Let me try the pics again

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Sorry couldn't get them embedded.

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy20/theforce19/Photo205.jpg

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Hummm? Let me think on this tonight so no one else has yet:-)

Mike

Let me ask you.

Have you check the roots yet?
It looks like a classic root rot issue but then it could be anything else by your cultural standards.

Do you give your tree full sun? How often do you water? How do you know when to?

Let me go back and re-read your post and hopefully by the time I have something to say tomorrow, someone will come by and help. There are plenty of good people here and very knowledgable. Just be patient;-) They will come.

Mike

Hey Mike.

I bare-rooted the tree again as a last resort and the roots were soaked! I thought this couldn't happen in the 5-1-1 mix.
Yes I give it full sun, I left out on the deck(I did accumulate it to the sun)I have a long dowel in there and once the bottom of dowel is dry, I water.

Hey Tasty

That is weird. The 5.1.1 mix never holds water like that, at least not mine.
You could use a wick and have it dangling out the bottom of the pot to trick the PW into thinking it has to drain ever further.

I never leave the dowel stick inside the pot although some may. I just shove it in there when testing, deep to teh bottom, and pull it right out.

I was wondering. Have you ever let the mix dry out to long to the point where the leaves wilted or even fell off? Maybe just once? I never wait until the dowel gets bone dry. By then it is usually to late since citrus like evenly moist, not bone dry.

How long have you been using the dowel method?

A little at a time. We will get to the bottom of this so you won't have to go through it again:-)

Mike

Hmmm, I just can't tell from the pics.

Is this in one of those tall black plastic pots that barely has any taper at all?
I have a friend who's having some water retention issues in these containers versus
more tapered plastic containers.

I use uncomposted bark in my 5-1-1, so it's really much more open than the original recipe.

Josh

I'm using a slightly composted bark from Home Depot, and it doesn't hold that much water either.

tasty~ How did you make your 5-1-1.? What materials and how much?

Maybe it has too much very fine to dust in it?

Hi guys! :-)
JoJo

Tasty, although I was not able to respond to your post on the other citrus forum, I read all the information about your clementine tree that you posted on the other forum. I don't believe the problem had anything to do with the 5-1-1 mix. I think your tree died from two problems. The first problem was the length of time the tree was left in the compacted potting soil that the nursery originally had it in when you purchased the tree. According to your information the tree was declining and therefore you decided to transplant the tree into the 5-1-1 mix. Bare rooting the tree by removing all of the compressed nursery mix I would bet that the root structure was damaged, causing the final condition.

Hello Jojo and Josh!

Good points Silica.

Have a nice night everyone and happy growing.
Hope fully you were able to take a way some good thoughts brought out by everyone here Tasty. We are here for you:-)

Mike

Hi everyone

For the bark I used reptibark since you can't get anything else here that small that I needed here in Canada.

The weird thing is that, I had it in the original soil for a year but the problem only started a week ago. I was thinking spider mites since I found it on my other plants and citrus. Also I don't think I hurt the root structure or the root ball. The roots were looking fine and also when I said bare-rooting it was a mistake I didn't completely bare-root it. I noticed I left the soil around the root ball intact and I just removed the soil around it.

But we will see what happens and have Hope!

Tasty, as per my other post on the other site I think it's too far gone.

Did you use Garden Lime? How long did the re-pot process take, where the tree was out of the container? Did you mist the roots during the process? Did you layer the soil around the roots vertically, or put the rootball in the container and pack soil downward into the container?

One year shouldn't be too long for a severely compacted soil, assuming you bought it "fresh" from a reputable nursery a year ago. I.e. the tree hadn't sat in the nursery for a year or two before you got it.

However, that doesn't mean that over-watering issues didn't slowly creep up OR that somehow even one day of leaving the container exposed to cold temps --- then re-potting and bringing it outside to the heat brought about the loss of foliage. Cold damage to the rootball (root loss) during winter won't show up until the tree is introduced to outside dry hot direct sun temps.

I'm about to lose a citrus that was in a very bad mix for 3 years. The tree struggled in the poor mix but never looked like near death. But I KNEW it was getting worse and changing it out was inevitable. It's almost gone now, having transplanted to the 511 mix a month ago. After transplant it immediately started dropping leaves and it continued despite my care. It would be easy for me to think it was the 511, but it was inevitable. The original mix was so compacted I lost too many roots during the re-pot process.

Funny thing you said that! SPIDERMITES! It was something I missed until today since I was looking closely at your other plants now that I had access to your pictures this am.

You have them all grouped together do you?

Bannana trees are notorious for attracting mites and it looks like it has them. The other trees behind that one with the dead branches also show signs of mites.

Now, if you have mites also, obviously your trees are not going to take up what moisture you have in your container which leads full circle to several issues going on at once and weakened trees which leads to more pest issues. It is a constant cycle of death.

I don't think there is only one thing killing your trees but several, and I would start with making sure your plants are free of all bugs, out in good sunlight, and in a good potting mix all at once.

I suppose there would be stark improvement and then from there you can move forward.

I wish you all the luck so this doesn't happen to the few rermaining once you have left behind, but is does to be affecting your others, at least the leaves that is, which you severly need in good working order to keep your trees alive.

I can tell you that the 5.1.1. mix if made correctly will only help alleviate your problems.

Mike:-)

Well the weird thing is the top of the graft(clementine mandarin maybe dying but the bottom rootstock that looks like some type of rough lemons looks to be growing, which should mean that the roots are good.

Cebury

I did use garden lime one tbsp per gallon. It took around twenty minutes. I had it in a bucket under the shade. I didn't bare root it from the start so it was still in the soil so I didn't think there was a need to spray. I kind of layered the soil but I tried not to have any air pockets.

I think mandarins are way too picky even my navel orange isn't this picky. I think my next citrus will be either a ponderosa lemon, bearss lime, a kumquat or finally a calamondin.

Also one last thing if the rootstock survives what should I do with it?? Should I let it grow out, I won't mind having a rough lemon or whatever this is?? Or should take a branch from my navel and graft it on the rootstock?

Hi Tasty,

Glad at least the rootstock is surviving. I'd let it grow, since you already have it in soil and are getting more citrus anyway. And yeah, it'd be a great experience to graft on it. Even getting mandarin to restore by graft the original scion once it gets healthy and strong.

I'm not so sure if mandarin are more picky. I've bare-rooted lots of oranges and mandarins, they've been about the same for me. But they often are set back at least half a growing season... they don't sulk or wilt, they handle it pretty well for me. But they certainly don't experience a strong flush again for me for quite a while, sometimes the next season. After that, in the gritty mix they do excellent and thrive very well if you use enough fertilizer. I cannot vouch for the gritty mix as a long-term solution for a tree with lots of fruit, though.

I just planted a few seeds from a store bought clementine, I am new to gardening and this website. I was wondering if anyone might have some friendly beginners advice, I planted 4 seeds in a can (incase others don't sprout I have a backup) they are in clean rich soil and watered. I was also curious to when I may see them sprout and when I should plant them somewhere else.

CoCo, why don't you start your own message thread, instead of tacking onto this old one. Seeds needs warmth and as much sunlight as possible. And, WELL draining soil or they'll just rot. A can is probably not the best choice, unless you've punched holes in the bottom. Seed starting soil is better than "clean rich soil", which I'm not sure what that might be?? So, heating mat, and perhaps a plastic pot with seed starting medium in the light.

Patty S.

Best soil for a clementine tree plz :)?

A very porous one...

Gratitude mikerno :)