daphne will be beautiful one day, and dead the next.
Dirr is correct. be prepared to replace them when the inevitable happens. they are wonderfully fragrant :)

The JC Raulston Arboretum has at least one daphne that has lived for 4 years. That one is in a shaded, sheltered location.

Thanks to you both. So it sounds like it's not that they just die after planting/in the first year, rather that they just don't hang around for very many years. i.e., four years alive would be considered "good". Is that right? Is there anything one can do to soil to help em live longer? Is shade a key factor- so place "under-the-armpit" of say my flowering crab? Is it temperature?- here we just hit 90+ degrees for the first time in 3-4 years. Dirr speculated the mystery death may be a virus.

Daphnes do need good drainage, and shade. I think the main thing with daphnes is just to enjoy them while you have them. If they don't die from wilt or a virus or whatever causes that sudden death, I don't know if 4 years is a long time for a daphne to live or not. But since the Arboretum doesn't have an older one, it may be fair to assume that something gets them sooner rather than later in this climate. Perhaps just treat them as a not-very-long-lived perennial. The fragrance is incredible in late winter.

The stairway at McIntyre's Bookstore in Fearrington Village used to be the home of a beautiful little potted Daphne. The scent, intoxicating. It's not there anymore.
Neither is the one that I was inspired to buy and put on my steps.

If those commercial Fearrington gardeners can't get Carol to thrive, what hope is there for the rest of us?

claire in sanford.

Different species of Daphne prefer different things - I haven't grown 'Carol Mackie' but I believe it is more like an alpine plant. Stays small and compact and is most often grown in rock gardens with lots of gravel added to the soil. I have seen it used in regular non-rock gardens but it always looked like it had just been planted. They would look good in a pot which would solve the drainage problem.

The JCRaulston has a large cluster of D. odora (whatever the white edged leaf form is called) over in the walled garden section. In the last section on the left with the Camelias and blue stone frog pond. That group of bushes has been there as long as I have lived in Raleigh which is right at 5 years and they were mature specimens when I moved here (waist high and 3 feet wide), so I believe they are all way over 5 years old.

At home I have Daphne odora and Daphne gengkwa and they do fine - but I also have sandy soil.

My advice to folks that like Daphne is to buy them all the time and be prepared to replace the ones that die, which can happen suddenly for no apparent reason. You can find them pretty cheap if you look for them when they aren't blooming (late spring/summer) and for the price and the powerful winter fragrance they are still worth it even if they only last a few years.

My Daphne odora has been in the ground for 5 years now and is doing pretty good - thought I lost it this past winter (my fault not the plants) but it is FULL and beautiful now. It is planted is a sheltered area between the deck and the steps from the deck - gets afternoon sun but not a whole lot. The fragrance in the winter is just heavenly.

Oh yeah, the one in the walled section doesn't have an acquisiton date. Those are the ones I'm thinking of. So the Arboretum, according to their online records, have four D. odorata that are four years or older. That's not bad. I have been scared off from getting one after reading in Dirr's manual, too. (Plus, I have heavily amended organic clay -- not the best drainage.) Planting under a tree should help provide better drainage.

I'm just visiting the Carolina forum because ya'll have such interesting conversations. I've had a Daphne odora in a pot for two years now. It gets morning sun and dappled afternoon shade. They are notoriously finicky, but perhaps I've prayed to the right garden gods because I've had no problems.

However, I just bought another daphne (also in a pot) as my backup, just in case my older one drops dead for no apparent reason. The heavenly scent is winter is worth all this trouble. Walter Reeves, a well-known Georgia garden guy, suggets such.

Happy gardening!

Here is a link that might be useful: Walter Reeves on Daphnes

Thanks to all. We'll probably try a couple-quart size, pretty inexpensive this time of year. I wondered if 'Carol Mackie' might be sort of alpinish- slow growth rate, short stature, maybe needs sandy/rocky soil/very well drained soil. Curious though that it likes some shade- low growing plants in alpine habitats often being in the open... Anyway, maybe I'll amend the root run with rock grindings, which is what I have best access to here.

I have a couple of daphne odora. Picky, picky about their soil. Also need to be planted on a mound so water drains away from them. If you have clay soil add equal amounts of sand and pebbles, plus twice that amount of soil conditioner, to the planting hole. Make sure the daphne is planted above the level of the ground around it. Good luck. Even when they are not blooming, the leaves are so pretty. When they are blooming - early March for me - the scent travels up and down the street. Beautiful plants.

My daphne, Carol Mackie, never really got planted.
I left it in the pot, cut bigger holes in the pot bottom, made a scuff (maybe 2" deep) and set the pot in there.
16 years later in the dappled shade of an elm and a holly it blooms beautifully every late winter.
The keys are drainage and shade from the harsh sun.
If OP is full sun, I doubt the daphne will last.

I planted 5 Daphne odora "marginata" (I believe that's the name for the ones with the white borders on the leaves, John) in a raised brick planter on the front of my house in March of '02 and they've grown, flowered, and all but one is doing well (that one looked like it was going to die earlier in the year, but while it's still sickly looking looks a little better now than it did).

After reading all about the worries of Daphne, I decided to put them in that raised planter, which had azaleas in it for more than 30 years, which were mostly dead or bad looking... I pulled them out, saved a couple and transplanted, dug ALL the soil out of there and moved it to a border around the nearby dogwood, where I added amendments to make a hosta bed, tilled about 6" BELOW the surrounding grade, took my drill attachment "bulb planter" and dug out about a dozen mini "French Wells" in the below-grade soil, which I filled with drainage rock, then put a solid layer above that about 2" deep, then filled the whole planter back up with a cubic yard or so of a mix of 1/3 pine bark fines, 1/3 mushroom compost and 1/3 bagged topsoil... I fertilize lightly with a balanced fertilizer just after bloom every March.

Mine bloom well, but I'm not getting the scent I smelled at the nurseries. They're on a western wall, which is mostly shaded during the summer, due to the big dogwood and other trees, but it full sun in the afternoons when the trees have no leaves.

One thing I was told when buying these was that although they drown easily if left in standing water, they also die just as quickly if the roots are allowed to freeze when it's cold and they're dried out, so they need to have moisture, even in the winter, I guess, but never enough to drown them... supposedly sitting in the after-effects of a downpour for a couple hours is enough to wipe them out.

Before I planted them, I tried posting questions for tips and suggestions on the shrubs and a couple other forums and nobody was willing to say anything, folks are so "spooked" by this plant, lol. But so far, so good.

Good luck!
Jeff

I have three "Carole Mackie" Daphnes in my front flower bed in full sun. Granted, they were only just planted last October, but started out as small, one quart plants and are now much larger. They're in ammended clay and have been given absolutely no special treatment. I have been told that the best way to ensure their survival is to totally ignore them. NO BABYING!!
They did indeed smell wonderful when they bloomed in early spring, and have been filling in consistantly even with the heatwave and drought we've been having here lately.
I'm in NW Guilford County, just outside of Greensboro.

Be aware, however, that although they are evergreen, they can suffer from some leaf loss in the coldest winter conditions. Mine dropped leaves all the way up their stems to about six inches from the top last February/March during our coldest snap of the winter. Most of the leaves have since grown back as well as many new stems emerging.

I'd give "Carole Mackie" a try, especially if you can find some relatively small and inexpensive ones.
.....Jan

I've killed two but am still determined! Last year I got an expensive Monrovia Daphne Odora Marginata (the variegated one) and then we had lots of rain and it died. This spring I bought 3 from someone at the Farmers' Market for $4.00 each. Two are doing well in very large pots (knock on wood!) By "doing well", I mean they are still alive. They haven't grown much. We'll see...

You should see my HUGE, OLD daphne odora. It's variegated. I bought it at Home Depot TWELVE years ago, just a wee thing in a gallon container. I know it's thriving because it is sited perfectly. Here's the scoop on it:

It's in a sheltered area alongside an azalea. I amended the soil with compost and pine bark mulch and the soil there stays moist and cool in the summer. It's planted in a raised, tiered bed on the second terrace. It gets a little direct sun in the middle of the day, that's all. I throw some Hollytone on it once a year. I can see under it, and the roots are gorgeous. I see a curvy, fat root, with beautiful markings, and about an inch or more thick. I never touch it.

Box turtles have mated under there, and one lives there (the female). Wrens nest in the daphne every year. The bush is about 5 feet across, and maybe 4 feet tall. It's really big, and I've had to prune it back so we could get down the wooden steps.

Only ONCE have I seen any sign of disease, and that was this past spring, in the plant's 12th year. One huge branch wilted and died. I thought, uh oh, this is it. I cut the branch out, and it's thriving still.

Painters and workers had been working on the exterior of the house, and they abused it some, sprayed it with dirty paint water, and everything.

There is nothing like it when those flowers are perfuming the air in winter.

Maybe I should call Michael Dirr and let him see my geriatric daphne!

They can be long lived. Have 4 D. odora 'Aureamarginata'(2 white, 2 pink). Oldest one is about 20 years old, youngest one is 8. They were planted on a clay slope, on top of a mound of composted ground bark about 6" high. Roots were fanned out over the mound and covered with 2" of same material, with the crown well exposed. Stakes were used for a couple of years to keep the plants upright until roots were well established. Only maintenance required is occasionally checking to be sure the crown is well exposed.
Also grow D. genkwa and D. x burkwoodii 'Carol Mackie', both in well drained ordinary garden soil. The genkwa is in full, high shade, "Carol Mackie' is near the drip line of a Southern Magnolia and receives afternoon sun fron about 2PM until sunset. Both are 4-5 years old. I would recommend the D genkwa 'Hackenberry Strain', which has larger flowers than the species.
Rb

I have had excellent luck. I plant mine in mostly shade in raised beds/berms as Jeff mentioned. I then fill the bed with high quality potting soil. I think they are the kind of plant that need impeccable drainage. They like to have their upper roots partly exposed above the soil in my experience, so I use a large sized pine bark mulch to allow aeration and keep them moist.

On a winter garden tour of JC Raulston, the guide told my wife and I as we were admiring the variegated daphne to expect ~10 years from them on average. I've got 4 cuttings in pots from a daphne at our old house that up and died as we were moving out which I will plant at the new house (and take more cuttings!).

My Daphne Odorata Marginata was moved to a filtered sun location under a tree, but the sprinklers reach it for 10 minutes every other day. The lower leaves turned yellow and fell off. Too much water?

So I moved it to morning sun only, no sprinklers. It's been a week and the leaves are still turning yellow and falling off. Should I already plan a eulogy for this one and shop around for a replacement?

Perhaps a eulogy would be in order. They are supposed to be awfully picky plants. However, I'd still wait until next spring to yank it, unless it looks really and truly dead. Sometimes plants can surprise you in a good way.

However, this thread certainly offers hope to all who were afraid to plant Daphne before now.

I live in Brooklyn and have a daphne caucasica, about 6 years old that grew into a 4 foot mounded shrub (planted at 18"), is semi-evergreen and blooms almost continually spring through fall with great fragrance. Just a few weeks ago, a third of it wilted and i cut that part out, now am waiting for the rest to go?

I purchased an odora recently, should plant in different spot if the old one dies, no?

yes, sunray, i would definitely plant it in a different spot. the fungal disease that kills them will linger in the soil and get the next one that much faster. will cross our fingers your caucasia isn't dead. sounds like a great plant if it blooms that long. odora only blooms for about a month in late winter. despite the problems, they are worth growing.

Mine is thriving for the 2nd year on a South-facing brick wall, part shade, crowded by plumbago and black and blue salvia, in a raised bed with excellent drainage. It and the plumbago never wilt, even in this drought. It just gets watered when some smaller plants in front or even the salvia starts to droop a bit. One reason the bed gets especially good drainage is that the wall is built from irregularly shaped rocks of pink granite (free), and they are free stacked. Not sure what even keeps them in place, LOL.

Mine's just plain jane Daphne odora. I planted it in 2001, at the intersection of a 6ft wooden fence and the corner of my house, on the north side. It gets complete shade and protection this way, except in the summer, when the sun is right overhead for a few hours. There is a slope to my property as well, so it's getting the drainage it needs, and I did indeed amend the soil (clay) with lots of pine soil amendment. With this arrangement, the roots stay cool and moist, but not too wet, and it is covered with flowers in February. I'm probably going to root cuttings this next spring (provided we are not classified as desert by then), I believe it when people say they could croak at any time and I'd hate to miss out on not having them around in the dead of winter.

This thread has reminded me that I was planning on trying Daphne once the house was moved. LOVE stuff that blooms in Febuary...

I must be awfully lucky to have a Feb. blooming variegated daphne that is going on 21 years old.
One of the few times my lazy habit of setting a potted shrub into a scuff intending to plant it later worked out beautifully.
By the time later rolls around, the shrub..in this case daphne,has grown roots out through the pot well into the scuff.
Daphne dies due to the wet. It wants filtered sunlight but not the glaring afternoon sun.
Mine is in an understory area east border behind a full grown American holly and beneath a full grown asian elm. In the afternoon, it is shaded by a huge Burford holly and our house.
It has to compete for water with all these mature shrubs and trees but there it sits in its original pot, year after year getting bigger.
I think I got lucky.

i'll say!! kudos! there's a couple that are at least 13 -14 years old at the jcra, and the reid garden here in raleigh has a huge one planted at the top of a terraced hill beside a house that looks to be ancient. sad that these are remarkable. wish they all went on & on like that.

Tam, that hilly location seems to be of benefit to drainage since mine is at the edge of a hill as well.

I planted a daphne odora marginata (varigated green and white) probably over twelve years ago - before I had the internet and so didn't know how picky they are. It's on the east side of my house north of a large pear tree so just gets some morning sun. Not especially good drainage.

The last four years I haven't been gardening, so it's gone through some cold winters (down to 15F) and hot,dry summers with NO care, not even watering. Now that I'm back to gardening, I got the weeds cleared away so I could find it. It is doing just fine! Flowers in the spring and now looks large and healthy, bigger and better than when I was trying to take care of it so I just bought two more to try. I did have a couple of Rock Daphne which did ok for a couple of years but then turned up their toes. I guess Benign Neglect is the key.

I wanted to let you know my Daphne also died, poor drainage I believe. The smell is so heavenly. Heaven Scent Roses in Pfafftown propagates Daphne and since they are already raised in this inviroment they should give us more success with growing one. When purchased from nurseries they have been brought in from other parts of the country.

Here is a link that might be useful: Heaven Scent Roses