieties ever stock ANY supplier is willing to deliver for the lowest price...it's just that simple. I know how Walmart deals with suppliers."

Yes, Walmart wants the lowest prices and the lowest prices originate from the large tissue culture companies. For $0.60 or so, suppliers can get a mature typical flytrap. I would bet you can't find a source of red line flytraps for that price(unless of course they were wild collected).

Trust me on this...I have been growing CPs for far too long to see a typical flytrap at Walmart and decide I HAVE to add that to my collection...LOL."

Actually, the whole point I was trying to get across was that it might not be best to name flytraps just because they look like a certain cultivar or "variety". If someone finds a plant that looks like Dionaea 'Jaws' at Home Depot, I would hope that they do not name it as 'Jaws' and distribute it. I guess I forgot to make this point in my first post... LOL.


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Trust me on this...as you say, "Red Lines" could easily be inferior growers; though by your own word selection -- they could easlily be superior growers; so your point is??? LOL!

Trust me on this...you are missing the whole point; Walmart doesn't know "red line" from "red dragon". They will take whomever has the cheapest plants. They could be cheapest for many reasons; liquidation, clearnance, going out of buisiness, etc. You will note that I never said the were 'red line'; though they appear to be. They certainly appear to NOT be 'typical'. I don't believe red line is a registered cultivar anyway.

Trust me on this...the really amusing point is you seem to know so much about Walmart flytraps for never having seen the ones we are talking about! Two people have the plants in their hands and say it looks like 'red line'. One has never seen them and insists it isn't...trust me on this, THAT IS FUNNY!! ROFLOL!


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

I just know the one I got looks like it is wearing lipstick! Good thing I got two, my lady friend beat me and took the big one! She left me the pot that had several in it though!


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Trust me on this...as you say, "Red Lines" could easily be inferior growers; though by your own word selection -- they could easlily be superior growers; so your point is??? LOL!

They could be superior or inferior, but you said:
"Trust me on this...it is no more diffcilut to propagate 'red line' than common flytraps; so there's absolutely no reason that these aren't some obscure variety." So again, how do you know that it is no more difficult to propagate red line than the common flytrap?
What I stated was one possibility. If they red line was a variation being propagated by large tc nursuries, how come it is still uncommon? I guess a good way to resolve this debate is to wait a few months for the red lines to flood the market:)

Trust me on this...you are missing the whole point; Walmart doesn't know "red line" from "red dragon". They will take whomever has the cheapest plants. They could be cheapest for many reasons; liquidation, clearnance, going out of buisiness, etc. You will note that I never said the were 'red line'; though they appear to be. They certainly appear to NOT be 'typical'. I don't believe red line is a registered cultivar anyway.

I don't think I am missing the point. Where can you find red line for the price of agristart flytraps? What is the name of the company that supplied the flytraps to Walmart? Just curious as they could be cheapest for reasons such as...wild collecting. Agristart also carries dente and red dragon and not just typical. Big Mouth is also not a registered cultivar, but I hope no one is distributing plants from Walmart as Big Mouth.

Trust me on this...the really amusing point is you seem to know so much about Walmart flytraps for never having seen the ones we are talking about! Two people have the plants in their hands and say it looks like 'red line'. One has never seen them and insists it isn't...trust me on this, THAT IS FUNNY!! ROFLOL!

I don't need to see as the description gives the plant away:
"does any one know if the red line variation is capable of having all red traps and red petioles, it's more red then purple so I'm ruling out "red dragon" and "akiru ryu" does anyone know?"

So you say that "Two people have the plants in their hands and say it looks like 'red line'" when the plant has all red traps and red petioles? Looks like a red dragon to me.


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RE: Dionaea Muscipula 'red Line'

Completely OT but just to clarify. Shadyvine, Big Mouth is a legitimate cultivar name. It wasn't registered with the IRA but slipped in the back door when the name was published in Tony Camilleri's CP book. It was introduced into Australia by Paradisia from seed received from ABG? and is very widespread here. A few US/European sources have started selling it.


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