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rootdiggernc

Acer palmatum 'Butterfly'

rootdiggernc
17 years ago

I'm looking for a Japanese Maple. 15 feet is a good height and I like the variegated and/or very fine cut leaves. Butterfly is pretty, but wanted to get some input on what others may think of it or another one you like really well. Also where's the best place to shop for this?

Comments (18)

  • dawgie
    17 years ago

    I'm not a fan of variegated Japanese maples, but to each his own. To me, they look kind of sickly. If you do buy one, make sure you plant where it is shielded from afternoon sun. The variegated JMs seem to burn very easily in full sun, at least the ones I have seen.

    Unusual varieties of JMs maples can be hard to locate in local nurseries. You may have to search on line. You might try Herter's, which is located in Lincolnton, NC, and has an on-line as well as retail store.

    http://japanesemaple.net/

  • rootdiggernc
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Thanks for the link. I'm not set on any one cultivar yet. Just trying to get some ideas and suggestions. The spot I'm wanting to put this is on the north side of my house, in front of my front porch. So I don't want it to get too big, about a 6 ft spread should work. The area does get a small amount of western sun in the afternoon, but not for long because of the woods on the western side.

    Some of the oranges are attractive, just not sure I want that color in the spot I'm working on right now. I love the reds, but it needs to stay away from the burgundy end of the spectrum. Weeping or cascading are gorgeous and would work well for the spot it's intended as I have a lot of ferns, lamium and other shade lovers in that bed which would appreciate the extra shade.

    As far as variegated I prefer the white/green ones, the ones with yellows and creams look sickly to me too.

  • tamelask
    17 years ago

    root- you may want to consider stopping at broadwell's and/or old stage nursery when you're in our area for bb or the swap. they both stock very reasonably priced jm's, at least the more common types, and in big sizes that would break the bank at a regular nursery. lots of weepers & uprights, etc. never seen variegated at either one, but they may carry them now. just a note in general- the weepers tend to get wider than tall; the uprights the opposite. if you get a weeper get one the height you want it, because it's hard to make it get any more height once it's grafted. old stage is better at customer help- you could tell them specifically what you want and they can point you in the right direction. i seem to recall nursery in the apex area being mentioned before that specialized in jap maples in the past yr or 2; try searching the forum. i don't think i've seen weeping reds that don't shade to burg at least at some point of the year. if not in the fall, then the spring.

    here's 3 links of nurseries in the pnw that specialize in japs- should be a good way to do research if not order. http://miyamaasianmaples.com/
    http://www.worldplants.com/
    http://www.mountainmaples.com/

    i agree, & think the varies look kind of sick unless the color is just right and the lighting, too. i think it's because the variegation cuts into the edge of the leaf and makes it look shrivelly or something. when they're spot on they're pretty, but it seems like it'd be hard to get just the right one in the right spot.

    what a fun challenge! have a ball finding just what you want. i'm sure it'll be a showstopper. tam

  • inthegarden_k
    17 years ago

    i have butterfly, and i love it. the leaves are very fine, and the edge variegation is lovely. the variegation is truly on the edge only, and on such a small leaf it does not look sickly...it looks like an outline. the size meets your criteria. i have it in a sheltered spot; it gets some sun in the afternoon for a few hours. i got it through someone who can buy from wholesalers, and i have never seen it at a local nursery.

  • DYH
    17 years ago

    Have you seen Acer palmatum var. dis. 'Viridis' that matures (slowly) at 10x12? Weeping cut leaf form with green foliage. Golden yellow fall color.

    We have 'Crimson Queen' and it has an orange-cast in sunlight with the burgundy foliage. So, that one probably isn't a good choice for your color preferences.

  • tamelask
    17 years ago

    i'm pretty sure that old stage carries 'viridis'. i know it's a cutleaf green weeper- it maybe 'waterfall', though. they are gorgeous!

  • dellare
    17 years ago

    I just bought the last viridis that we had at BB's from last year stock. We just got a new shipment (they should remain in their pots for at least until fall) in and I think it has the viridis as well as three other different kinds of the finely cut leaved kind (red dragon is one but I can't remember the others). Our prices start out at about 50 dollars and go up to about 100. Adele

  • dawgie
    17 years ago

    For the spot you described, I think Butterfly would grow fine there. If you like the variegated foliage, I'm sure it would be nice. I've got about 20 Japanese maple varieties. Here are my favorites in the size you mentioned:

    - Koto no ito -- A threadleaf variety that is hard to find in nurseries but not on-line. Looks like a miniature weeping willow. Grows more upright than many JMs and has nice yellow-orange fall color.
    - Viridis -- One of the old standards and easily found in nurseries. Grows wider than tall, so this might be a problem if space is limited. Nice yellow-orange fall color. Waterfall is a similar variety that seems to be available in a lot of nurseries.
    - Autumn Moon -- Hard to find in nurseries, but a few of them are around. Spectacular yellow-orange leaves in spring, summer and fall. Different species than most JMs, with more upright growth habit. My personal favorite for season-long leaf color.
    - Shin de shogo -- Another one of my favorites. Leaves open a spectacular fire-engine red and gradually turn to green, but new growth is red all season. Fall color is also bright red.
    - Villa taranto -- Another threadleaf variety that you sometimes see in nurseries. Leaves open reddish brown and gradually turn green, with new growth reddish. Will keep more of the reddish color with more sun. Very unusual variety, like nothing else.

    Broadwells and Tarwheel nurseries on Old Stage Rd sometimes have nice JMs for good prices. I bought a very nice Shaina there for $25 a couple of years ago and they had at least a dozen different varieties at that time, but last year they only had a few varieties -- the usual Bloodgoods, etc., when I went there.

  • rootdiggernc
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Thanks for all the info everyone. I'm amazed at all there is to learn about these beautiful trees. Forms, shapes, colors, types of leaves, it's incredible! Right now I'm looking up the ones mentioned here and then I'm sure to have more questions. Viridis a weeper is beautiful, but that 12 foot spread (thanks Tammy for explaining the tall vs wide) was enough to pull it off the list.

    I'm still debating whether I want it to grow above the porch rail (I think that's about 8 feet , but will measure to be sure) and act as a screen or keep it below that. I do know that I don't want to get something that will need constant pruning to keep it from over flowing its area. I've seen too many people on here talk about the nightmare of pruning trees that were never meant for a space to begin with.

  • tamelask
    17 years ago

    most jm's won't need constant pruning- they grow pretty slowly. not bloodgood, tho- lol- that's one i put in the wrong place and now have to tr to reign in. and, i've found with the weepers they self-prune to a degree. there's always some white at the end of the winter that has died out- usually right about where you'd want to prune anyhow; heavier shaded stuff, crossed, etc. i only touch up my weepers about this time of year or in fall, and it doesn't take long. my 10 yr + weeper is probably 4-5' around, but only 3' tall. he puts on about 4-6" of growth a year. wish i'd known that it was going to get wider than tall. oh well, i love it anyhow. t

  • dawgie
    17 years ago

    Here are some links to excellent websites with much information about Japanese maples along with photos, expected heights, fall color, etc.

    www.worldplants.com

    www.mountainmaples.com

    If you like Viridis, there are many varieties of green laceleaf JMs that have a weeping form. Don't rule out the threadleaf varieties, such as Koto no ito that I mentioned, which won't spread out as much as the laceleaf varieties. I saw a Koto no ito at a local nurseries that was about 4-5' tall and selling for $150, which I considered a real bargain. I buy most of my JMs newly grafted or 1-gallon and watch them grow. Doesn't cost me much ($15 per tree) and I can enjoy them in planters on my patio and deck until they are large enough to put in the yard. Some of the dwarf varieties can be grown in planters indefinitely.

  • rootdiggernc
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Tammy, I've decided I need a weeper, they're beautiful, just not in this spot.

    Dawgie, Koto no ito, is on my 'very possible' list.

    WorldPlants has really helped me to understand the different types. that is a great site! I still like Butterfly, but I'm very drawn to the Linearilobum types, especially for that spot. I think I have my list down to about 100, lol....

    I know it's going to cost a pretty penny, but I want to get a good sized one for that spot since they're so slow growing.

  • DYH
    17 years ago

    Something to keep in mind for small spaces, but it isn't a JM.

    Have you ever seen Rhus typhinia Tiger EYESÂ 'Bailtiger' PPAF It's gives you a similar foliage look, but is much less expensive and matures at 6x6. You do have to watch for suckers, but I don't think this patented variety is invasive like the wild sumac.

    sun/part sun, zones 4-8

    Here is a link that might be useful: an alternative

  • tamelask
    17 years ago

    oooh- they are absolute eye candy! but they aren't real cheap, either, though i guess since they grow fast, you could start with a small one. i have only seen them locally at 1 garden center. usually sumac have great red fall color, too.

  • rootdiggernc
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Wow, I like it! How fast does it grow?

  • tamelask
    16 years ago

    i don't know about that one, but most sumacs grow very fast to their mature size. like 1 year, possibly 2 at most.

  • DYH
    16 years ago

    a 5 gallon size is around $30, I think.

  • nancyofnc
    16 years ago

    You might want to consider a JM with interesting colored bark for the edge of your deck/patio instead of leaf color. Depending on how much you use your space in spring and fall, a tree with colored bark is pleasing, and rich green in summer. I have trees I grew from seeds of a JM 'Sango Kaku' or Coral Bark Japanese Maple. Of them, one is very dwarf, one dwarf, and one medium, all have colored bark - one more green, one more red and one more coral/yellow. I am sure the real ones are true to the coral color and size but I had fun growing variable ones from seeds and enjoy them in my garden. Supposedly the real ones get 30' tall but in 12 years my tallest mother was 10'. They get multi-hued fall leaf color and the bark color intensifies through late winter, new growth is on coral red twigs with bright leaves. The one advantage these JM's have is that you can prune them whenever you want and they put out even more branching red twigs. They are also on the lower end of prices for JM's.

    Nancy the nancedar

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