Some HD's stock plants from well known reputable nurseries. Others/(Most) stock trees from the lowest priced wholesale providers whose trees and plants are often mislabeled.

If we assume the trees are what they say they are and they are all grafted on appropriate rootstocks they look fine. In fact those tall narrow pots are far better than the pots trees are sold in from Longees and your trees are much bigger too. If however the $ 20.00 versions are larger and the trees even nicer and if the slightly higher price is not an issue I would go with the bigger ones. But thats just me. I paid $ 64.95 for 7' tall 3.5'+ wide Clementine Mandarin though so you can see where my sentiments are.

Well, the $20 ones are shorter, but have more branches, and the branches are more developed as well, as well as far more fruits.

But the $15 ones, are almost twice as tall, and their branches are considerably shorter. They also are very spindly, and I worry that they'd break if they weren't tied up. On the other hand, I think I could see how they could develop in to nice trees.

I think my eyes would just about fall out of my head if I saw a clementine that was 7' for sale around here (Washington state)- and I'd expect it to be priced more like 100 to 200.

choices, choices we all have to make them. Larger blanches and bigger pots should mean more fruit quicker. If you prefer a tree form over bush form then the ones you have may be better.

I don't live in Washington state but I would assume a local tree and plant nursery that sells citrus trees would have nicer trees than HD. If not the trees you have and the trees you describe don't look or sound too awful bad and appear better than many I have seen posted on this forum.

{{gwi:581173}}

Sorry, it was just easier to look here..:-)

You could be so lucky!! If they ever sold just one citrus up here, I would buy it if it looked like yours! Beautiful.
Mike..:-)

In my area, those narrow long pots are "semi-dwarf" varieties and the larger pots like yours are "true dwarf" varieties. If you read the tags carefully and you might find that information somewhere.

The tags are remarkably un-useful, at least to my eye. Here's what they say:

Clementine De Nules Mandarin
Seedles, juicy fruit and high fruit quality
The most widely grown 'Clementine' in Spain

And then, on another tag:
09-1880 LM-NCXXDN-CCSDWG-CC 4/7/09
Clementine De Nules / Citrage C-35

I guess the last line might be helpful, I'm guessing that it could be labeling the budwood and the rootstock? Maybe?

I'm thinking I'll go back and get the shorter versions, as they will be indoors, and I am rather eager to get fruit- though I know that won't be until winter. Thanks for all the help so far!

The 4"x12" pots are called "citri-pots" and are used by lots of nurseries, including TreeSource. At least in their case, there's no difference regarding dwarf/semi-dwarf/full based on pot size -- they use the citri-pots for all varieties, so I wouldn't make any decisions regarding final plant size based on the fact that they're in citri-pots.

Citrange C-35 is a common semidwarf rootstock.

Have you taken one look at the roots? I'll be very surprised if the two very tall plants don't have very over grown and unhappy root systems. That kind of plant is NEVER a good buy, unless you know how to root prune. Even at that, I'd not keep them without an inspection. If the root system is healthy, well-branched, yet not over crowded then all should be fine.

If unsure about the general condition of the root ball, post some good images before sticking them back in the pot. Don't leave the plants exposed for more than a few moments.

Well, how do these look:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8K-D9nqNpDg/S8KNbw2uRjI/AAAAAAAAA08/lPchFtVEe1M/s640/citrus%20004.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_8K-D9nqNpDg/S8KNa2jt-DI/AAAAAAAAA00/M7dSEAmBhno/s640/citrus%20002.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8K-D9nqNpDg/S8KNbVoQY_I/AAAAAAAAA04/UJs9ZEe0dhQ/s640/citrus%20003.JPG

They don't look horrible, but then I'm not experienced at judging citrus root balls.

The plants look healthy and roots look fine to me. For such small root systems they have and how healthy they look the trees must love those pots and the soil they are in. I have heard lots of people rave about how well trees do after planting that come in this kind of pots. The rootballs look exceptionally dry though so if you are going to keep them I suggest watering them right away.

Someone on these forums has been saying that citrus roots tend to grow shallow and spread out. It was even recommended that citrus be planted in shallow pots..I am a bit confused.

If this is the case, then why are those roots so deep and long?

All mine are in small, or shallow pots.

Anyways, great looking plants..

MIke

meyermike I totally agree that citrus roots are shallow. Something like 90% are said to be within 2' of the surface soil. I don't think these roots are any deeper than that.

Let's remember that we can't compare the root systems of container grown trees to those planted in situ. They will behave in a completely different way.

Nearly all soil-planted woody plants have shallow roots as their predominant functioning root system. It's simple: it is in the uppermost layers of soil where most of the oxygen, available water, essential microorganisms, gas exchange, and more occurs. That part of the root system (non woody) which takes advantage of all of the must remain at the surface. A healthy fibrous root system is strong enough to support huge trees.

The roots of a plant confined to a container, however, will happily fill the entire volume of potting medium, given time. Assuming that the potting medium is well drained and porous, too. The roots growing in those long, narrow pots are simply reacting to the sides of the container....that's all.

Much research has gone into the science of nursery containers, believe it or not. Shapes, depth, taper, color, material, and on and on. Narrow and tapered has been popular for many years in the trade, though we are just now beginning to see them on the retail market. In the past (and still today), plants were rooted in such containers, then transplanted into traditions pots for growing on and for sale.

If you plan on repotting those two, I'd cut off the lower third of the root system before hand. The other plant looks like it will be happy in its existing container for some time. Not a lot of root development, as yet.

I sure would like to see you switch over to a potting medium that offers a LOT more porosity than what I see in those images. Vigorous root development and branching (root branching) requires plenty of oxygen. The typical, overly-peaty packaged potting mix just doesn't cut it.

Tall form Citrus containers are used by citrus nurseries to quickly grow tall trees. They are likely used with a certain rootstock to get the most out of this. Thats why I use several seedlings in a 5 gal container instead of srarting one in a 1 gal.
A nurseryman once told us "when the roots grow down the tree grows." Dont cut the roots. You'll just set back the tree.

If you cut the roots on trees that size you are just asking for trouble.

Nah...container grown trees can have their roots pruned without problems. Those are babies...they'll benefit from the root pruning before being transplanted.

Believe me, it's not just plants that are grown as bonsai that benefit from annual (or so) root pruning. For most container grown trees and shrubs, it's a huge benefit.

Don't forget what pruning does: it STIMULATES new growth. This is true for the roots as well. Get rid of the older part of the root system and lots and lots of new roots will develop. That always means root hair cells. That means major benefits for the plant.

rhizo 1 I think I will just have to agree to disagree. Citrus in general do not respond nearly as well to pruning as deciduous fruit trees. With citrus you prune only to control size and shape not to encourage new growth. The only reason to root prune citrus is if they are root bound. That does not appear to be the case here. There is still plenty of room for roots in the existing pots.

The 'OTHER' reason to root prune citrus (and most other woodies) is to get rid of old roots and let the plant create a mass of new, young fibrous roots. Root pruning with a sharp instrument that cuts rather than mashes the roots will result in an impressive flush of new roots. This process begins within hours.

You can certainly disagree, but the only reason you are doing so is because you are simply not informed of this technique or the physiology behind it. Mind you, I am not talking about top pruning during this discussion, only root pruning. Though I must say that top pruning of citrus (and other plants) will cause the lateral buds to break aplenty. Time of year matters, though.

Root pruning, though scary (yikes) for the inexperienced, will almost always result in lots of new top growth...a new lease on life, so to speak. It can be done long before the container gets too crowded; as a matter of fact it SHOULD be done before the root gets too crunched.

I root prune nearly all of my tropical house plants and my outdoor permanent container grown woodies. Citrus can be cut back a bunch on the sides and the bottom and then put back into the same container with fresh potting medium. Most people trim the roots back by a third or so, but I can personally testify to the fact that much more than that can be cut back at any given procedure.

Of course, the potting mix is important. New roots will regenerate much more quickly with a medium that is coarse, fast draining, and extremely porous.

rhizo 1 I'm sure you are right about root pruning in general and you may be right here too. I have not done a lot of root pruning so my personal experience level is low. Perhaps my thinking is just colored by my growing outdoors under a hostile desert environment. When I look at those pictures it just does not look like there are any roots to spare.

Thisisme, it's easy to forget that container grown plants and field-grown plants live by a different set of 'rules'. So much of what is recommended for one environment just won't work very well for the other.

If you ever want to experiment with root pruning on one of your containerized plants, I'd be more than happy to walk you through it. It's not nearly as risky as it might sound. Or I wouldn't be doing it, lol!

Rhizo, I am ready for help and a new experience..

I KNOW you know what you are talking about...Your experience and ideas has got me this far..Wish I could go to one of your classes, so anything here I can derive from you is a blessing.

I also have never done this before..Since spring is starting and I have plenty of citrus to play with, I would like to try this on one that has been stunted for 2 years now...

Can I use your help in private or here? I will even include pics of progress? It would be on a rebellious "ponderosa lemon" tree..

Hope to here from you soon.

Sincerely Yours,

Me..:-)

Well, I'll give the root pruning a go then- since these trees are going to get the best care I can provide.

I read somewhere that for potted citrus, you should water them once a week, as opposed to those in the ground, which get watered monthly. Is that correct? Or should I just go by how dry their soil is?

No.

You should water as needed..

Many different factors will determine how fast your soil mix dries out, but, in all cases, you should let the soil dry out, then water thoroughly till the water drains out from underneath.:-)

I would love to learn about root pruning citrus by watching meyermike root prune his tree and watch the results. Getting a bunch of new feeder roots to grow can only be a good thing.

OK, we'll work on it Mike, and you can post pictures.

Ecologystudent's will be easy. Get your new containers ready with a good, coarse, porous mix in the bottom and a pile ready for backfill.

Remove the tree from the container and gently shake out as much of the existing potting medium as possible. You can poke and prod at the root ball, it won't scream. Some suggest that you wash all of the soil off, but I don't do that.

Lay the plant down on a cutting surface and remove at least 1/4 to 1/3 of the roots from the bottom. Watch out for all the blood! (just kidding) You might find, when you shake them up a bit, that you can simply hold up the plant in one hand and take a pair of sharp scissors to the bottom most roots. This will be more like a quick trim off the bottom rather than the slicing that is required for a more developed root system.

Repot immediately into the new container with the fresh, porous mix. Water thoroughly.

Watering should always be done on an 'as-needed- basis, as Mike says. Even in ground plantings shouldn't be tied to some sort of arbitrary calendar schedule. Container grown plants will vary in their watering needs depending upon lots and lots of factors, such as type of container, type of potting medium, size of the plant compared to container, health and vigor of plant, time of year, temperature, humidity, blah, blah. Use your fingers to judge when watering is required. When it is time to water, do so generously. Little sips are detrimental to the root/soil system.

Don't let newly root pruned plants dry out too much between drenchings. Give them a few weeks to get caught up.

Ok so this is not a sever root pruning its more of a trim. I can easily see how this can be beneficial to the formation of fine feeder roots. We have butted heads a few times rhizo 1 but let me be the first to say; Thank you.

When new trees arrive I have always looked for broken or damaged roots to prune. When I re-pot I always try to score or root prune trees that are root bound. I have also heard Al talk about root pruning to get the root system to spread out for shallow container culture. Here is just one more reason to root prune.

Can't wait to see how Mike's tree responds.

Ok, another question- if my garden center doesn't have citrus specific soil- would cactus mix with some added organic material of some sort work? Maybe mix it with my garden soil, which is sandy, but has a lot of organic matter?

Adding organic matter never helped me, in fact killed my citrus over a short period of time, especially in the winter..

Add in "organic"...Perlite, very course sand if you must, crushed granite, or yes, "organic", sorry, BARK....

Leave the garden dirt and sandy sand and other composty materilas out of your pots, or you will be inviting a host of problems, such as pests, in particular, "fungas gnats" and "spider mites", then root rot, compaction of your mix, a very water retentive medium, and yada yada...

The more porous and open your mix is the better. Some take that cactus and citrus soil you are talking about and use half perlite and half that stuff at the best..It still holds to much water far too long for me..

Hope this helps...

Rhizzo, I will post a pic and a seperate thread for your help very shortly..Thank you so much for agreeing and your kindness..You even get a nose on your smilie..:o-)

Mike..:)

"Add in "organic"...Perlite, very course sand if you must, crushed granite, or yes, "organic", sorry, BARK"....

Sorry,it should read...."ADD IN INORGANIC"...:-)

thisisme, you'll find this interesting: there have been some studies done on other ways to improve a container grown plant's success upon transplanting. Besides scoring, the studies showed that a real root prune (slicing some off the bottom AND the sides) had some great benefits in producing lots of new root development outside the root ball. That's the exact mimic of what is done in container gardening.

On ecologystudent's two tall and skinny plants, which don't have much of a root system, he should do no more than a slight trim off the ends. For a plant with a more developed root mass, we will take whole slices from the bottom and from the sides.

There's no better way to expand on knowledge than to 'butt heads' occasionally. So, I will thank YOU, too!

ecology student...do as Mike says: leave the outdoor soil out of your container plants. He cites all of the reasons. You won't find a citrus potting mix, I guess a cactus blend would be okay. I've ever really looked at one. You might add a little bit of a regular potting soil to the cactus blend. Packaged potting medium is mostly peat, which is your organic matter component.

Ecologystudent,

I have a bunch of those as well, and am dying to know how yours (or anyone else who bought them) are doing! I can't find anyone one else who has tried them.

I bought them mid July when they were on clearance for $3 a piece. (I know, right?) Repotted in good appropriate soil and most did great - new growth, etc right away. Now they just sit there and look at me and do NOTHING. But maybe they're just winding down for the year. One (just one) has done nothing since I brought it home. To be fair, if they were marked down that low, they weren't terribly happy to start out with. Overall, they are still horrifically spindly, but I'm holding out hope for next spring.

How are yours doing? Are they still growing? any fruit? I don't know how to tell if mine are happy or not without any point of comparison.

K