I bought one from Stage Road Nursery (the place across the street) about 4 years ago. I think it was about 6' tall including the pot and priced something like $20. I haven't been out there in a couple of years though. So if you go out there you might want to check both places. -Ais.

My error...it was Old Stage, not Tarheel. The one you bought from Old Stage...was it leafed out or just a stick with a couple of branches, and how long did it take to show some growth?

Also, doe sanyone know if Broadwell carries this Redbud? I've only found 1 place that has them, but they are high.

I don't know if broadwell's has it, but you can call coy in the eves and see. They do carry reg redbuds, but I kind of doubt they have forest pansy- he's not normally on the cutting edge. Why don't you try calling old stage and tell them the one you got this winter was kaput and see if he'll offer a recompense, even if it's only half? It's not been that long since you bought it. At the least you could go get another now when they should be leafed out and be sure of what you're getting. Even if you end up paying for 2 it's still cheaper than a garden center. I've seen them at old stage before and they weren't just sticks- they were full, gorgeous trees. A friend had to move his that he planted a few yrs back (from old stage) and it was gorgeous when he bought it. It died after he moved it and he went down to get another and was disappointed that they were sticks this time, too. So it may just depend on what they get in and how long they have to grow them out. Try not to base your opinion on them from 1 bad experience. Good luck!

Have you checked the Farmers Market in Raleigh? I've found some very nice and unusual varieties of plants there for reasonable prices.

I couldn't find a phone listed for Old Stage. Haven't been to the Farmer's Market either. Not even sure where is is now...been that long since I've been there and then it was off Capital. Just called Logan's, and their out of them too. They were getting $150 for a 5-6'. Geeesshhh!! People have gone Forest Pansy nuts, and I must be another!

Tarheel Native has them listed on their website:

Cercis canadensis ÂForest Pansy Popular selection with purple foliage. 7 Gal. $50.00

But it sounds like you've already tried them?...

Here is a link that might be useful: Tarheel Native Trees

Actually, I did talk to the owner at Tarheel Native and he does have a few there. They're bigger than the "stick" I had before but only 4-5' and not very branched out yet, but I think I've got my sights now on something just a tad bit bigger now or I'm just gonna wait.

I missed Atlantic Ave. nursery and they have some too, with some pretty good prices though. I think I waited too long this spring for the good deals.

I bought it in spring so it was already leafing out, but it wasn't that branchy. I do remember I went for the branchiest one I could find (not the biggest). It filled in quite well. Redbuds do tend to be very twiggy looking when young. Like I said, it was several years ago so the price may have gone up. Also, if they are getting that popular then it may be harder to find larger ones at reasonable prices. I doubt they are intentionally selling dead trees, but sometimes when they are dormant you don't notice. So maybe he would give you a replacement or discount.

They do not like to be transplanted, but but I don't think it's a problem when planting it from a pot. Maybe that is why it's so hard to find larger ones?

Boy, if it's been that long since you've been to the farmer's market you have to go back. It's different- one whole building is essentially plants now. Because of the drought, we lost a couple really good vendors, but some others have come in. Lots of fun to run up there. I did have the number somewhere for old stage but can't find it anymore. If i do, i'll letcha know.

Thanks Tammy.

aisgecko - I may go look at Atlantic Ave and see the one they have. Pretty pricey at $140 for 5' in a pot, and a B&B 8-10' for $300. Also Tarheel Native Trees has a 7gl for $50...may go look at it, but he said they are pretty scrawny.

I found one at Greenwood Nursery, at a reasonable price - 4', so probably close to a whip still, but.... I have bought from them before, they pack well and ship promptly.

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Forest Pansy'

Thanks dibbit.

Got a 5-6' Pansy and planted it Friday. Looks pretty good now. Hope it takes off growing. Never knew what all the chacteristics of this tree wre, but I got an education when I bought it. :)

where'd you end up getting it?

and share your education. I'm curious

I found a 6' forest pansy at the Burlington K-Mart, of all places. It was knocked off 20% down to $34, and is pretty healthy. What a cool little tree!

Just realize that Forest Pansy will revert to a mostly green leafed tree in our heat and humidity. Grew one at the previous house and even planting it where it got afternoon shade did not prevent the reversion to a mostly green leaf here in Kernersville during the heat of the summer. Sure wish there was a cultivar that retained the nice color that the tree has in the early spring!

Well to be honest with you, I was a little scepticle after talking and dealing with all those prior to last week, so I got a price on the phone and went to look at Atlantic Ave nursery. I was able to price around amongst Fairview, Homewood, Tarheel Native (I was going there next) and a number of other nurseries and the price was fairly common per foot size/#, but Atlantic had a slightly better price at the 5-6' range, so I went there...just to talk, or course.

One of the head guys on the lot that seemed to know a great deal about Forest Pansies, among others, talked with me for a while to educate my on the tree, where it likes to be planted and how, what to look for (character traits of the tree) when selecting a Pansy and a few other things. I just got a real good feeling about the tree I bought (or maybe I was talked into it). Anyway, the tree is a nicely formed 5.5' (to the highest limbs-the leader is 6') and I payed $140. Didn't really want to go that high, but realistically I knew when it goes to the Garden Centers the price goes up too, but also maybe I was just tired of dealing with all these people. Anyway, it's in the ground and looks stunning, although smaller out of the container. :-)

Thanks for all that info, Jim! So do tell, what did he tell you about what to look for and where it likes to be situated? I'm curious if the spot i have in mind will work well or not...

LOL! Some of you won't like what he said, but he was adamant about the Forest Pansy being the most important tree in the cercis canadensis category. Paraphrasing him he said that after the other redbuds stop flowering the show is over...that's it, but with Forest Pansy the show goes on, or something like that.

The limb structure of the FP is unique with the sharp roll up then down and straight of the limb, if you can visualize it. He said to stay away from any FP that looked like the other ones (bowl/vase shaped and probably pruned that way).
The FP's growth habit is that of a lateral nature, in that for a year's growth it would show 2' width and 1' in height. It's meant to grow out, so it should be given plenty of room to grow wide.

And of course the color is striking, and he admitted that some if not most of them will probably revert to a green/maroon combination because of heat and burning sun planting locations. He said the FP's found in the forests are generally located in an "understory" tree location, so they were never meant to be placed in the middle of the yard in full sun all day. The color of the FP continues to leaf out with pretty shiney maroon/dark red leaves even though some of the other leaves are turning green (color interest?). Also, the heart-shaped leaves which I think all redbuds have, don't they?

He alluded to/indicated (didn't really say) that a lot of folks in general don't plant their material properly either in the correct location and/or by using proper planting techniques, therefore never giving the tree or shrub a decent chance to grow strong and healthy. He also mentioned several other things, which escapes me at the moment, but I'll update as they resurface in my mind...if that ever happens again. :)

Again, this is as close as I can remember to what HE said or alluded, so no nasty letters, folks. Okay?!? :-)

That all makes sense- the prettiest one i've seen was a very horizontal specimen, about 8' tall, but 15' across. It sounds like it's another species or subspecies from the way you wrote/he talked (finding it in the wild) but i understood it to be a form of c. canadensis that was noticed and marketed, and i'd assumed it was tissue cultured. Are you saying it's a subspecies of c. canadensis that comes true from seed and is in nature, however rare? Yes, all the cercis species i'm aware of have the heart shaped leaves, some a bit less so. They do form different shapes of trees, though, and some of the leaves are very glossy, like the Oklahoma species.

So, did he say if sun or shade was preferred, and what effect that has on the color retention? I see them planted in the sun a lot, but cercis seems to prefer open woodland or woodland edges if left to its own devices. Seems like most trees/shrubs that have purple or burgundy foliage revert to green or bronzy green in the summer or much shade around here- like the japanese maples, and purple leaved plums, etc. So i guess that's no surprise to me. The spot was thinking of is just up from where some native redbuds are, and was where a nice dogwood was before it died. As the form and preferred natural habitat isn't dissimilar, i thought it would do well. It's open shade, on a hillside with clay soil.

I guess he has a right to say what he wants, and he's right that there are plenty of folks who just buy something & plunk it in, knowing jack about the preferences. I'd hope he's trying to do his part to educate at least the ones he comes across so that some folks know what they're doing. I think as a whole, the folks on here are an informed bunch. We certainly try, which is part of why i was curious what you'd found out.

Seems like a knowledgeable guy. Just charges a little much for a tree! ;) Just kidding...if you're happy with a tree, it's a good thing, period. I've spent that much and more on really nice trees.

I have a gorgeous Forest Pansy next to the building I work in and it's probably 30' high by 25' wide. They let it grow naturally now, although it was definitely pruned in its youth. What a show it has already and continues to put on! The foliage does revert to a dark green near the end of the summer, but it's only for a month or so. I tried to get the landscaping guys let me air layer it...no dice...

"Are you saying it's a subspecies of c. canadensis that comes true from seed and is in nature, however rare?"
Tammy - You're starting to get way over my head on this one, but I don't think he was trying to say it's another species or subspecies form of c. canadensis, but rather he was strongly opinionated and didn't see much interest in the rest of the c. canadensis varieties other than the FP. He thought they should be kept in partial shade instead of full sun, but that's just his preference. I, as well as most other people have seen other understory-type trees positioned as a single focal point of interest in yards in full sun and doing well, so I'm not sure where his opinion is rooted.

Most of the ones I've seen including the one I bought and the other ones there at the nursery were grafted, which I gathered was the standard process for these trees. And, yes, I have 2 JM's that do turn slightly green in the heat of the summer also, so I'm sure this is same scenario.

One of the reasons he probably has feelings about educating the "visitor/buyer" that comes into his nursery, among his already strong feelings about such things, could be the many complaints and returns he sees from customers that have not had success with their purchases. I get the feeling he doesn't have much tolerance for folks who take shortcuts from established practices in planting and care of the trees and plants.

mbuckmaster - keep working on those landscapers...they may have a weak moment and let you go to work on the FP.

If they're grafted that would tell me that they're tissue culturing and it's probably a single variant that was noticed and brought into the trade rather than a naturally occurring subspecies. But that would be a guess on my part- i'm no expert on commercial plant propagation & marketing. It's interesting that the growth pattern is different as well as the color of the leaves- wonder if somehow that alters the growth? After all, most variegated things are less vigorous than their parents because of lack of chlorophyll. Perhaps there's some similar mechanism with red/purple colored foliage.

I have to disagree with him in that i see the beauty of the native redbuds as well as forest pansy. I actually like the form of them better than FP or the asian variety, which is stiffly upright. I do love the extra deep & plentiful color pop of the flowers on the asian ones, and the form of the native canadensis, as well as the form and gleam of the leaves on the oklahoma species. They all have a place, to my eye. I like FP for its leaf color, mostly. There's a new one, at JCRA near the building, that's got white variegation on the leaves, but i honestly think it looks diseased rather than deliberately variegated. I can see where if they can breed one that has the right pattern it will be a stunner.

Part shade is what i'd assume they wanted, since that's what the native eastern picks in nature, so that's good. I see them used in sun as well as dogwoods, but to me they look happier and more natural in part shade with a more open form and fewer blooms. As long as they do well in either condition, i don't care what others do.

thanks for clarifying.

Yep, I'm kinda like you...I like them all. I started all of this tree-planting stuff mainly to give some partial shade relief to my turf fescue/KBG/PR lawn, but now it's starting to snowball out of control, not to mention getting expensive. I guess I can eventually blame it on the "curb appeal" process for any future house selling effort.

I am not in your zone, but I do love redbuds and have several varieties. I love Forest Pansy, but should disclose that without a fair amount of sun it just turns into dark, not red, leaves, similar to many of the Japanese maples. Obviously if you plant it as an understory tree like most redbuds want, the window of opportunity for really red leaves is slim, as the tree will no longer be red when the trees above it are in full leaf. Best location seems to be almost full sun if you want to keep it red. Of course, it has an oversized leaf, so that also means that it will need to be monitored more often to make sure it does not wilt down, which many of the fancies will do. I do offer up the Hearts of Gold is another newer variety that is supposed to do well out in full or almost full sunlight, with oversized leaves and the color of a golden delicious apple. What a beauty.

All of these newer varieties were accidental seedlings discovered by someone who caught that they were special, many at a young age. Yes, they are patented and propagated via graft, so you are supposed to have a permit to produce more of these trees. Also, a plus for some, these guys tend to set very little, if any, seed. Lavender Twist will set less than 30 pods on an adult tree, all 25% the size of a normal pod, all sterile. I have seen seed for Forest Pansy offered on Ebay with the disclaimer that it may not breed true, but I am very suspicious that the seed may have been harvested from any branches belonging to the root parent, making it plain old redbud from the forest, but not a Forest Pansy.

Don't forget some of the older varieties - Oklahoma redbud, the Texas redbud, and the weeping redbud, Traveller. Traveller is the one I want, but couldn't find at anywhere a resonable price. My Lavender Twist is similar, but not the same.

A problem that I do not see addressed is predation of young trees by deer. Of course, in NJ, deer prey on most plants. They will chomp off a 2 or 3 year old tree at the base, and strip the leaves off of the lower limbs of older trees. Imagine my surprise to walk out and see a whole you could drive a car through in my Lavender Twist. They had eaten leaves, branches, twigs, everything but the trunk. I know that many do not like to hear this, but they are as bad as any noxious pest we freely kill - rats, mice, or groundhogs, for a few. So destructive, populations soaring as they have found new buffets of food as the gardeners foolishly believe that there is anything you can grow that the deer will not learn to eat.

OK, that was my pet peeve for the day. Plant those redbuds, make the world a more beautiful place, one tree at a time.

Happy gardening!

Odd that you should mention deer, because my new Forest Pnasy has had most the leaves stripped off the lower branches by deer, and the Hostas have fallen prey to teh deer AND rabbits. Wish they'd find something to eat somewhere else than my salad bowl yard.

I'm fascinated by everyone's posts about the Forest Pansy. I was visiting Maryland, and noticed a purple-leafed tree in a garden center with the heart-shaped leaf of a redbud. It was mid-June 2008, so the flowers were long gone. I was actually looking for a fruit-bearing purple leafed plum, for my back yard...which I did not find anywhere. I called and found out about Forest Pansy Redbud, and have been surfing the net to learn more. Thanks for all that each of you have shared. I appreciate your experience and knowledge.

I am removing a 100+ year old Magnolia, because I am sick and tired of cleaning up after it, and twisting my ankle on the cones. It will become next year's firewood. Seedlings are rampant in my bedding areas and among my azaleas. You are welcome to them. I feel the same way some of you do about deer, but regarding Magnolia and oak seedlings. A hundred years ago, dozens and dozens of them lined Tarboro's Main Street, and a few dozen still survive. I'd rather admire them in someone else's yard several blocks away. Ten years of cleaning up after it is enough. I'm no longer amused with it.

The soon-to-be-vacant spot is in the front, northwest corner of my yard, sort of an "L" shaped area (flip the L and rotate once to the right). I was thinking of a wide V-shaped arrangement of 3 Forest Pansy redbuds, which would make a lovely screen, to filter street noise, and with the coloration, make a spectacular statement in front of a pink Victorian Italianate home. A towering Pin Oak, between the sidewalk and street, would provide mid-day to late afternoon shade to that corner of my yard.

Any suggestions on how to prepare the soil? Being within the drip line of that trashy Magnolia, I would presume to think the soil would have peculiar qualities.

How far from the driveway, and sidewalk should the trees(s) be planted?

Do any of you know what growers supplied the nurseries or garden centers with Forest Pansy? Are the growers in NC or elsewhere? Please advise.

OBTW, we do have rabbits, and the occasional deer here, too ;-)

The classic magnolias are indeed stately and admirable trees...in other's yards. I don't blame you for taking it out, although it may cause some issues with your new plans. If the tree was 100+ years old, the existing root system must be extensive. Are you going to attempt to plant near where the tree once stood? Even if you can actually get the redbuds in the ground, as the old magnolia roots rot, it could cause issues with anything you plant.

As for your other questions, soil preparation isn't too big of an issue with redbuds...they prefer slightly acidic soil and don't like wet feet, but will cope with anything, really. The afternoon shade will be appreciated, especially for maintaining the purple foliage. Redbuds have very deep taproots, and after they're maintained shouldn't even require watering. Also because of the taproots, you can plant near driveways with no worries--the roots are not invasive in the least unless you plant it on top of the septic tank! Many big box stores will have a limited number of high priced Forest Pansy redbuds...I found mine at a K-Mart clearance sale for $31, though, so the deals can be had if you look for them.

Since I'm typing, it's worth noting that there are many exciting new cercis cultivars out there...'Hearts of Gold' just went into my garden in the Fall and I'm actually anticipating the leaf out more than the floral display! There's also variegated forms, weeping forms, and even blue-green dwarfs.

Cercis candensis 'Silver Cloud'
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Cercis candensis 'Little Woody'
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Cercis candensis 'Hearts of Gold'
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One final word...don't think that all magnolias are bad! There are many improved varieties of magnolia grandiflora that are truly excellent trees, even in a small suburban yard. And the deciduous varieties are outstanding in nearly every way!