Thank You Patty for your suggestions and advise. I will check the big box stores today and see if I can find the Green light Spinosad. I will use Neem as well. I'll make sure to spray when the temps are below 85 degrees, actually we've been having such a warm winter (only a few nights of very cold weather)...it was 89 degrees last Friday! We're suppose to be in the low 80's today and upper 80's by Wed. so I might spray very late afternoon just to be sure. I appreciate it!

Nancy

puglvr1,

I am also in central Florida (Citrus county). As a general rule the first flush of the citrus in miner free. Not sure if it is the winter that knocks them back but I NEVER have had any damage at all on the first flush. The subsequent flushes the miners annoy me to no end.

Thanks Bamboo rabbit! Great information, I had No idea that the first one is "freebie" from CLM,lol...maybe I'll luck out on the first growth flush and will be CLM free, that would be awesome! I HATE them as I'm sure we all do!

As you can see on this picture all the new growth are coming in SO nice and healthy and I'm trying to keep it that way, at least the first set.
{{gwi:567508}}

Nice blooms are starting to open...
{{gwi:567510}}

I've had this tree potted for about 4 years and last year decided to plant it in the ground...its a very small (dwarf) variety and I've kept it pruned to stay short while potted. Its gotten very wide though...which is fine. I really want to keep this one nice and short.

Thanks again to you both for all your help and advise.

Puglvr,

The rain stopped so looked around the yard. I have about 14 citrus varieties currently. The miners at least in my yard are funny as they definitely seem to prefer some citrus varieties over others. They absolutely love the grapefruit. I checked on it while I was out and it's first flush is miner free so far. It has newly emerging leaves out to 4" or so and they would have attacked by now.

My Meyer is loaded with blooms also.....the same 7 year old Myer John said would surely die from transplanting lol.

Goodness Nancy, first off, you are missed and second, your trees are beautiful! I hear what you are saying.

It would be nice if you could put up a barrier around the tree that them nasty critters won't cross or fly through, right?

What happens to mine is the fear of spider mites as soon as my first flush of new growth and flowers comes in the spring. I had to spray them all yesterday!

Please be happy and healthy:-)

Mike

Lucky you Bamboo...we haven't had any rain at my house since Halloween of last year (unless you count one tenth of an inch about 10 days ago). We need rain SO bad here! I think you guys have gotten the bulk of the rain. Thanks for the info, you have quite a collection. I only have a few Citrus trees ( Meyer lemon, Kumquat and a Calamondin) because ALL my neighbors have Citrus in their yard so I decided not to plant too many. Luckily all my neighbors give me all the citrus I want. I chose to plant Mangoes instead (my other favorite) although they are a LOT of work protecting in the winter, much worse than Citrus!

Hi Mike!! Thanks...you are missed as well! I'm so glad you stopped by to see my post...always very Happy to see you my good friend! Good luck with your spider mites...its always something when it comes to growing plants isn't it,lol...Never ends!

BTW, I know this poor tree won't look this good after Summer when those pesky pain in the neck CLM's comes back :o(

puglvr, if you start spraying with the combo of Neem and Spinosad in July, then spray every 3 -4 weeks through October, you can keep your trees pretty darned clear of CLM. You just need to watch your temps, as you should not use Neem over 85 degrees, or you'll you'll burn your leaves. Last year was just a terrible CLM year for me, and I missed a couple of sprayings, so I did get some damage. I back up against an abandoned and unmanaged 80 acre Valencia orange orchard, which I am sure is full of CLM plus other nasties. So, all of us in my neighborhood that grow citrus are trying to manage best we can :-(

Patty S.

Patty,

The problem is June through October EVERY day and I mean every day is in the 90's here in central Florida.

Puglvr,

It has been dry here as well though not as dry as you have been. I am assuming you are down by Tampa since you are growing mango. I plan on putting in a dwarf mango this year but I will have to dome it and heat it for those few nights it gets below freezing here every winter.

I figured, Bamboo. We have the same potential problem here in California, too. You would have to then forego the Neem, but you can still use Spinosad. However, there are have been some varying reports of CLM resistance to Spinosad now, especially in the heavier CLM states (like Calif and Florida). So, we may end up having to use something else, or just live with the ugly damage in our more mature trees.

Patty S.

Bamboo, I'm two hours south of Orlando in Highlands County. I'm really not suppose to grow Mangoes here but I'm a zone pusher,lol...I too have to cover/protect and heat them when we get those awful freezes! I have a Cogshall which is a semi dwarf...actually All my trees are dwarf due to them getting pruned every single year by the freezes :o(. I have had some luck though...I got some nice mangoes last year!

If you're looking for a nice dwarf Mango variety research
'Pickering' Mango...it stays small and is treat tasting. You can grow it in a container easily or if you decide to plant it inground...it stays small enough you can build a PVC frame cold protection for it. As a matter of fact I'm trying to find one now, but I plan on keeping mine in a container. I already have too many to protect in the winter,lol...

Here's my Semi dwarf Cogshall fruiting from last summer. Its only about 5 1/2 feet tall.
{{gwi:567512}}
This one is from my other tree from the year before.
{{gwi:567514}}

Thanks for all your help Patty...I know we are all battling this awful CLM. Guess CA and FL has the worst of it!

We sure do, puglvr, and I have to say, love your pug, my gosh! And, of course, your mango! I have a small Valencia Pride I'm nursing along. It is getting ready to flower, but it is still only about 2 feet tall, and just now branching out. And,I'm trying to grow a papaya as well, but with all our cold rains, it's the absolute worst thing for them, so hopefully it will make it through our drenching rains we're getting right now out here. Going to drop to 41 degrees tonight. That's pretty darned cold for us here in San Diego county, just 6 miles from the coast. Brrr.

Patty S.

Thanks Patty, I will let Max know he has another admirer,lol...

Good luck with your Valencia Pride mango and your Papaya as well. Hopefully, your weather warms up soon. 41 degrees is too cold for us in FL too!

When spraying w/o oil, I like to add a tbsp. of B.T. liquid/gal. Usually that means in hot weather. Even though it is not labeled for CLM my expierence is that it gives a little extra protection. I'm guessing about 20-25%, and every little bit counts when they attack. And Bamboo is right about the first flush being CLM free, maybe even the second.

Really now, do you guys think California and Florida have more CLM than Texas and Louisiana? With wild P. trifoliata in the woods and on the prairie?

B.T. only works when they first chew into the leaf. And since they only attack new growth, that doesn't leave much time to get it on. Spray when the flush is 2-4". Actually, the main reason to use this is to control leaf rollers which eat out the growing bud tips and also those orange dogs, which will eat the leaves and soft branch stems to boot.

I have not sprayed anything for two or three years. When I do it is usually to apply Micro's, which are my biggest problem. B.T. is the last ingredient to add to the tank if you are adding the metals as sulfates, because they dissolve easier in clear water.

Thanks Tantanman...you're right I should have included Texas and LA. Just one of those things that I tend to forget :o(, somehow my brain takes me to FL and CA when it comes to Citrus.

Thanks again for your advise and help. Once the tree gets more established I won't have to spray much since CLM are ALL over my neighborhood, I just wanted to give my newly planted tree some advantage to grow and hopefully be strong and healthy enough to survive CLM.

tantanman, just in sheer numbers of citrus affected, and numbers of trees treated, tantaman :-) Sadly, I have heard reports now that CLM in certain areas is becoming resistant to Spinosad, which is considered organic. I believe those areas are California and Florida, again, due to numbers of trees treated, and amount of exposure to the Spinosad. I'll have to see how this goes in my area. I'm going to start spraying in July, through October. I have not been vigilant, but with the number of new citrus trying to recover from our also awful micronutrient issues, I want to try to give them a chance to develop a decent, unaffected flush of new leaves. And this is also how Spinosad works, too. Which is why you need to re-apply. Some folks are using Bayer Advanced Fruit, Citrus & Vegetable Insect Control (Imidicloprid), which is systemic. If you time it correctly, it is relatively safe, and will keep CLM at bay. Not organic, though, for those who are using strict organic practices.

Patty S.

Patty:
I wish they had Bayer Advanced when I had lots of young trees. CLM can keep them from growing. Just discard the fruit and the tree will mature faster anyway. I know it is hard for some to do. Baby trees look so good and grow so good with Imidicloprid.

Larry

I know, sigh... I'm paying the price of not doing that the first year. I have 100% affected new growth on some of my new trees it is so bad here. The only reason I hesitate is I seem to be having issues with citrus mite. Can't see the little buggers, but my leaves on several of my trees have that very classic stippled look. Imidicloprid can make mite infestation worse. So, this weekend I'm going to evaluate each tree, and treat those that show stippling with some sort of miticide (soapy water did not work). Frustrated a wee bit right now. But in July, I'm definitely treating everything citrus with Bayer Advanced for sure. Tired of dealing with the massive CLM attacks.

Patty S.

Hello guys, unfortunately ALL by blooms fell off :o( I did spray them with Neem and a drop or two of Murphy's oil soap, which "may" have caused the blooms to drop. Anyways, do you think it will re-bloom again in a few weeks or am I done for the year. The tree has only been planted about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago in the ground, so not exactly established. Thanks!

Lemon trees frequently re-bloom, and bloom off and on all season. Why did you spray your tree with Murphy's Oil Soap???

Patty S.

Hi Patty, I only used a drop or two...I've read several posts and links that its safe to use Murphy's oil soap as an ingredient for homemade insecticide...if you read the link below (paragraph 4 I think) it says you can use MOS.

Thanks, I hope mine re-blooms again in a few weeks.

One of several post here in GW about Murphy's
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tips/msg0614480815865.html

Here is a link that might be useful: Murphy's oil soap...

Okay. You can just use Dawn, too. But, I think Spinosad will do a much better job for you than any detergent will. Hopefully you won't see any CLM until summer time. I tend to see them here in Calif. around late July/August. I try to do my first spraying at the end of July, and if the temps behave, I'll add Neem. If not, I can only use the Spinosad. I am going to spray this year for sure.

Patty S.

Thanks again Patty!

Does Murphy's oil soap use lye or potassium hydroxide to soaponfy the "oil"? Soaps made from potassium are generally liquids whether made from oil or more typcally from tallow or lard. The potassium soap would be far less toxic to plants than soap from lye which is caustic soda (sodium hydroxide).

Note a soluble soap is an alkalai metal salt of a fatty acid.

I used to buy concentrated Safer Soap in just about any nursery but now all I find is the premixed 1% or so and that formulation just is not practical to use as a base mix in my 3 gal sprayer.

I have heard really bad things about using Dawn except as a spreader/sticker in herbicides. Most detergents don't list the active ingredients now days.

I found this on the internet...I don't see "lye" but it does list "POTASSIUM SOAP OF VEGETABLE OIL" as the main ingredient...I've not had any problems using Murphy's on other plants, but apparently I shouldn't have used it on the blooms?

Here is a link that might be useful: Murphy's Oil Soap Ingredients...

A relative who has a citrus orchard in Florida recommended that we spray our citrus trees in February with 6 Tablespoons of dormant oil (or vegetable oil) in a pint of water . Can anyone confirm that this is an acceptable practice?

I have been advised by several that I need not spray at all because there are no problems. Thanks to all who answered.

Agreed. Why spray if you have no current issues. Even with organic products. Save yourself some time and effort. And a few bucks. :-)

Patty S.

We have a nine month old, six foot high Mexican (Key) Lime tree which has been plagued by Citrus Leaf Miner (CLM) every flush which has almost devastated the tree.

I've been using about 1/3 cup of Murphy's Oil Soap diluted in a liter water spray bottle for about three weeks, and it has worked miracles. (Every three days - or sooner, next morning after a rain). I spray both sides of the leaves.

Now only about 5% to 10% of the new leaves are infested. The vast majority are growing to maturity, and, of course, once the leaves are hardened, they're much less vulnerable. The tree looks great. I'm a believer - thank you Murphy's!

Hi William, I had no idea Murphy's oil soap helps that much with CLM's , good to know! Thanks for the dosage info also...