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Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Posted by Lesleybird 8B or 9 Houston (My Page) on
Fri, Jun 24, 05 at 4:45

Hi, What is the best way to stop citrus leaf miners that are attacking the new growth on my grapefruit tree? I was so happy that this newly planted tree was sprouting new leaves on every branch.....and now I went out there tonight and saw this squiggles on the back of the leaves and leaves rolling at the edges. I checked on Google.com immages and it is exactly what I have. What do I do to stop them before they get all the new leaves? I did spray the new growth with a hand held bottled pyrethrin spray, but what if anything else would work? Dam things live inside the leaves but cannot use systemic on an edible fruit tree. Anyone have the answer? Millet? You seem to have answers to all issues with citrus. What is your thought on this? Anyone have a successful treatment? Thanks, Lesley


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Hi Lesley!

It seems that everybody gets them eventually. Some people treat their leaves with hort oil. Apparently, the oil makes the leaf less appealing to the insect to lay eggs on.

It has been said on the forum here a few times that this problem is cosmetic. I have chosen the path of ignoring them. The leaves still "work", just disfigured. If you catch them soon enough, you can squish the little sucker with your fingernail. After munching away for a day or two, they pull a small section of the egde of the leaf around themselves, and then they pupate into the winged moth.
Look for the dead end of the trail near the edge of the leaf. Squish em'! One less to reproduce and cause more grief later.

I have more of a problem with sundogs, these are the catipillars of the Swallowtail butterfly. These suckers flat out chomp the leaves down to tattered nubs. Not good.

Anyway hope you and your new trees have a great summer! Peace......... Scott


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Here is some of the best advice concerning citrus leaf miners. It is not my advice, it is the advice of Dr. Malcolm Maners....."Official" advice, which I do believe, since we have followed it on our FSC campus for years with great results, is to do nothing at all. They won't do a lot of damage, and as the season progresses, the natural biological controls will build up and kill the leafminers. You should experience no significant reduction in tree growth or fruit production because of them. So controlling them is really needed only if a beautiful tree (i.e., beautiful, unblemished leaves) is your goal. If that's the case, you could use something containing imidaclopryd, after the bloom is completely finished. But I'd recommend doing nothing at all. Lesley, as Dr. Manners says, if you wanted a clean beautiful leaf "patio tree" you would have had to spray right after bloom and before the leaf miners attached the new growth. You might consider spraying just as soon as the second (or third) flush of grow to protect those leaves, if you think it is worth while. Millet


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Here in England citrus leaf miners do not survive outdoors, but plants introduced from warmer countries in Europe can carry the miners into greenhouse citrus collections.
This happened to me a few years ago, and I had to use a commercial product containing AVERMECTIN/ ABAMECTIN/ IVERMECTIN. This totally eliminated the miners after two sprays.
You will have to check (Google) whether a suitable product is available to you in your country. And decide whether it is worth doing when your citrus plants will inevitably be re-infected.

Here is a link that might be useful: Citrus Leaf Miner control


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Leslie -

I had the same problem and someone on this forum recommended
`Fertimore for BagWorms and Leaf Miners` I bought a bottle ($15.00) and it kept the new infestations at bay. it`s possible that something else was at work also - the weather or friendly insects, etc. The active ingredients are Spinosyds A & D. I felt like it worked. But, I also had some advice similar to Dr. Manners that `miners would not hurt my tree in the long run, fruit production, etc. I was mainly worried about the seedlings which only had a few leaves for photosynsethis, or whatever.

Good Luck

Bill


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Billy1had, Got that stuff you mentioned today. Saw this on the web also and it was suggested that this is the only treatment that works for citrus leaf miners. I'll try to let you all know how it works. Lesley


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

The leafminers have attacked my new trees so aggressively that I'm wondering if they'll survive. They've given me few problems elsewhere in the garden. They cut a little path inside a bean leaf here, a tomato leaf there. But with the citrus they have attacked every single leaf, and they do more than cut the ordinary meandering path. They basically bore out the nearly the entire inside of the leaf so that nothing's left but a thin film on either side. Right now I think the citrus must be living on the older leaves they came with--which I guess were sprayed, because they still look pretty good. But it's difficult for me to find a single new leaf that isn't nearly completely bored out.

I was hoping to grow citrus with no spraying, and I would like to do nothing. But I am worried . . .


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I just read the link Citrange gives. I wonder if this pesticide is available here in the U.S.--and if I should use it. Or maybe I should check out the stuff Bill lists. I would like to wait on the beneficials but again my trees have a severe infestation. Citrange's link also suggests that the citrus leaf miner (I didn't realize until just now that it was different from other leafminers in the garden) is a potentially serious pest in FL, which worries me more still.


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

I also have problems with CLM on the new citrus trees I've planted, these trees have suffered in the heat and dry weather and now that some are finally putting on some new growth they are infested with the miners. I have been finding and crushing the little bastards with my fingers but I'm sure they'll out do me, if any one has any success with chemical control I am very interested to find out what worked. I'll share any success I may find elsewhere.


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Millet
The do nothing advise is the same that I am getting from Louisiana State University, and the Fertilome product I was told would have to be sprayed every 10 days to do any good.
I have three trees that are three years old and were attacked severely last year by the citrus leaf miner. I am doing everything that I can for the trees that were planted this year ,because I believe that this kind of attack must surely stunt the young trees. Older trees I believe are ok, since the leaf miner does prefer new vegetation. I know these guys know what they are talking about ,but its near impossible for to take no action.
Ironically, I have a Ponkan that has not been attacked by the CLM, but the Owari and Hamlins seem to be CLM magnets.
Karl


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Karpes u are right the do nothing advise is painful and they do seem to effect the tree .I to have this problem and I almost killed my Satsuma with the vock oil .I m almost ready to get rid of my citrus trees its that bad some of the leafs arn't even opened when the leaf miner start and then it gets nasty brown spots .I have losted all my fruit and I am ganna try some stronger stuff.I cant belive no one with young plant (with fewer than 4 leafs )wouldnt be killed they are so fast to mine the entirer leaf.I never had this pest and think that they need to be stoped before they become a major problem.I have nothing to loss at this point I have 3 ,2 year old and some seedlings.Im ganna get rid of these pest one way or another I dont like them at all .


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

angie83
I have been using Sun Spray ultra fine oil on only the new vegetation. I mix it in a 32 ounce spray bottle and spot spray only the new sprouts. Maybe this is what it takes to keep them off of my trees, but time will tell. My immediate problem now is keeping the orange dogs at bay.


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Im sure ganna try it, dont it kill your sprouts.I will sure tell all not to use vock oil on orange trees it really took its toll on them.I mixed it even lighter than it called for and still hurt them oranges ,didnt do anything to lemons but didnt stop leaf miners either.Sure hope this works im never ganna be able to smush them all .


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Volck oil is fine to spray on citrus trees if you follow the directions for summer spraying, like 3 tablespoon per gallon. I always include dormant oil and Dawn dishwasher detergent in my sprays as it will kill most citrus pests except CLM. You don't need to spray every ten days either. I am spraying every month as the max applications of spinosad is 6 per year and getting very good control. I am spraying do to raising trees for sale. If not raising trees for sale I wouldn't bother with it. Most years CLM show up here around July 1. Well, I don't want my trees growing after July 1 anyway to insure winter dormancy for freezes.

Here is a link that might be useful: leaf miners


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Yeah, did you follow the directions? I had a pest problem (CLM, catplr, mealy bug) three years ago and sprayed fish oil on my citrus, full concentration! OK, I was new and I always read directions closely now, but I had about 50-75% leaf loss on my 4 citrus tress which were all 1-3 years old. They all came back fine with normal care. I use the oils still in the right amount in the evenings and have never had a problem since. Works great too.


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Knepper, I use 1 capful of Fish Emulsion per 16oz mister of water and spray thoroughly..It worked like a charm last year. No mites, etc. Thank God I don't have mealy problems cause I hate battling those suckers. But every so often a citrus tree living in the gh will acquire mites..after the appliation last autumn before bringing them inside, I didn't have any mite problems.

Did you spray the fish oil w/o water 3 yrs ago? Oh my goodness..fortunatly it was organic instead of a chemical fertilizer. You might have lost a lot more than you did..Toni


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Yep I followed the directions was very careful Im a chicken when it comes to chemicals.I have one Satsuma and it is so fussie it drops leafs if I use anything on it has been this way for a year maybe they all fussie not sure.Its putting out new growth and I know those pest (leafminers) will mess it up.I killed 4 moths yesterday not sure how many are around I never saw them till this year they really funny lookin bugs U can spot them easy.Maybe I need more spiders and lizards they would catch them easy.


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Toni - Yeah I sprayed it on full 3 years ago w/o water. The leaves get super shiny with the oil and I think it just conduct an extra amount of heat which kills the leaves but the citrus was 95% recovered the next season. The mealy's aren't bad, for some odd reason they only like my grapefruit tree. They dont get bad only 5-10 on a branch they I spray them w/ oil and no problems for months at least. I don't spray just for the leaf miners, the trees are big enough that I barely notice the leaves now but when I spray for anything else I can tell the miners go too.


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Oh Knepper, that must have been a disaster..I'm glad your citrus made it through though. We all learn the hard way, you know?
I'm curious if Leaf Miners are the same as Leaf Rollers..does anyone know? I was looking it up in one of my plant books and all I could find were leaf rollers..They say to use Pyrethums to rid these bugs. I've never tried it since I never had a LM problem, but if that time ever comes, and Fish Emulsion doesn't work, I'm going to try the Pyrethums. It's also used for other insects..actually I don't use insecticides..I make my own. The harshest stuff I use is Fish Emulsion. I do fertilize my plants though using citrus fertilizers and Miracle Gro. Gotta watch out cause I have birds and don't want to harm them..Toni


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Well guess the leafminers are safe now I found a bunch of cats on my citrus trees.Not sure what kind of butterfly they will be butI wont be able to use anything till the cats fly away.I have never seen any catepillars before on my citrus trees kinda excited about the little cuties.I must say they are the uglyest caterpillars I ever saw.


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Ugly Caterpillars? Are they Orange Dog (Swallowtail) caterpillars? (see http://www.bsbobird.org/camp-pioneer-pics.html) If so, I'd take care of them too. They can eat alot of young leaves and get out of hand. Some people (me) kill them with whatever works best (for me Fish emulsions) others pick them off and move them so they can live on another plant. I'd been advised to get rid of those as they can cause alot of damage not sure if anyone has other ideas on this one.


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Wow I cant kill them hehe .Well guess leafminers werent the worse it could get.They are orangedogs are they that bad .


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

mrtexas
Thanks mrtexas, I am going to try spraying once a month to see how that goes, Do you spray under the leaves and do you mix the Spinsosad with anything else. You mentioned the dawn soap but that was just with the dormant oil right?
Karl


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

I used ferti-lome for leaf miner and on the citrus I used it on no sigh of leafminers it is full of new growth this producted seem to be working.I cant use it on my other citrus they are full of caterpillars but when they all fly away ill get them too, keeping fingers crossed.Think this product will keep them from layin those nasty eggs on my new growth.


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i was informed by our local garden columnist that my tangergine tree had leaf miner and not citrus canker, after he viewed sample leaves I sent him. Some of the leaves had brown spots with a yellow halo. He said NOT to remove the tree. I'm not convinced its not canker, could there be any resemblance? I would like to try fish oil. Where can I purchase this? and I do not want to milk the fish,HaHa. Please advise Frank


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I've got a young Orange fresh from the nursery. I have a recently planted but even smaller grapefruit tree i've had for a year that seems ok, but the new orange is covered in mined leaves.

Well, hopefully i'm smart enough to outwit a bug. I think most of them I might have caught in time, because the edge isn't curled and the trail is small. The leaves look healthy save from the winding trails on the back and some have a glossy coating on the back too.

I've cut off all the 'infected leaves', and threw them in the grill, doused them with lighterfluid and built a fire ontop of them. Hopefully that'll keep some of them from hatching and laying more eggs!

I sprayed the rest of the foliage with pesticide (i'm trying Sevin, keeping my fingers crossed it'll kill adults either as emerging or trying to lay eggs). (i don't really expect fruit in a tree so young and in winter?, so i don't mind using the powerful stuff right now).

I hope the bugs don't like the cold. i just winterized the baby trees, but it's about to hit 32 tonight in Houston, maybe that'll kill em off!

(now if i can just keep those danged stinkbugs under control). I started out organic, but got overrun by stinkbugs, and have been dousing them with Sevin.

Catepillars? Shoot those guys are easy, spray liberally with BTK. (i got the liquid you mix with water, it's a bacteria that only kills catepillars when ingested but makes no distinguishing between beautiful but hungry swallowtails, or nasty gypsy moths or tomato horn worms)

If the Sevin doesn't work i might try IMMUNOX that i use on my roses. It's not normally recommended for food production, but it absorbs into the leaf and is good for 2 weeks even through rain, so long as it dries before it gets wet. Since i'm not expecting good fruit for some time anyway, i won't be pulling any punches.

one more thing, the scientists at disney are using with great success parasitoid wasps (small as gnats), that attack leaf miners. you may be able to order them on the web.


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

I noticed that the leaf miners are visible in the leaves. I am going to tediously use a needle to poke through each one to reduce their population and reproductive capacity. I have three dwarf cisturs in pots on my patio so it would be easier than for those in a yard or orchard to pierce each one I see. Should kill them when pierced and save the rest of the leaf


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

oops have dwarf citrus not dwarf cisturs


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

I have these leaf miners on my lemon, orange and grapefruit trees. I started using a concentrate "fruit tree spray" made by "BONIDE" two weeks ago at these critters seem to be controlled. I followed the directions but only used it half strength. I filled my spray bottle with water and added four drops of this spray and covered the new sprouts with it. It seems to be working!


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

NO Spray, apply at the base of the tree!! I applied Bayer advanced Fruit, Citris & Vegetable insect control before new leaves and have seen no problems on my new, heavy growth I have had miners every year but now, knock on wood, I have Orange, Grapefruit and Lemon.


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

If you intend to let your citrus trees grow with no fruit for the 1st 3 years then you can use imidicloprid by buying Bayer Tree and Shrub and use one ounce of BTAS for each inch of trunk diameter. This will keep your young leaves 100% free of leaf miner so that they can grow big and strong for the 1st 3 years. Picking the baby fruit off for the 1st 3 years in the ground is what is recommended by the Univ of Florida and the Old Testament. I have 100 citrus trees in Miami and every single leaf is perfect because of this chemical. This chemical is what commercial groves use too. As far as Orangedog caterpillars you must inspect each tree daily and pick off the eggs or the baby caterpillars from the eggs you previously missed or were hidden from view. Do these things and your leaves will be perfect too. The BTAS treatments last about 2 months and they aint cheap.


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

  • Posted by laa_laa Sunset /8 or 9 (My Page) on
    Mon, Sep 13, 10 at 16:28

We have just returned from the nursery to ask about the problem with our new growth on the citrus trees.....They identified it as citrus leaf miner....so as soon as we got home, I got on the computer and of course, found complete advice on "Garden Web". This garden site is really great!
I think I'll go outside when it cools off a bit more today and prune the new branches with the twisted leaves and trails....the garbage pick-up is tomorrow.....and at the city dump, I believe they burn the yard waste. I wouldn't want this to spread over the whole area.
I am wondering, though, would a good frost or two kill the leaf miners? They always say that we need a cold winter to wipe out all the pests and maintain a healthy balance.
It seems to have been pretty mild in the winters here for many years.....Lina


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Where can I find in Canada/USA products for the treatment of Citrus leaf miner? Any name of the company or website.


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

You'll want to look for Spinosad (Conserve, Naturalyte Insect Control, Green Light Spinosad, Success, Fertilome Borer, Bagworm, Leafminer & Tent Caterpillar Spray, etc.) and Volk Oil, Ali. This is the treatment we use in San Diego County in S. California for Citrus Leafminer. We have a pretty serious problem down here with CLM. Use equal parts of Spinosad and Volk Oil. The Volk Oil will make the Spinosad last longer. Start spraying in the Spring, when CLM begins to appear every 3 weeks through Spring (this ends up being about 3 applications). Spray in the evening, when the little moth comes out, and the sun won't cause the leaves to overheat which can cause some burning. And, if you have a particularly bad infestation start the spray cycle again in the Fall as the weather cools off and spray every 3 weeks until you're closing in on winter (again, about 3 applications). Maximum 6 applications a year. Both these products are safe, organic, work extremely well, and you won't have to sacrifice a crop from using something systemic (and poisonous). Plus, this method is friendly to beneficial insestcs. Imidacloprid is quite fatal to bees. You can try to refrain from applying imidacloprid during the bloom time, but I have 6 lemon trees, and they are in bloom all the time, plus I don't want to use a systemic pesticide and have to waste a crop of fruit for a problem that is on-going down here. Doesn't make sense for us in San Diego County. All of our citrus growers down here use this system, as well as the citrus nurseries with excellent results. You can find both products at your local gardening supply center, or online.

Patty S.

Here is a link that might be useful: Weidner's Gardens - Citrus Leafminer Control


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Hi, I am new to this forum and find it very informative. Thanks for all of the advise. Has anyone ever tried mothballs as a deterrent for the leaf miners? I was thinking about hanging some in a mesh bag at the time of new flush. Any thoughts or reason that I should not try that?


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Were you going to throw the mothballs at the leaf miners?


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

I have never heard this as a remedy for CLM, RubberDouggie. And, if you're really wanting to ask a question on the forum, you're much better off starting a new message thread. You have the ability to check off a box that will notify you of responses to your posted message that way, instead of tacking onto a REALLY old message thread :-) I would recommend talking with your local extension office or Master Gardener group. We have huge issues with CLM in N. San Diego county, Calif. We treat with Spinosid either systemically, if you're not harvesting fruit with 21 days, or via spray, and usually mixed with Volk Oil to get it to stay stuck a bit better. Just be sure not to spray when you're expecting high temps, and spray in the evening.

Patty S.

Here is a link that might be useful: UC IPM: CLM Management


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

anybody got a picture of these lil critters?


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Will spraying neem oil work on controlling CLM? North Florida, Jacksonville area.


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Charles, see my above link to the UC IPM page on CLM. Ray, yes, but you're better off combining Neem plus Spinosad. Spray in the evening on a day you know that the weather for the next few days won't be overly hot. We use Neem and Spinosad combined, 3 sprayings every 3 weeks here in S. California, and have very good results.

Patty S.


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Patty, I Googled citrus leaf miners, because my mature orange tree now has them, and it led me to this old thread. I planted a satsuma near it a few years ago, and the satsuma got it first, so I'm wondering if I planted an infected tree and when the moths emerged from the satsuma they then infected my older orange tree, at least the new growth. I'm getting my usual orange crop right now, but if I don't get rid of the miners, will the trees be able to maintain the vigor needed for blooming and fruiting without decent new growth?

Anyway, thanks for the information about Spinosad. Imagine my surprise when I looked up Spinosad and found it was the same thing - Comfortis - that I give my dogs to kill their fleas! I'll be buying this product, since I really want to use organic, relatively non-harmful products.

Sherry


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Yes, they will. Not to worry. And, CLM is everywhere in the citrus belt, even in Mississippi. Your satsuma may have spread them, or any other citrus tree within a couple of miles of your house. I don't even treat my mature trees, the damage is just cosmetic. I only treat my young trees, where the entire canopy can be affected. The leaves look ugly, but they can continue to do their job. Not to worry.

Patty S.


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

i have a new 15 g Meyer Lemon tree and it was infested. I've pruned back infested leave/ I had WHOLE branches completely destroyed. My poor tree. I've posted some picture. I did make a dawn soap bath and sprayed the leaves. I'm watching to see if they return and if this helps. I was told it odes. Dawn CAN NOT be antibacterial though. I used regular dawn ultra 1tsp for 32 ounces of water. Mix well. I sprayed both my Tomato plant, jalepeno and my citrus. It works well on white files as well. Below are pictures of the leaves before I pruned them back. i was desperate. My poor little tree.


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RE: Help! Citrus leaf miners ......

Stop pruning off the leaves and branches. This is old damage, and your poor tree needs its leaves, even if gnarled-looking, for photosynthesis. Treat now with either a combination of spinosad and Volck Oil, sprayed every 3 weeks (just be sure to use hort oils only when temps are 85 and below). Or, use Bayer Fruit & Vegetable Insect Control (Imidocloprid), now, and then again in 6 months. Dawn soap will not control CLM, which for most of us, has not started quite yet (but is right around the corner).

Patty S.


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