I forgot to mention a few things. I saw some new things on these plants beyond the obvious frost damage and maybe someone can help identify them in case against all odds these plants survive:

I've never seen these on any of my plants before and I'm not sure if it's related to the frost or if this is some kind of canker/fungus? {{gwi:567633}}From Citrus Fiasco

I also trimmed off a few leaves that were stuck together by what looked like a nest of cobwebs. Sadly I didn't take a picture but it was maybe 2 inches by 3 inches - covered the entire surface of the 2 leaves and looked pretty horrid. Was that a mites nest or something? I've seen mealybugs before and it didn't really look like that and I didn't see any mealybugs anywhere else on any of the plants but that's the only whiteish pest I've seen on any of my citrus before...

Thanks for any help!

They look like they could make it. Its really hard to say though right now. Only time will tell. Any reason why you did not order from Four Winds Growers? They are considered to be the best by many and their pieces are lower.

I have only ever lived in Ca and AZ which are both Citrus States. It truly amazes me what citrus cost in other states or purchased on-line. Those trees would $ 24.99 each purchased locally.

I should have used Four Winds - I assume you've used them before? Then in addition to having non-frozen plants I would be able to pot them in the gritty mix I'm trying to put together.

I wonder if anyone in zone 6 has used Al's gritty mix with citrus? Will it work indoors and out in this zone? Will it work on my very old lemon trees (10+ years I believe now, very large trunks for container citrus)?

Here are some pictures of the trees 2 days later. They are all under cool white fluorescents near south to south-east facing windows. They have been in 65 degrees since coming in from the garage for their 10 hour stay. I've been misting them twice daily making sure that the humidity stays up but making sure they are dry before the lights go out. The valencia orange looks like it might make it - the others look much less viable to me.

Clementine:
{{gwi:567634}}From Citrus Fiasco
{{gwi:567635}}From Citrus Fiasco

Bearss Lime:
{{gwi:567636}}From Citrus Fiasco
{{gwi:567637}}From Citrus Fiasco

Meyer Lemon: {{gwi:567638}}From Citrus Fiasco

Valencia Orange: {{gwi:567639}}From Citrus Fiasco

Early Washington Navel Orange: {{gwi:567641}}From Citrus Fiasco

This is my opinion, so you can take it for what it is worth.

Your intent when you outlaid $485 was to purchase what appears to be 2-3 year old healthy trees with the vitality to begin their life in your care with the highest degree of success. This is hard enough to do in a 6a environment. What arrived at your doorstep is not what you ordered. In good faith, you also questioned the timing of the shipment with the current cold weather and your worries were placated. Whether or not these trees survive is really not your concern, you need to pursue reimbursement or replacement immediately. At best, you will have extremely inferior trees for several years to come, without the reserves inherent in the purchase that you made. The nursery needs to be made aware of this and if you sent them the pictures that you showed us, they would not be able to disagree. They would never accept such a product when they place and order. If they refuse, let them know that you will call your credit card company and begin proceedings to reverse charges. If there is a dispute between them and FedEx, that is their dispute, not yours. It will be time consuming, but that is your only option if they do not reimburse/replace in its entirety.

Barb

What I don't understand is how or why any internet plant marketing company with good reports would even agree to or want to ship any kind of plant in the middle of the winter to a known cold as it is zone 6a.
Regardless of the $$ amount I am usually advised by the internet shop sites I shop is they WONT ship until Mid March at the earliest This is to protect many things including, plant health, my satisfaction and company reputation.

I was wondering about shipping, too. Doesn't make sense to me that a company would send out a bunch of nice looking plants at this time of year.

Be advised that misting doesn't do much of anything to raise the humidity for your plants. It simply wets the foliage for a little while. The benefits of misting (for that purpose) is something of a myth. Misting can also create a perfect habitat for a wide variety of plant diseases, too.

The exception to the misting benefit would be if you had your plants in a location where you could wet down the floor, walls, etc. THEN, you'd see a rise in the humidity.

You should think about obtaining a small humidifier for the plant room, grouping them fairly close together in the same room, and other means of truly raising the moisture levels in the air. Some of the growers here have small, bubbling fountains.

no way I would accept that, even if they do recover as Barb said they will be far less of a tree than what you ordered.

+1 for disputing payment unless they send replacement trees. I would get a replacement guarantee in writing and not accept delivery until spring.

Mike

Thanks for your input everyone. I basically agree with Barb and Mike that this is not at all what I ordered. And it is true that the reason I didn't pickup some citrus from Home Depot or anywhere locally is because they are generally very poor quality or ungrafted plants. The few nurseries that have them here don't take very good care of them before they sell them. The reason I spent so much money was that I wanted to have the nice ones on dwarf stock that would fruit relatively soon.

The problem is that I feel like the nursery has a $500 hold over me. At this point I really would just want my money back but it seemed unlikely based on my initial conversation that they would be willing to do anything like that. Has anyone ever gotten their money back from a mail order plant? Should I just get loud and demanding? I just fear that if I become insistent that even the offer of replacement plants will go away and then I'm stuck with nothing for $500.

Anyway, thanks for the advice.

Barb and Mike read my thoughts!

I would return them immediately and wait till spring. In factWhat a shame to see those trees suffer like that.

Mike

I agree with the others...Fight to get new plants or a refund!

Josh

The damage to the trees is much more evident now. I agree with what everyone else is saying. You paid a premium price and have a right to expect premium trees.

If they offered to re-ship I don't think they are going to willingly give you a refund. If they value their reputation they might though. Don't get nasty with them though as that never helps. Just tell them you paid a premium price for premium tree and explain what you are dealing with and offer to email them the pictures. Then tell them what you want. If you want a re-ship in the spring then tell them so. If you want a refund then tell them so. If you don't get what you want don't go ballistic. You want to keep them on good terms. If all else fails you could even try to negotiate for a partial refund for your time and trouble and a re-ship in spring.

I agree with thisisme. Keep this as a business encounter. Don�t get upset. You do in fact have the upper hand, so relax. If you purchased via credit card, then your card provider should side with you based on the evidence you provided and the documentation you produced. This means a full refund if you desire including shipping/taxes etc.

Why? Because unless you file disputes frequently your card provider wants to keep you happy. They really don�t care about the seller as long as what you are asking is not unreasonable and not an everyday occurrence. You can walk away from the Credit card company for poor service but the vendor cannot. The vendor will not likely cancel their relationship with your card provider because of this one incident. And even if the vendor did, the provider has to transfer money to them on a daily basis to settle up accounts, and can withhold as much of that payment as they want to. Then it is a fight between the vendor and the credit card company and you have your money back.

So, you can request a total refund and re-order in the spring. That is what I would do. The vendor should not even flinch at making that happen if they view the pictures are half way reasonable. When you call make sure you escalate to the VP of Sales if the customer service agent does not agree to your request. I am almost 100% certain that will get the job done. Make sure and document your calls. Make sure your write down and explain in detail what you want.

If the vendor refuses, then go log in or call your credit card company. Ironically, I had to file a dispute with Capital One. It is so easy I logged in a did it in 2 minutes. Because I haven�t had a dispute in over 5 years, I had the credit in my account within 12 hours. So in fact, this can be pretty painless and resolved quickly. Ain�t technology grand?

Good luck, I am sure it will work out for you.

jwh

One caution, I agree with everything that jwh said, however, if you wait until after you pay your credit card bill, all bets are off. If you read the fine print, it is for the unpaid balance of the disputed charges. This is why it is prudent to proceed quickly.

Barb

Hi everyone. Thanks for the replies and advice. I spoke with the owner (John) today and he has promised to reship me new plants in 3-4 weeks. He offered to do so sooner but I want to wait and make sure we don't repeat the problem. I didn't press for a refund because he seems so nice on the phone. I'm fine waiting the 3-4 weeks and sticking with Clifton's so long as I get the nice plants that I paid for.

He did ask to see some photographs of what they look like now so I took a bunch more today. Here are a few of them - I'm wondering if anyone knows what the white stuff is on these branches? It was hard to photograph well since I have to get pretty close for it to be clear (which makes them blurry since I can't keep my hand perfectly still) but there are a few good ones that illustrate the problem. {{gwi:567643}}From Citrus Trees - 2011-02-14
{{gwi:567645}}From Citrus Trees - 2011-02-14
{{gwi:567647}}From Citrus Trees - 2011-02-14

You can see the white on the Early Washington Navel in this wide angle shot in the upper left, upper right, and other places if you look closely. This stuff is on all the new (I'd say under 1 year) growth on most of the plants. The Valencia seems to have escaped most of the white stuff. Also the clementine doesn't have nearly as much as the others. All of the new growth on these is brittle and will snap right off if I brush against it and any remaining leaves are dead except for 4-5 on the Valencia. When I scratch into any of the branches there is no moisture though it is still white inside. The plants haven't been watered since the initial watering to get the soil back around the roots and the soil is still uniformly moist on all of them (ie: no moisture uptake from roots). {{gwi:567649}}From Citrus Trees - 2011-02-14

Clementine
{{gwi:567651}}From Citrus Trees - 2011-02-14

Bearss Lime:
{{gwi:567652}}From Citrus Trees - 2011-02-14

Improved Meyer
{{gwi:567653}}From Citrus Trees - 2011-02-14

Valencia
{{gwi:567654}}From Citrus Trees - 2011-02-14

There are more pics in the linked album.

A primrose to keep things happy and because it's Valentine's Day:
{{gwi:567655}}From Citrus Trees - 2011-02-14

Here is a link that might be useful: Web album of frozen citrus 10 days later

redshirtcat if Clifton's follows through with the re-ship then they have totally redeemed themselves in my eyes. The trees they sent look like they would be premium quality if they had not been damaged. The white you are seeing is frost damage.

John at Clifton's nursery has decided to refund my money in full. He came through and said that he has written a check which will be in the mail tomorrow for the full amount. He read this forum and saw the pictures and decided that this was the best course of action.

I am very satisfied with this result and would do business with him in the future. Thanks for the advice everyone. He really was very nice on the phone. My fears about asking for a refund were unfounded and they really do stand behind their products.

Sounds like a real good guy who runs a real good business. Kudos to John and Clifton's and congratulations to redshirtcat.

Very good to hear. This is as it should be. I am glad that he came here, saw the pictures, and did not hesitate to acknowledge the problem. That is how you would hope a nursery would do business. Come spring, a reorder is definitely in order, should you still be looking to continue to expand your citrus tree inventory.

Barb

I am happy to see the resolution of your issues. I have bought from this nursery before and had good plants and good service from them.
One suggestion regarding your frozen plants - if you put them indoors and feed them Kelp water (mixed according to the instructions on the bottle) for a month while making sure that they never dry out between waterings (also helps to spray the trunk with it), there might be a small chance that some (or atleast one of them) could be rescued from the jaws of death.
Good luck.