Zone 5a NO-NO-NO WAY-NO. I am having good luck with figs and kumquats under CFL's in inclosed lighting systems. Inner city Cincinnasti is zone 6.8 and I have to grow in side in the winter. Try a meiwa kumquat if you try any thing. The flesh is mild sweet with a hint of tart and the peal is sweet. Thats right you eat the peal. Pluck and eat. It is the most cold hardy of the sweet citrus"actually called fortunella" fruits. They are smaller than a golf ball. It is easy to grow more pounds in small fruits than big fruits especially when the plant is on its fringe range. Citrus is Cheap and common. However kumquats are rare and expensive. If you are going to put in the fantastic amount of time on a citrus, put in in something that is rare and special. The meiwa is the best out of hand kumquat to eat. I grew my meiwa tree from seed, Here are some pics of the tree. Click on the picture to open photobucket then use your keyboard arrow keys to navigate

{{gwi:576136}}

SEED GROWN MEIWA KUMQUAT TREE

If money is not a problem. GET A GRAFTED TREE-- If you injoy tinkering then try growing from seed from a fruit from the market. they come up true to the tree it came from.

Here are som pictures of the equipment I used.

{{gwi:576119}}
{{gwi:570204}}
{{gwi:39904}}

for thumb nail click link below

One more question.I looked at the map, and I think you may have ment to list your zone as 7a, not 5a as ikt is listed for your area of interest

Here is a link that might be useful: https://plus.google.com/photos/111099372377958308731/albums/profile?banner=pwa

Are you referring to just in ground or in containers? Even in southern NJ, you will be severely limited to what you can grow in the ground. Pretty much any citrus can be grown in containers as long as you provide adequate conditions for them over the winter. I've heard some unverified rumors of yuzu withstanding zone 6-7 winters but I have no verifiable evidence. The most reliable option for outdoors in ground is poncirus trifoliata, a decidous citrus relative, which unfortunately is extremely bitter with very little juice and lots of seeds.

Kristopher

When it come to citrus, THERE ARE A LOT OF CITRUS SCAMS ON EBAY. Ii WOULD STAY AWAY UNLESS YOUR A CITRUS TREE GURU WITH GURU KNOWLEDGE. There are some good deals

I'd be growing it in the ground. Just to clarify I realize my current gardening zone is 5; I also know that where I live there isn't a prayer of a chance of citrus growing (live in northern MI). However I wasn't referring to the gardening zone I live in currently, nor was I referring to growing citrus in the area where I live.

The things I'd like to grow with citrus would be yuzu, sudachi, and kuboshi (all are certainly not common fare with citrus; they are Japanese varieties)

I heard in their native climate (the mountainous regions of Japan) they grow well. This is why I'm considering growing them. The only other thing I'd like to grow is
a satsuma (Japanese mandarin) and some sort of oriental tangerine (if possible)

I don't mind if the options I have are limited, as I'm not big on citrus; however I only want to grow about 3-5 varieties, which I listed.

Here is a link regarding the Japanese citrus fruit...

http://mckenzie-farms.com/photo.htm

You'll have to manually copy and paste the link into your web browser.

I say go ahead and try. Allo you have to loose is money. Make sure that every thing is grafted to poncirus trifoliata or it's fraternal twins flying dragon. Take a look at plantfolks nursery in south carolina. you can take a vacation on Hilton head island then drive right by http://plantfolks.com/ and pick up your trees on the way home. The link below is also a good place

Here is a link that might be useful: http://mckenzie-farms.com/photo.htm

If you take the address that you provided ( http://mckenzie-farms.com/photo.htm ) and paste in in the boxes marked.
Optional Link URL:
and the box
Name of the Link:

It will show up as a clickable link

Watch this

Here is a link that might be useful: http://plantfolks.com/

Go ahead and give it a try. Could you send me a clickable link to fourwinds citrus people

--------------------------------------MEIWA SELF------------------------------------

If that is a 'hair dryer' at the bottom of that citrus Poncirus, then I am truly amazed at your ability to come up with unique ideas!

By the way, I love that Cactus the Cyclops..lol

Mike

a few questions...

where would be the best place to plant the citrus trees?
I'm going to assume against a building would be good, but I also want it to get sun.

Also what is meant by hardiness? According to the site given it says they can last a few hours in extreme temps.

However it also said that if they've been there awhile they'd be more hardy to the cold temps and able to survive them longer, due to becoming acclimated and adapted to the cold climate.

I can understand a new immature tree not being able to survive very cold temps for a while and/or a mature (older)one that has just been planted.

However what about trees that have been there for awhile?

What would I have to do to protect the trees?
I'd like for this to be as easy as possible to do as I'mm horrible with building things.

I would plant them in a protected area against a building on the south side. And yes as a tree gets more established it will be able to withstand colder temperatures but you will probably have to protect it pretty well for the first few winters. Also, even though it is a warmer climate, there's still a possibility of an extreme winter that will kill a tree no matter what, although this is less likely if you plant an extremely hardy variety. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. I've always wanted to try it but I've been afraid to take the plunge for some reason!

Kristopher

If your house has a south wall, plant your trees near it. things to consider in growing citrus. citrus prefer long hot summers with spring before and a fall after. Please note, CITRUS DON'T LIKE WINTER FOR ANYTHING MORE THAN A VERY SHORT REST. What we get is a quick spring , 3 month summer, quick fall, and a gruesome winter that just wont quit. What I do and you will need to do is set up a light and heating grow chamber that your tree will spend 7 months a year in. It is this where my tree did 2/3 of it growth. not in the summer I expected it do do You can grow some varieties out side in ground but you will wait decades before it amounts to any thing I will be growing my trees like this for 3-5 years to get them big and producing before I put them out permanently in ground. When the trees are in planters you will do good to provide aeration to the roots. My plants increased growth after I started root aeration. It sounds like your knowledgeable on what variety to try. While the trees may go way below freezing, The fruit is destroyed just a little below freezing so you'll need an early ripening veriety. check the pictures out.
{{gwi:39907}}
The meiwa kumquat tree fits in this double decker foiled bucket light system.

{{gwi:576588}}
the seedling tree fits inside the longer coffee cup while a hair dryer fits the other end to aerate the roots
{{gwi:576119}}

The larger seed grown meiwa kumquat tree fits the components below.
{{gwi:582645}}
The meiwa tree to the right fits in the can to the left and the hair dryer is pressed against the side hole to aerate the roots.
{{gwi:576589}}
This shows the set up of the complete system.

the link below links to a successfull citrus variety in zone 6 b, Up your ally

Mike:

Thanks for the compiment and you are right ,it is a hair dryer

Here is a link that might be useful: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/citrus/msg0413465229079.html?10

When I say growing the citrus fruit, I'd be growing it in zone 7b. The growing season for New Jersey, which is where I plan to grow it, has a growing season of 6-7 months.

The gardening zone and area I'm at the moment has a very harsh and cold clmate. THhe growing season doesn't even start till the end of May, and it's about 4-5 months long.

However I don't plan to grow the citrus fruit in my current gardening zone, which is only 5a.
The worst months for it would be Jan and Feb, and possibly March.

When I asked if I could plant it directly in the ground, I was referring to southern NJ which where I plan to grow it is in a coastal area and has a growing season of 6-7 months.

How would you make this chamber to grow it in?
If I am growing in an area that has a growing season of 6-7 months, would I need to keep it in there for 7 months?

Also could you please post pictures of this growing chamber, or is what you posted what you're referring to (regarding the grow chamber).

Hi

I am aware that you are speaking of cape may area of 7b climate. In cincinnati we have 6- 7 month growing time. Last year my frost sensitive sumer plants were out in early april and died november 2nd week of. My citrus being tropical when out in may and back in september so that the plants would remain at a warm growing temperature. Even though my tomatoes, peppers, squash, watermelon,and eggplants have been out for a week, My citrus won't go out for another 2 weeks depending on temps. If the root base cools below 55 degrees over night and the next morning you get bright sun, the roots will be unable to supply the leaves with fluid and the tree can loose its leaves (WLD). Citrus store it energy reserves in its leaves so you don't want to loose them before there time. What ends up happening is you get about 2 months worth of true citrus weather, 2 more month of acceptable and 2 month of mediocre at best and 6 months of absolute trash weather. End results you get the equivalent of 3 month of growth at best in 7a/7b. Thats me and you. Cincinnati/Cap May.

Here is what I'm doing I started the trees in drink cup as seedling and placed a 5 gallon bucket equipped with a CFL in a ceramic light socket.
{{gwi:576588}}
one in center with up to 6 around. an upside down 5 gallon bucket will fit over top.
{{gwi:39904}}
The yellow foil lined bucket was placed over top of the 6 trees in the top picture. The fig tree was 1 inch tall and the yellow bucket was used for it when I was growing it. when the tree got too tall, another bucket was foil lined and the bottom cut out to boost the light higher. the foil lined bucket goes over the fig tree right side up then the yellow foil lined bucket fits over top upside down to make the grow chamber. The light provide heat and light. for the tree and hold in the humidity necessary for the citrus tree

{{gwi:39907}}
The same two buckets are used on my kumquat tree. Stilts had to be added to accommodate the taller tree

{{gwi:576587}}
the bucket light chamber over its plant. In this picture it is the fig tree

{{gwi:25857}}
This is a grow camber 4 ft by 4ft by 2 feet The walls are made out of drywall each of 4 wall 4 ft by 2ft. The floor is made out of a 4 ft by 4 ft sheet plywood attached to a 2 by 4 frame. the top use a 4 by 4 sheet of ply wood with a 2 by 2 ft access hole. All these material was trash from a construction site so I use was is available. I don't use drawing or plans or I would post them. I work out of my head
This works for trash cans, 55 gallon drums or even concrete bridge pier forms (sonotubes). Join a garden group when you get there. they may have work days where people get together to build things.

click on the link below to open citrus related pictures. Click on any picture in the first two rows. Those are of my tree and I carefully placed them to links to citrus problem solving discussions and I got most any problem that anyone could ever have linked to solutions for such

Good luck to you

Here is a link that might be useful: https://www.google.com/search?q=meiwa+kumquat+tree+from+seed&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Rhc9Ufv1JY6v0AGz-4GIBQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=947#hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=happy+meiwa+kumquat+tree+from+seed&oq=happy+meiwa+kumquat+tree+from+seed&gs_l=img.12...58632.58632.0.60847.1.1.0.0.0.0.60.60.1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.7.img.Jy1Hwp-9i_4&fp=1&biw=1920&bih=947&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&cad=b&sei=ci5_UYf6C7PG4AOX8YHYCA&imgrc=aM2o7gZO2eEejM%3A%3Bu4hEEurQ90XjDM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fforums.gardenweb.com%252Fforums%252Fcitrus%252Fmsg020151287384.0110243212909.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fforums.gardenweb.com%252Fforums%252Fload%252Fcitrus%252Fmsg020151287384.html%3B640%3B480

Hi, first post on Gardenweb...

TL;DR summary: You can absolutely grow outdoor in ground citrus in southern NJ, or almost any other part of the USA, even upstate MI. It just depends on how much effort you want to invest.

Here's my full 2 cents:

Citrus are quite content being dormant for several months of the year. They can tolerate prolonged periods (several days) at or slightly below freezing and short periods of a few hours (depending on the variety) down into the teens without much damage except for possible defoliation. The key is that the tree is healthy and fully dormant, active growing trees are much more sensitive to cold.

One alternate approach to outdoor growing (as detailed by Poncirusguy) is to bring containerized citrus indoors for winter. Doing this you can either keep them growing actively (not dormant) by supplying sufficient heat and warmth. Or if you have a cool spot inside (temps in the 50's, for example) that receives filtered (not direct) sun you can overwinter them indoors in their dormant state.

For outdoor growing, you also need to consider the fruit. In general the fruit will be damaged by temps below ~28F for more than a few hours. So you can either make sure to protect the trees so temps do not get that low or select varieties, such as early Satsumas, that are able to ripen their fruit before cold weather sets in.

Depending on the degree of protection, you could grow pretty much any variety of citrus in ground. Alternatively, in zone 7B you should be able to grow some of the more hardy Poncirus hybrids in ground with minimal or possibly no winter protection. But, depending on your personal taste preferences, you may (or may not) like the fruit you get from the Poncirus hybrids.

I know someone who has been growing Satsumas, Kumquats, Meyer Lemons, and some other Poncirus hybrids in ground in zone 5B for several years. Some of his trees are 6+ ft tall and many produce fruit. He uses extensive winter protection and supplemental winter heating. I have seen one of his Kumquats with well over 50 ripening fruit that he overwintered!

Personally, I have one Satsuma in ground in my yard (zone 6B Massachusetts) and have overwintered it without using any supplemental heat. Instead I used several water barrels (taking advantage of the large heat capacity of water) to protect my tree.

My tree saw a low temp of ~28F this past winter (the outside low temp was ~4F). During one stretch, the outside air temp did not get above freezing for 8-9 continuous days.

Here are some pictures that might be helpful.

Satsuma last Fall:
{{gwi:582646}}

Bundled up for winter (Early November). The tree is surrounded by 6-7 filled 35 gal water barrels wrapped in plastic sheeting to keep the wind out and is topped with an old full glass patio door for a roof. There are many different setups for protection that would also work... you just need to experiment a little and find what works best for your specific area.
{{gwi:582647}}

After 25" of snow in late Janurary:
{{gwi:582648}}

Uncovered this spring:
{{gwi:582649}}

...and putting on new growth:
{{gwi:582650}}

Whether you choose outdoor (in ground), indoor active, or indoor dormant overwintering is really your personal preference. All methods will likely require some level of trial and error to determine what works best for you.

Personally, I have found that maintaining my outdoor tree during the winter was much less work than my indoor trees. Once I set-up the enclosure, I just left the outdoor tree on it's own all winter. (In full disclosure, I did keep an eye on the interior air and soil temps with some remote temp probes and had an emergency heat source that was set to turn on automatically if the interior temp went below 27F) In contrast, my indoor citrus require frequent checks to see if they need water and I typically need to spray them with Horticultural oil a couple times during the winter to keep the insects (scale, white flies, mealy bugs, red citrus mites, etc...) in check.

Cheers,
Scott

I want to point out that we have had only 2 days of citrus growing weather that would be considered in the low range of good. We will get another week of so-so temps and my trees are struggling. Growing up north is nothing less than very challenging

We are getting true citrus growing weather here in Cincinnasti, Ohio. Its on the low end of the scale., but it is here. Count the days in which the temperatures are above 80 for most of the lit ,up day. I am paying much more attention as a result of this thread. It has been a learning experience Thanks Steve:

kawaiineko_gardener

Have you moved and do you have a tree chosen yet. Reconsider doing citrus in containers. you can do quit well in harvest and grow what you want to. To see what kind of harvest the potted gurus get check out the link below. Some people were getting more than a hundred fruits from several trees.

Steve

Here is a link that might be useful: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/citrus/msg081305578468.html