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patty718_gw

Orange tree??

patty718
9 years ago

I'm going to post a little background on my yard. :)
When I plant anything in my yard it takes a really long time for any plant to take a good root and start growing with out me worrying about if it's going to make it. I planted an Oak tree that didn't start growing really good until about a year and a half after I planted it. (Now it's growing great!) I planted two avocado trees. One was bought as a three foot high tree, the other I grew from a seed, it was about 3 foot when I planted it in the ground. (neither one made it) I've also planted one lemon tree, one Valencia orange tree, and one Navel orange tree. The Valencia and Lemon tree seem to be struggling even after being in the ground for a little over a year. :-(

Now to my question.
The Navel tree seemed like it died about 3-4 months ago. One branch on a main small trunk that looked like it was dead. I just left it hoping for something to happen to it, lol. (And something did happen, lol)
Now it it bushy with a lot of branches about a foot and a half tall, all of the branches and even the trunk are green and it has a lot of leaves, but now it has huge thorns on it. When I got the tree it was about 3 foot high with no thorns on it. I can't exactly remember what the guy said on how it was grown. But I do remember him saying the tree was about three years old. They just keep cutting it back until it sells. Which I sort of believed him, cause when I bought it from him it had a full grown Navel orange on it. Ripe and ready to pick. It was good tasting too. I've read the forums here and other places on the internet, and have found that it could be a Sour Orange tree.
I guess my question is how could a Navel tree morph into a Sour Orange tree?
(Unless it's still a Navel tree and now has thorns?)

Comments (11)

  • hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
    9 years ago

    Trees don't "morph", Patty. What you're probably seeing is that the grafted scion (the cultivar - Navel Orange) has actually died, and the rootstock it was grafted to has taken over. You'll know because the growth will be below that graft line, and the leaves will look different. Nothing is grafted to Sour Orange rootstock anymore, due to susceptibility to a variety of diseases. It would more likely be some trifoliate rootstock, and that's easy to identify because the leaves will be in three's (hence the term, trifoliate). So, look at the branches and see where they are emanating from. Thorns sometimes can be an indication of rootstock growth, BUT they can also be an indication of rapid new scion growth, too (it's a protective mechanism citrus have, to prevent animals from eating the tender new growth). Can't tell by your photo, so you'll have to check yourself to see where this growth is coming from - above or below the graft line.

    Patty S.

  • johnmerr
    9 years ago

    Given that rather large leaf petiole and leaf shape, it could well be Cuban Shaddock rootstock, which is not trifoliate.

  • hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
    9 years ago

    Could be, especially if the tree was purchased from Four Winds Growers, who is one of the only growers that uses this rootstock in the USA. Certainly is not an orange leaf, which has no or nearly no winged petioles. This leaf has a distinct large winged petiole. Good eye, John.

    Patty S.

  • johnmerr
    9 years ago

    Florida is one of the States where Four Winds cannot or does not ship trees; but there are a few Florida growers who also use Cuban Shaddock.

  • patty718
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the info guys, and when I said morph I was sort of talking about the graph. I'm not sure what they use when they do that. I know it won't just become another tree for no reason, lol :-)
    But I will look to see where the new leaves start, but if memory serves correctly the new branches start out at ground level.
    Which brings me to another question. Should I just pull it out and start over with another, or leave it. I'm not too informed on graphing and "why" they do it.
    But I'm going to look it up right now.
    I use to be pretty good at growing things until we moved here. I struggle to get anything to grow here the western part of west palm beach. :-(

  • hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
    9 years ago

    Patty, if the rootstock has taken over, which we're not completely sure, since we can't see by your photo to see where the graft line is, then you no longer have an orange tree. You have rootstock. Growers graft the cultivar scion to the rootstock to provide the cultivar additional properties that being grown on their own roots may not provide the tree: Better soil and water condition tolerances, better disease resistance, better growth habits (dwarfing), etc. If you can affirm you've just got rootstock growing, then the tree you thought you had is gone. Pull it out, and plant what cultivar you want.

    Patty S.

  • johnmerr
    9 years ago

    Watch out, Patty S., someone is going to jump on you for always wanting to kill the tree. At least you didn't say it was about money.
    LOL
    John

  • hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
    9 years ago

    Now, John :-) Most of these forum members have a MUCH different perspective on citrus trees than you do. Yes, it should be about money to a significant degree - no sense in throwing good money after bad, as the saying goes. It doesn't make sense saving a tree if the cost is going to way exceed replacement costs, unless there is a specific reason to spend maybe a little more money saving it - such as a tree on an heirloom rootstock (and thread in this forum). For Patty here, not the case. This tree needs to be shovel-pruned and a desired cultivar planted in its place. Unless Patty wants to practice top-working, and grafting in clean budwood. A worthy hobby but perhaps beyond what Patty wants to do. You always have to weigh the cost of saving vs. the cost of replacing, with special factors weighed in. This one is a no-brainer - replace the tree.

    Patty S.

  • tcamp30144(7B N.ATLANTA)
    9 years ago

    I heard that johnmerr lmao
    Trace

  • patty718
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    You guys are too funny! lol
    Still not sure what I want to do with it. I like trees whether they are fruit trees or not, especially here in the yard I have now which is mainly cypress and pine trees. I did look on the internet for graphing trees, looks pretty easy, as long as I follow the guild lines on doing it.
    Thank you all for the info!
    :-)

  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    9 years ago

    Grafting (not graphing) is an art form. While not really 'difficult' once you've learned it, you do have to have the right tools and materials, and an awareness of when to collect the scion wood, and what scion varieties work best on what rootstocks, etc. etc.

    And once you get a grafted scion to 'take' it will still take years for the scion to grow out and bloom and bear.

    So, if you have the time, patience and really want to learn about all this -- go for it!

    Otherwise, yank the tree and start over with something that you really, really love.

    Your shaddock (or whatever it is) will probably have nasty thorns for many years.