Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
meyermike_1micha

Encouraging pictures for container growers in cold climates!

meyermike_1micha
14 years ago

Look at these....Pictures of, yes, Meyer Lemons, navel oranges, and even Eureka citrus after a few months of being stored in an average temperature of 35-45 degrees at my local nursery.

Can you beleive the NEW growth, all that healthy flush growth, after being bare naked and freezing for the whole winter. What does that tell us?

You learn something new every day.

Pictures speak a thousands words don't they?

There is hope for us cold prisoners!!

So don't be too quick to throw your trees away if they should loose all their leaves and turn naked. Just water alot less often.They only watered a little once everyother week.

Do you see all the new growth? They even cut them short to boot!

{{gwi:583285}}

{{gwi:583287}}

{{gwi:583288}}

{{gwi:583289}}

{{gwi:583290}}

{{gwi:583292}}

{{gwi:583293}}

Comments (16)

  • ceecee-va
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    These look great. Would you happen to know what soil mixture and fertilizer Hines use? ceecee-va

  • kylew
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am very interested.
    You say "bare naked" but also say they are watered. You do not mean they were bare rooted correct?
    Also, how was the temp kept so stable? Please tell me more about the storage envoronment.

    Kyle

  • chuck_in_montreal
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    These are beautiful. Can you provide more detail on how they were kept? Greenhouse or 3 season solarium? Fertilizer? Potting mix? etc etc. Very interested since I am in North East Canada.

  • meyermike_1micha
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I should be there at that nursery tommorrow for some plants, and I will speak to the owner....I will get all the details...:-)

  • frmmi
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Any ideas? My big lemon tree is lookin bad. Spider mite damage and now some weird spots.

  • meyermike_1micha
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thes leaves were constantly plucked and in a room barley heated..They ahd vents open and kept the room very cool, while the mix was kept on the drier side..

    When the sun started to get higher in the sky, they just kept wanting to puch new growth....I guess citrus can be tough plants!

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Very nice pictures, Mike. I'm glad that I got to see this post.
    While I don't live too far north - (39°02′19″N) - I do live in a foothill environment that receives snow
    and drops below 20°F for a few nights every winter. Since I plan on keeping my Blood Orange protected outside,
    it's good to know that the loss of leaves doesn't necessarily spell the end of things.


    Josh

  • meyermike_1micha
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey Josh/...

    The loss of leaves has never hurt my trees, as long as they are not over watered or under watered..If it is just from a change, it can rebound..

    As for the trees above, they were purposely defoliated...That is what shocked me..I went there to visit, and I saw the owner purposely taking every leaf off as the.............................YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Oasdana stupid mouse just ran up my foot here at work!!!!!!!!!!
    Anyway..They were stipping the leaves off as they were growing in...They kept them , the branches, bare all winter..I visited there all that winter to see how they would fare, and these pics are the results after all winter..Looking mighty healthy to me..Look at the new growth!..

    Talk to you later..

    Mike

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One point that I'd like to make is that complete defoliation of a plant is not good for the plant. The leaves are THE energy factories for the plants, providing resources to fight insect and disease infestations, for new top growth, for root growth, for flower and fruit formation. Without the photosynthate (energy) transport from the leaves to the root system (via the phloem), new roots can't be formed. Water and dissolved minerals are only absorbed by the tiniest of the new roots, the root hairs, and they only live for a matter of a few days. Unless they can be constantly replaced, the plant stalls and suffers.

    Where do those plants get the energy to keep growing new leaves? From STORED stored resources in the root system. They will keep on doing so until they (the plants) either give up, or until the leaves are allowed to remain so that they can do their job.

    Yes, trees are able to withstand an occasional defoliation, it happens all the time with all kinds of trees. But it happens at great sacrifice to the tree, even (and maybe especially) those that are very young.

    Luckily for the young citrus in that there is still a lot of green along the stems. Wherever there is green tissue, photosynthesis can occur...though at greatly reduced levels.

    So, your nursery's habit of removing all of the leaves so that pests don't take over is NOT A GOOD IDEA! Even when stored at such cool temperatures. Multiple defoliations can result in severe decline of the trees...which by then may be in the hands of customers.

    So your nursery's reasons for these repeated defoliations are a mystery to me, but I'd really really like to discourage the practice at home. In ground citrus keep their leaves in times of very cold temperatures.

    So, these pictures can give hope to those who's citrus are occasionally blasted by cold or other factors which induce them to shed all of their leaves....but let's not do it on purpose! ;-)

  • meyermike_1micha
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Rhizzo..

    Exactly! That is why I never suggested that anyone should do this practice..It was just facts that I stated that happened and that I saw myself. It is another option that one can try if one is desperate or brave enough to alliviate pest issues and provide more room.
    Before I posted this back then, I was contantly visiting this greenhouse and making sure they did ok..And as the pictures prove, it worked..I tried this on one of my pondersosa lemon trees, and it came back with no problems after 3 months of plucking last winter. I also had a lemon myer that defoliate on it's own for the whole winter, and came back strong once the days staring getting longer in my cool room..... Purposely defoliating trees is not something I suggest to do, just what I saw with my own eyes..
    I posted this to show that these trees can be quite resilient if one happens to do so, or just very lucky..

    You know the tree that completely defoliated I posted on thread that I forgot to water? It is coming back with growth in places I never saw, very close to the trunk, looking like it is going to fill in nice a bushy, something I could not get this plant to do just trimming the ends off..
    Quite interesting..Could it be that not all things quite live up to what is written in the books? Who knows..Those plants and the ones at the nursery proved otherwise..

    I also stated so that no ones gets me wrong...

    "This is something that probably most people would only be able to do if they provide the right conditions for their trees, and keep them on the dry side.... If you have a greenhouse on your side and this older thread can be very encouraging for you:"

    I personally make it a habit to trim mine up in the growing season because of reason you described and so had Al..

    I definatly side with you also with not trying this practice with in home ones..Just my feelings and that of many experienced people suggesting not to like you..If I had a greehouse where my trees flourish, I would try it for an experiment at least..Just me..

    I also stated that, it is recommended that one holds off till spring to cut back their plants, but I do not wait if it is needed, and still never have a problem..

    Ever since I saw the local nursery continually pluck EVERY leaf off all their citrus, all winter to avoid pest's, just to see them keep pushing growth, made me think..

    "I usually prefer to trim in the growing season as suggested, usually about June, but if I have too, I do anyway with no worries..If I do not have too, I will pluck the TIPS off to to keep it bushy if new growth occurs and suggested by a very good friend who knows pruning very well.. "

    While what you say is absoulutely correct, no denying that, I question too why their trees come back stronger than ever after an all winter defoliation?

    If anyone thinks I am encouraging or suggesting plucking all your leaves off, I am not, and I thank Rhizzo for clarifying that and the possible consequences..
    Rhizzo is much more experienced at growing healthy trees and full of great advice, and if she suggests not too, then I would take her words strongly seriously
    It is just an option one can choose to decide for them selves based on the pictures and what I saw..


    Mike
    :-))))

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Woody plants are very happy to grow more leaves in the event of a defoliation, whether it be due to a natural event or a human engineered one! ;-) And they don't suffer too much from it if these 'events' occur very infrequently. However, repeated plucking of the leaves is really rough on them, as described in my earlier posting.

    Remember, too, that evergreen plants aren't designed to lose all of their foliage at one fell swoop. It's rough on their energy system when it happens. Replacing foliage takes an enormous amount of carbon resources, energy that the plant can't use for anything else (like storage, root growth, etc., etc.) Unlike many other life forms, plants aren't made to do many things at one time, but are forced to direct those essential metabolites to the location where most needed.

    Those pictures look like the trees are madly trying to replace lost foliage, and are doing so at a rate that will result in a lot more leaves than they originally had in the first place. That's the result of the plant desperately trying to replace the energy factories. But the plant won't be able to support (physiologically) all of that foliage causing yet more stress on a depleted plant.

    I know you weren't recommending this, Mike! But I thought I'd jump in and make a point or two. ;-)

  • meyermike_1micha
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Rhizzo..

    Your offerings and information for years here, since the start of these forums, have always been on the mark with many..I think if one took the time to read your profile, then they would begin to grasp why I continue to take in and value any offerings you contribute here, and can be confident that what you suggest is always for the better of everyone's growing experience and mine..

    Those reminders are perfect and thank you for pointing out things in a way I could not..I hope many with our postings can learn and make informed decisions on how they treat their trees..
    THANK YOU:-))))

    Mike

  • bonechickchris
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow! And how odd! I never heard of such a thing before.

    Actually, not on purpose but one of my Meyer Lemon trees used to look exactly like these.

    My friend had shipped me the most beautiful Meyer Lemon tree. She has a friend in CA who owns a nursery, and since I am in the NorthEast Coast with cold weather, ( like Mike)
    I do not have any local places to find citrus. I wanted a nice bushy tree, and one that was already pretty large. Plus, the cost out there is a lot cheaper for citrus than having to order from a company.
    And the best part, my friend could do the picking! So she of course, picked me out the nicest, bushy-est, fattest Meyer Lemon (Improved).

    So while this was so great to have someone be able to pick and choose a tree just to my liking, it did suffer shipping issues. Since it weighed a lot, she had to ship it UPS which would of been fine, if it came on time like it was suppose to. But UPS had to rescheduled the recieve date, which left it coming instead of a Friday to me, all the way to the next Monday! So this poor tree was in the box over a week.

    So I got the tree and it seemed fine when I first took it out. But within a week or so, EVERY leaf and lemon fell off the tree. It obviously suffered too much stress being in the box longer than it was suppose to.

    Anyway, the whole point of this story is that the tree was bare naked inside my house from November all the way to April when it got to go outside. SO I guess it did go into some sort of dormant stage? I had no idea citrus could do such a thing, but I guess since it was winter and inside my house with not as much light as outside, it decided to wait until it was ready to grow again!~

    I had it outside for 3 days, and BAM leaves started to grow! It looked like these pictures! I could not believe how quickly it shot up leaves. I also gave it Monrovia Fruit and Citrus Oraganic fertilizer. That stuff worked insanely!

    So it has been a year since I got the tree. It is full of leaves now and has a couple lemons on it. I just brought all my citrus inside for the winter. I am going to keep my fingers crossed that all citrus will fair well this year inside!

    But I was very suprised that a lemon tree could stay dormant so long, when it I never even knew one could go dormant to begin with. It was a good 6 months in my house the tree had no leaves on it until it got outside and grew leaves only 3 days after being outside! But it made it! And what happened seemed to have no permanent affects on it. It is back to being full of leaves and some lemons are on it already!

    Christy

  • Stan
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Christy - Thanks for the story. The EXACT same thing happened to a variegated lemon that I just brought back from California. I hate to wait until April, but it was in good shape before it defoliated and so I'll just water it very sparingly and be patient.

    Tanksalot
    Stan F

  • meyermike_1micha
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Very nice stories...

    Look how resilient these trees are! They can either be kept actively growing for one's pleasure all winter, slowed down to the point where they will not grow much new growth at all, made to bloom with extremely cold conditions, or drop all their leaves and just rest...

    I like to let them just rest, with their leaves in tact...

    What I do is deliberatley provide cold temps all winter, and try not let the plant room go above the 60's by day which keeps their buds and flowers in the fullest possible display of beauty all the while avoiding bugs and leaf drop..

    I think I will start a thread and ask everyone how they treat their plants for the winter..

    As you can tell from this thread, some go as far as to deliberately defoliate their trees..

    Thank you

    Mike

  • trianglejohn
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I know there is a physiological relationship between leaves and blooming - like when your non-tropical fruit tree sets buds in the summer for next spring and then goes through a severe drought which causes a lot of leaves to fall off - the lack of leaf will cause the flowers to open as if it is spring already, once new leaves emerge and get to a certain size it corrects the signal and the blooming stops. So maybe defoliating the tree will affect the trees blooming cycle. This could be useful with a hard to bloom tree.

    I know that my citrus and guavas used to suffer when they were smaller and I kept them indoors during the winter. Once they got too big to lift I started building flimsy hoop house structures out of pvc pipe and plastic sheeting and leaving them outdoors with a small electric heater (with a thermostat set on 32 degrees). There have been plenty of nights when the hoophouse got down to 26 degrees but for the most part our winters are not that cold (I'm in Raleigh NC). Maybe its the larger size of the trees but they bloom a lot better now than they did before.

    There have been years when I would do anything to get ahead of the pest problems during the winter - now I have an option to spraying.