Thanks so much for your help. It was wonderful that such a forum exists.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28993802/Citron.doc

What size containers are you using, what type of soil mix, how often do you water,
and how often do you fertilize?

Josh

Thanks for responding.
Please see attached file / link in original post for photos and more information.
The only thing I need to add is the soil mix. I replanted the plants in 8" containers this summer and used Miracle Grow Citrus mix.

I would give the soil a good flush and then hope for them to recover.

OMG Are you serious?

What would you suggest my fertilization schedule be?

PS I assume you didn't have a problem with my posted link? Toni couldn't open it.....

Here's the text of the doc ----

Hi guys.
I hope you will be able to help me diagnose the issue with my citron (etrog) plants.
They are 15 months old in containers. Kept outside in the warmer NJ months and inside during the colder ones.
I keep them under fluorescent GE grow bulbs and temperature in that room does not drop below 60 degrees.
I started fertilizing them with miracid (30-10-10) a couple of months ago and before that I used a general 10-10-10 fertilizer. I water as needed, typically every week and fertilize them every 3 weeks or so.
They have lately developed on the very top leaves some kind of curling up symptom changing color to purple and eventually starting to dry out. I was wondering if you can diagnose the problem. I have heard opinions ranging from lack of Pottassium/Phosphorous/Mg/or possibly some kind of insect infestation too small to notice.
Here and there some leaves show some sign of possible "insect chew" but it is not widespread at all. I included their pictures below as well.
Also infrequently a leaf yellows up and drops. I included those pictures as well. So! That is my story.
Please help!
T Frank

The VERY first thing I would do is invest in a magnifying glass and check for pest.
In particular 'spider mites'.
They are notorious for destroying new growth in the way you explained, later on working to your older growth if not caught in time.
The fact that you say it is happening this time of the year puts red flags up with me.

Please check, and then come back once you are absoluetly certain you have none of these.

In fact, I'll bet if you took your tree to the shower and or used water to wash your tree off rubbing those leaves between your fingers, you would see the syptome abate.
I use a cotton ball or tissue and regularly wipe the leaves on any suspicious activity.

Your cultural habits would concern me after the pest option is off the table. After you clean the leaves.

Then we could go on to the next step which our dear friend Josh has brought up:-)

Thanks once again Jean, Josh and John for all you do too.

Mike

Thank you Toni for trying. I couldn't pull up pics either.

Is there anyway you could use a host site like photobucket Frank and post them here? Once you get the hang of it, you will have fun.

Mike

Also, with fertilizer, I use Osomocoat slow realease All Purpose and MiracleGro all purpose. Osomocoat I use as whatever the dosage is. MiracleGro I use everytime I water. Mix 1 table spoon with a gallon of water and water whenever it gets dry. Sometimes, I just water with tap water just to flush out the accumulated fert. salts.

Patty S.

When it comes to identifying insects, I always defer to Rhizo to make ceratin that the pest your dealing with is accurate.

I like to be on the precaution side, never using a pestsicide unless I am absolutely certain of what the pest is and that it can be handled with a simple swipe of the fingers and or with water.. for me, showering mine clean or wiping them off often does the trick without oils.

Most oils do the job too and can be safe, but then some burn plants too.

The very first thing I always do when I see any difference on the leaves of mine, especially distortion, is count out pests. I make absolutely certain and then identify if need be before I fool around with my fertilizers.

The next thing I always do is make sure my 'mix' is working correctly and that it is one that will not allow even the possibility of over fertilization to harm anything. If it drains freely every time you water, that is an advanatge for you that Josh had tried to point out.

Then I go from there. Usually I one can easily determine if they are over fertilizing with no hesitation, if they are not following label instructions, using less than the prescribed dosage, watering first in an open mix then coming behind and fertilizing, or using a heavy mix that takes too long to dry out, which in this instance is guarenteed to hold salts if not flushed out often This can be something easy to figure out for each of us in our own circumstances.

Accumilated salts in your mixes can make your leaves look burnt and so can spraying your leaves with fertilized water.

It's so nice to see so many here Patty, Rhizo, John, Josh, Jean, and Toni guiding you along. You'll get it.

Nice to see you 'Rhizo' and Patty and others!
Mom sends a big hug to you Rhizo!

Mike

Apparently, there seems to be two opinions here.
Over fertilization and insect infestation (possible citrus leaf miner).
For the over fertilization, I am now allowing my pots to dry out (almost there) and then will flush them till they won't recognize themselves.
Will then try to adapt a different fertilizer or different schedule. Will sort that out later. (Currently using miracid every second watering, will probably change to once a month...)
For the possible infestation, I will shower the plant with water, allow to dry, spray with Bayer, pinch off the affected leaves and hope for the best.

Please tell me if I'm working in the correct direction.
Can't thank you guys enough!

I'm trying to attach photos again. See if it works!

http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/28993802/1/Citron photos?h=100b2b

One more question. For some reason, only one of my pots does not drain well at all. (I think it has the same mix as the rest....not positive....) It almost never dries out! I never had any issue with this and it never caused me to be concerned. (Until now.... but ALL my pots are suffering from this symptom, not only this one).
Do you suggest I switch the mix, if yes should I wait till spring?

Actually, the only resemblance I found online was this

http://idtools.org/id/citrus/diseases/factsheet.php?name=Citrus+chloro tic+dwarf+virus+CCDV

Cool site.

My leaves most resemble those affected with the Citrus Chlorotic Dwarf Virus.

We shall see if spraying and flushing work though......

Thanks for your help!

Kind regards,

Patty S.

And this one you can actually see the CLM larva at the end of the tunnel:

The tunnels are the giveaway, and very, very obvious. No guessing with CLM :-) At this time of year, I would suspect aphids. They appear usually in the early spring and will cause leaf curl. So will psyllids too, though. So, that is a little disconcerting. But, your bug photo doesn't look like a psyllid to me. When they're attached to a leaf, they are very easy to identify because they point the ends of their abdomens up in the air.

And, you can see how a photo looks embedded in a message. Much easier for an old fogie like me to be able to check out and answer :-) I would check out your state's cooperative extension web site, and look up agricultural pests to see if you can match up the image of your bug to something there. Or better yet, send it off to a coop extension agent to ID for you. In any case, I would say an insecticidal soap should kill the offenders. If you want to resort to an insecticide, imdicloprid will probably also be affective, but it's always best to get a confirmed ID if you can, so you can use the least toxic method to eradicate the pest without harming our beneficial insects or yourself.

Patty S.

I also noticed an insect that flew off the plant I attached two shots. Can anyone identify it?


After consulting with many experts, I'm leaning toward a ph/salt issue of the soil. If flushing is not working perhaps I should change the soil. What do you experts recommend that I should replace the soil with? Miracle Grow Citrus Mix?
Thanks for your time.

Webbing - seems to be telltale signs of typical spider mites

Mite - close up photo shoot. Am I correct in identifying this as a spider mite?

Trees (5 in all) - I keep em in Lowes containers - do any of you feel that they are two narrow?

Various

By the way, how close to the 5-1-1 is your mix?

Josh