Coconut husks yes. I use 1:1 ratio with good results. Remember you will have to water more often. Soak and drain your husks before creating the mix.

Thanks!

Is there an actual "recipe" thread that contains the recipes for the suggested soils? I cannot seem to find one.
I tried searching pages about the coco-husks and all I found were negative about coco-husks.
I have the following ingredients on-hand. Is there a good recipe I can make with these items?

Peat
Dolomite Lime
Perilite
Coco-husk Block
I have Epsom Salt also

I know I will probably not need all of these, but just listing what I have access to. However, if it is better to buy the pine bark, I can, it will just post-pone how quickly I can transplant.

THANK YOU again! Christy

Here are the instructions for preparing CHC:

http://www.ladyslipper.com/coco3.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: Preparing CHC

That is exactly the same instructions and site I used when I first used coconut husk chips....

Make sure you keep an eye for pH changes, since the pH tends to be high in a quick amount of time, deprivation of Mg and Ca, salt build up, compaction, and yellowing leaves...

Also make sure you know how to judge when to water, since the chips themselves store water for days on end so as to not take on root rot.

It is my hope that if you go this route, someone will be able to guide you to avoid the pitfalls of failed vitality in your plants within the not to distant future..

I will follow this thread and see how much support you get..Some say it is the best stuff on earth, and encourage others to use it, but I hope the same ones help you to be successful at it and guide you every step of the way...I had to learn the hard way, and was left on my own, only to fail..Would you believe that NO one knew how to teach me how to judge when to water?

Mike..:-)

HI MGK65! Thank you so much for the link! It will help out tremendously!
Obviously, I am going to have to take a lot of time with these soils, and not get it done in time before I leave for a few days. But next week, it will be my number 1 garden chore ( thank goodness all the tomatoes are in the ground! I have a good amount of citrus to replant now, including a 6 ft Lemon Tree in a new 25 inch pot! UGG! )

HI Mike!

I will copy and paste the same post I just wrote on my other thread :) I have plenty of citrus I now know need to be re-planted, so I can have the opportunity to try several mixes. So if you have a suggestion for another mixture, please let me know! THANK YOU!!!!!

I did go out and find some bark. So I can do a mix with that also. I have many citrus I need to replant now, so I have plenty of room to experiment.

Yeah, when looking for recipes for the coco-husks, there were negative and positive posts about them I see, so I assume Pine Bark vs. Coco Husks must be a long time debate here???? I guess if I spend more time here, I would get the hang of it all!

So, I have the following at my disposal

Western Fir Bark
Coco Husks
Perilite
Dolimite Lime
Peat
Epsoms Salt

If I could make a great recipe just out of those ingredients, that would be great. I could not come across any gypsum which I saw was an ingredient in one recipe.

Can you suggest a good recipe with those ingredients that I have?>

Thanks again so much for the help!

PS, by the way, I saw an Orchid mix, that was just Fir Bark, Coarse Perilite ( which I cannot find anywhere) and Charcoal. COuld that be a good mix for citrus? Would charcoal hurt citrus at all?

Here is another thread about CHC. Millet is a very informed person He has been growing citrus in his green house for years. so I try to follow his suggestions to the best of my ablilty.
http://citrus.forumup.org/viewtopic.php?t=5625&highlight=chc&mforum=citrus
You can also search this other forum for CHC and see if you can find what you want

Bonechickens, what is the size of your fir bark?

If the sizes are good, you could mix 5 parts bark,1 part peat, 1 part perlite.

Add 1 tablesppon of lime per gallon of mix..That is it. Sit back and watch them grow...Watch the soil hold its structure for a long time to come, and use a well balanced fertilizer with micros, preferably one with Mg and Ca in it...The pH will stay far more in line for your plants needs on a reliable basis....And when the mix dries out, you know it is time to water..

Not that I would not use husks anymore and use to, and I have nothing against those who do, lol. I will take a picture of one of my citrus in the coconut, and show you what it looks like after 2 years in it..I ahve been too lazy to transpalnt this one..waiting for a miracle..
I say the bark is better than the husks, if I was to compare my tree differences in both mixes..;-) But if you do use coconut, you may want to do this..

SOAK, SOAK, SOAK, SOAK, and drain your coconut husk chips, unless you get them form a good source such as the"Chrystal" company. Typically those from Sri Lanka are the best and only have to be rinsed a few times.

Then I would use 5 parts husk chips, one part peat, and one part perlite.
If you are using coconut coir instead of peat, then 5.1.
These were instructions givin to me by the owner of the company that sells the coconut products herself..
I would also let them soak in water with gypsum for Ca. For SURE..Then at everwatering, use Epsom Salts and a vey good fertilizer..Flush this mix out at least twice a month with fresh rain water, to rid the excess salts from for the tap water, fertilizers, and coconut itself.
I would scratch in gypsum as a Ca source once a year, epsecially in the growing season, so you can use ES at least once a week or at every watering..1/4 tablspoon per gallon of water.. As you can see, it takes a great amount of work and dedication to work with chips, but can be done with anyone who knows the key to be successful in growing in them. I failed because it was way too much work, and then the mix collasped in months anyway. I never got the watering thing down either...Make sure you are willing to make the commitment to work along with the coconut products. Their are a few here that I am sure will see you succeed. But I will help you succeed with the bark based mixes.....Your plants deserve it..:-)

Working with bark is a lot less work, aggrivation and more reliable in nutrient delivery without the fear of unpridictable pH spikes..

Mike

One mistake some people make with the CHC:PEAT mix is that the peat should be the fiberous sphagnum moss and not the ground up peat.

The ratio of chc to peat should be 4:1 or 4:2 depending on where you are.

I have my citrus in a 4:1 CHC:PEAT MOSS ratio and they have been doing very well since I repotted them in April. I'll have some new pictures today or tomorrow.

Given the option of bark or coco, I'd take the bark any day of the year.
Of course, bark is readily available for us, here in the Pacific Northwest.

Josh

I like using chc, the reason being, is that it offers aeration and holds moisture. Over watering is never a problem.

Millet which is no longer a member of this site was the first to introduce this soilless mix.

Although I can lead the horse to the water, I will not suck it's as##### to drink.

I'm out of here......

Plant54, don't you find your words a bit harsh for many of us here?

Why the attitude...?

We are here to share ideas,enjoy each others company, share great experiences, and the BAD ones too.. Please don't take it so personal...hereing your good experiences might just encourage others others to grow your way. Why drop a bomb, and then leave? You have many here that would love to learn your method of growing in coconut, and they won't if you just say.." Outa here"..

Peace, and feel free to join in on our conversations when you have clamed down a bit...:-) :-)

I find what you say very interesting, when you are in a good cheers,as you once said you like what I post...I hope you are fine and everything is ok..

Mike

HI everyone!

Sorry, as I said, I had a whole weekend of performances down in AC and was away for a while. I am back now! I see I got a lot of posts while I was away :)

I hope you all know that I appreciate ALL of the info! And like I said, I have A LOT of citrus to replant now out of the crappy Miracle Grow, so I will be using EVERYONE'S suggestions, and have plently of citrus to try everyone's recipes :) So thank you again everyone! I will try both the coco-husks and the bark. ( I hope I am not the horse!)

In matter of fact, I was the person who posted about having 3 polyembrionic tangerine trees stuck together. I have separated them with success. So, since they are practically identical, I can plant one with coco-husks and one with bark and see which one is best for me and my region :)

As for peat, I have a bail of peat moss, light brown fluffy stuff which I also use as an additive to my tomato garden. I assume this is the right stuff?

I have a bag of some actual moss-type stuff also that comes in a bag, to line the bottom of some hanging baskets I have, which is kind of stringy, mossy, stuff? I assume this in NOT the stuff?

Those are the only 2 items I know,I assume the bailed peat moss is the correct one? Should I find a picture to verify that the peat I have is the correct peat?

I live In New Jersey, so obviously, they are indoors half of the year. I usually have to supply artificial light to them in addition to the window sun. ( closer to the fall, I will try to search up on some better lights to purchase for this winter coming)

So, I am going to try and get on this today and tomorrow. I just want to wait for info about my question on peat so I make sure I am using the correct one.

Thank you again! Christy

Hi Christy

That is nice..That is the thing about this hobby..Experimenting with things to gain joy out of our successes....

I am not sure if you have already noticed on other threads, especially the "container" forums, but boy can you start a war on coconut verses bark..lol. That is why I tip toe on this subject....

I came along at the time when Coconut was just gaining popularity, and in fact, I spoke personally to the owner of the The Company that sells it..

Please, continue to come here and share your experiences with us whether good or bad..That is what makes this site so fun and interesting...

Sorry I have nothing positive to say about using coconut, but after the lack of help I recieved to be successful growing with it, and seeeing the poor results for my own, I continue to stick with bark and help others to be satisfied with using it as I was helped..

Anyone who can successfully use coconut only after a few months or longer without any problems, my hats off to them.

In fact, if anyone would like to e-mail privately to try husk chips on one of my citrus as an experiemnet, please do..I will come out and share with everyone here if I can finally gain a positive experience with it...And I would show an appriciation for it!

mikerno_1@yahoo.com

Mike..:-)

The fibrous sphagnum moss is the correct stuff and the ground up stuff is only to be used in the garden! ;)

Don't forget to properly prepare the CHC with the calcium nitrate and epsom salt as in the instructions above.

You see, that is why I am so happy everyone is so helpful! I would have used the wrong moss!

So I want to use the bushy, grey-ish type moss that comes in the bag then and NOT the brown fine peat that comes in the bail?

I have had this bag of moss for a few years, unopened, sitting with me other garden stuff, I assume it does not go bad or anything if not used, right? I was suppose to use it to line a bunch of hanging baskets and never did.

Ok, I think I am almost ready. Do I use a Tablespoon of Lime per gallon for both husks and bark?

thanks again so much! Christy

Christy,

Do not use "lime" in the husks...Just gypsum and water with epsom salts, since lime raises the pH and the pH is already up there. Gypsum does not raise the pH.....
Niether the gypsum nor the espom salts will raise the pH in the husks that already is at about 7.0 all the while providing both Ca and Mg..Someone else might be able to help you further with the husks, especially in the watering department and other factors..;-)

You do should add "lime" to the bark mix though, to bring the pH up to about a 6.0-6.5 from a low pH of about 4.0-4.5 which provides both Ca and Mg too...;-)

The CHC should be prepared as in the article that I gave you above.

It is important for the purpose of exchanging the salts in the CHC with calcium and magnesium.

You will need a few tablespoons of calcium nitrate and Epsom salt for this process. Calcium nitrate can be found at most farm stores. It is also good for tomatoes.

Mgk..I have a question about CHC's...

Can I ask you here or in e-mail?

Thank you..

OK! I just went searching and calling around for calcium nitrate, and I cannot get it anywhere around here. Closest store I would consider a farm store, is Agway, and they are about 2 hours away from me.

Is there something that can be substituted for the calcium nitrate? Or is it worth trying to find someplace that would ship it to me online?

I did not find the gypsum either. I asked at 3 stores the other day for it. What should I do?

I have everything else though.

thanks again!

PS, MeyerMike, I do not care if you ask questions on this post :) I am sure any answers would be a help to me also!

Christy, calcium nitrate is not the easiest thing to find.
I know 3 nursery owners here, and hardware store, and they don't sell it. They say it comes in 50 pound bags and is sold by proffesional greenhouse suppliers.....I called them for you and they had their 50pound bags on back order. If someone knows where to buy this stuff in smaller bags, I too would like to know.

They only use the stuff for irragation and not for mixing in the soil mix. Many nurseries use this for professional mixes..They could be so lucky ha?

It is 22 dollars a 50 pound bag anyways, from "Griffins Greenhouse Suppliers" ..

One place went as far to say that some people use this stuff for bomb making material..Ok..

I was told by three people to use gypsum or calcium carbonate. But then Calcium Carbonate also changes pH, gypsum does not.

If you need gypsum, I would be willing to mail you some. I have plenty of that..:-)

Mike

Unfortunately no substitute for calcium nitrate. I found it at the local farm store. It is also available on ebay.

I found big bags of gypsum at Lowes.

Mike, I can email you or you can post the question here.

Christy, if you are determined to get the calcium nitrate,

I will let my local supplier know and they will get some for me. Then I could probably find uses for it while I ship you a bag of it..It is cheap enough...

Mike

Hi mgk, I will e-mail later..Thank you.

Thank you Mike for the offer! I am going to take an actual trip to the one store just incase they did not know what they were talking about on the phone and they do have the gypsum, if I get the gypsum, then I do not need the calcium nitrate?

In the meantime, I made a batch of 5:1:1 while I am waiting to get the rest of the ingredients for the CH recipe.

Here is a pic of how it turned out. I wish I could find a more coarse perilite, but no luck. Some of the bark seems a little big, but I guess it is ok? Should I try to break up some of the long fibers of the spagnum peat? Or does this look ok>? I did notice that the perilite seems to travel to the bottom a little bit when I watered it. IS that something to worry about>?
Oh, there is lime in there also.

If this mix looks ok, I will do my first transplanting. While I was taking pics, the next picture down is the tree I originally posted that got stressed after transplant which started my search for a better mix. DOes it seem ok? Not too far harmed? This will be the first I transplant.

Then I took a picture of my big 25" container lemon tree. Which I am in desparate need for info about. I should probably start a new post about this, which I will probably do in the next day or so, but real quick, it was grown from seed from a parent lemon tree, brought over from Italy about 80 years ago. the parent produced the largest lemons I ever saw.
This seedling is atleast 10 years old now. It finally started to bloom 4-5 years back, but HAS NEVER made a fruit! It is almost like there is nothing to pollinate in the flower I wonder. I never even see the beginnings of a lemon like you do with other citrus.
But its parent did fine with no pollinator. Anyway, I will start a new post with all the info about it. I just thought I would post a picture while I was here!

And, the last picture, is about half of my citrus plants in their party pic! the other half are scattered around the yard, and will have to group them up to take another picture. I guess I should post this one on mike's party thread!

Thanks again for all the help! CHristy

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Stressing Meyer Lemon after transplant into the poisonus Miracle Grow Soil! BEWARE! LOL!
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My Huge 25" potted Lemon tree, originally a baby from a Lemon tree brought over on the boat from Italy over 80 years ago! Lemon-less though :(

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Half of my citrus party! ( other half picture coming soon!)
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The calcium nitrate and epsom salts are used for preparing the CHC.

Gypsum is used as a source of calcium and magnesium in mixes without raising pH.

Good pictures!

Some citrus can take 10-15 years to begin to produce fruit. I would suggest letting it grow, with minimal or no trimming. The number of interleaf nodes from the roots is important in determining whether the tree will fruit.

You know, that might work, although I have never use the fiber...

Now sure how the mix will hold up or how much moisture it will hold and how long. But it looks very course and you'll probably see your tre react nicely or poorly..Most likely nicely...

Let us know how it goes will you..

It looks good though..:-)

DId I use the wrong peat? I thought it was the fiberous spagnum peat one I was suppose to use and not the bail stuff you add to the garden?
Mike,what do you use? I hope I did not make this wrong now! Can I add something to it to make it better? Should I add some of the bailed fine beat to it? UGG! I was waiting for your responce before I planted, so I still have not planted yet.

mgk65, I have to learn more about numbers and nodes! I will comment in the new post about the tree I made! Thanks!

Hi bonechickens...I think mgk65 was advicing to use fiberous spagnum with CHC..

But what I use is just regular peat. I usually use a MG grow bag purchased at Home Depot. A small bag.
I think the bailed one is the same.
5 parts bark, 1 part peat, and 1 part perlite with 1 tablespoon of lime per gallon.

If it were me, I would use 1 part peat to 5 parts of what you made. I am a bit concerned about it filling all round ALL your roots and staying evenly moist through out. It looks like it would dry out too fast.

Sorry for the delay in response. I was a way for a day..:-)

Mike

Sorry Mike! The "UGG" was for me using the wrong stuff! LOL!
Not, because you were away :) No problem! Take your time!

So, if I add 1 part bailed peat to the mix,it should be ok? Yes, you can buy it in small bags but I have a big tomato garden so I just get the cubic bail from the Home Depot.
I will add one part bailed peat to this and take another picture.
Should I just start over with a new mix if you think the wrong peat would not be good? I guess it will be better to tell once I take a new picture.

OK, so now I know, that each mix uses a different peat. I hope I got it now!

Ok, I will be back in a bit!
Christy

Sorry Mike! The "UGG" was for me using the wrong stuff! LOL!
Not, because you were away :) No problem! Take your time!

So, if I add 1 part bailed peat to the mix,it should be ok? Yes, you can buy it in small bags but I have a big tomato garden so I just get the cubic bail from the Home Depot.
I will add one part bailed peat to this and take another picture.
Should I just start over with a new mix if you think the wrong peat would not be good? I guess it will be better to tell once I take a new picture.

OK, so now I know, that each mix uses a different peat. I hope I got it now!

Ok, I will be back in a bit!
Christy

Again Mike, I am sorry if my post seemed to imply that I was referring to you! I should not of put those 2 sentences next to each other. I was just complaining to myself that I used the wrong peat for the wrong mix. I greatly appreciate the advice!

Here are the new photos after I added the bailed peat to the mixture. I even took a picture of the peat bag that I added just to check. I will save the fiberous peat for the coco-husk recipe.

These are pics of the mixture wet. The new peat definitely filled in all the empty space from the coarse bark. It also seems to help hold the perilite up now from falling to the bottom.

Does this mixture look correct now? Or does it need more or less of something?

Thanks again! Christy
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Thanks to all. I have been watching forums for an easy mix. I have a satsuma that was doing good in MG cactus/citrus mix which is not cheap and is now super sick. Yellow leaves dead limbs. In begining of winter and during it looked pretty good and even gave us some fruit.After winter it got like this. My brother who lives very close has his citrus in just regular potting soil and they are doing picture perfect. Same fert. as I was using. I have a meyer I bought about 3 years ago and fourwinds said to mix in cedar shavings to potting soil so I did that but no ratio formula just made a fast draining soil. It still drains fast but retains a lot of moisture. The probe on both the cactus/citrus mix of satsuma and cedar soil mix of meyer reads wet for days and days even though they drain fast. I was wondering if I use this bark mix if it will snap the sick trees out of there yellow and almost 0 leaves. I notice from the fourwinds nursery their mix also has tiny red lava rocks in it. I am gonna try and put some pics in this post. Hope it was ok to tag along on this as it was the best soil post I have found. How do I get a photo on here??

Photos of meyer and satsuma I hope.
http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/slideshow/AlbumID=5008746013/PictureID=216184217013/a=130777032_130777032/otsc=SHR/otsi=SPIClink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/

http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/slideshow/AlbumID=5008746013/PictureID=216184216013/a=130777032_130777032/otsc=SHR/otsi=SPIClink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/

http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/slideshow/AlbumID=5008746013/PictureID=216184215013/a=130777032_130777032/otsc=SHR/otsi=SPIClink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/

Bonechickens,

I could of sworn I posted you a response!

It looks fine...I would just watch how wet it stays and how long, or fast it dries out. Make sure to cover all your roots,ok.

I actually had a couple plants showing signs of overwatering today. The leaves were getting yellow all of a sudden. I took those out of their pots to check the mix, and it was staying WET, very wet near the bottom. I mixed the mix wrong. On one, a bigger chunk of bark was blocking the drain hole.
Also,not enough perlite and I did not do a good mixing of the ingredients. So too many smaller particles had settled to the bottom, while the bigger particles stayed towards the surface.. All is ok now..

It is trial and error for many, before they get their mix just right like it was and still is for me. But I know what to look for in my plants that tells me their feet are not happy.

Mike

Thanks Mike! I will go re-plant right now! If it seems to be staying too wet, then what would I need more of in the mix? Perilite? Or something else? I have mixed for days, so I think it is mixed ok. I did notice that the perilite was falling to the bottom before adding the bailed peat, but once I added that, it seems to be holding up much better. I may add some extra drain holes in the pot though just as an extra precaution.

You know, I was so worried about them being over watered and wet, that I was not watering them everyday. Now I think they got dried out in the heat! UGG!

So I am on this.

bigmario, I am new to the soil mixes obviously, but the 2 best mixes seem to be the cocohusk recipe and the 5:1:1, which have both been shared on this thread.
The pictures I have up are the 5:1:1 mix I made, but I did mess it up at first with the wrong peat. But the wrong peat for the 5:1:1 is actually the right peat for the cocohusks.
I will be also making the cocohusk recipe, I just have not found one of the ingredients for it yet. But when I make it, I will post it here.

OK! Off to transplant! Be back with pictures of the re-plant! Christy

I find that with the 5:1:1 mix that I have used for several pots, including my blueberries and some herbs, that I have to water every couple of days.