this one is the orange so is the first pic

lemon

this is the lemon

IMHO if they came from Four Seasons, they are as good as they could be. If they are Meyer lemons, and they came from Mayan Meyer lemons, they MIGHT be better.

Yes they came from 4 seasons nursery and just came in the mail yesterday. the lemon is Citrus limon 'Meyeri' and the orange is Citrus x citrofortunella mitis. I think the orange looks greener today then it did yesterday.

I think Johnmerr is confusing Four Seasons nursery with Four Winds nursery!
Four Winds sell excellent citrus trees and are expensive.
Four Seasons plants are cheap, but not so good. Their citrus are small and probably grown from cuttings.
The 'orange' is not really an orange, but a calamondin which produces small and very sour, orange coloured fruit.

Citrange is correct in everything he said, including my confusion.

ok but besides that how do they look. whats wrong with grown form cuttings?

They look healthy; and there is nothing with rooted cuttings if you are going to grow them in containers. For in ground plantings the roots are often weak and susceptible to diseases that a grafted tree would not be.

oh they have to be inside since i live in Missouri. I dont think it said if they are cuttings or grafted so i dont know. I know they are dwarf. Thanks im glad they look healthy it took 3 weeks for me to receive them. i cant wait till they produce fruit lol.

Can't you Summer them outdoors? Missouri is pretty hot.

That mix looks really heavy, and likely to give you problems indoors, particularly during the Winter. Do the pots have drainage holes?

Josh

i think it was miracle grow mix. I grew some orange trees from store bought fruit seeds that wouldnt produce fruit so got rid of them and got these that will.

MG is generally considered one of the worst for citrus. There is a mountain of information here regarding 5-1-1 and gritty mix if you do a search.

BTW if you are sure they are dwarf, they have to be grafted; did they not come with some sort of nursery tag that would tell you what is the rootstock?

well thats what it says they are dwarf. no dont think i got anything saying anything about rootstock. I saw to use miracle grow cactus and citrus mix

MG cactus and citrus mix is better than MG potting soil; you could leave it for now; and maybe change the pot and the soil next Spring after they are outside and producing new growth. Just be careful not to over water; most MG soils tend to hold too much water for too long.

they will be inside id like to keep them inside. it said mix not soil i made sure of that before i bought it.

All Miracle Grow mixes are crap and the citrus one is worst than any for citrus.
That mix will compact and suffocate holding too much water if not now by winter.

Why can't you use half perlite and the mix if that is all you have access to.

The cuttings are cute and small but will grow fast if given the right mix, light, water, and fertilizer.

Mike

Good luck. They won't perform very well kept indoors indefinitely. Do you have a significant lighting set-up that you'll be using?

Josh

If they are cutting grown they are not true dwarf, dwarfs are that way because of being grafted to dwarfing root stocks.
However, they probably called them dwarf because both Meyer and Calamondin are naturally smallish trees compared to most citrus trees. Nothing wrong with cutting grown trees in pots.

I agree with the others, you really should grow those outside while you can, in the spring, summer and fall until it gets too cold.
Citrus are not really house plants, they need much more light than that during their active growing time. People get away with overwintering them inside because they don't grow much during the winter months and so can make do with lower light, but year round it won't be enough light.

Put them outside in shade for the first few days, then gradually put them in more sun each day over a couple weeks until they can take the full day sun. In late fall, reverse that, until they're in shade most of the day, then bring inside for the cold months.
And I'd also recommend to change the potting soil before you bring them inside to something that will drain better. The suggestions made are good ones. Good luck and happy growing!

they never said if they were cuttings or grafted so i dont know about that. my orange trees were kept indoor all year round and they were at least 5 feet tall. I think 4 seasons only sell dwarf citrus trees.

they are right in front of a window and the window is open always during warm weather.

Outdoor shade is about 5 times brighter than the sunniest indoor window.....

Josh

Punky, I would contact the nursery and ask if these are grafted trees (which they do not appear to be, based on your photos), or grown from cuttings. It does help to know, but in the end, grafted or not, the container will keep them much smaller, than if you were to grow them in the ground. I would move them outdoors for as long as possible. You have gotten good advice as far as using a more porous potting medium, since citrus do not tolerate wet roots, and your potting medium is much to heavy and water-retentive. You should also be fertilizing frequently, and most container folks on this forum prefer to use Dyna Gro's Foliage Pro with every watering, as well as a time release product, such as Osmocote Plus.I would search this forum for "511" or "Gritty" mixes, to get the recipe for these potting mediums. Everyone has given you good advice, and answered your questions.

Patty S.

i did get growing instructions with the trees and it says not to fertilize for the first year? I know they are a dwarf orange and dwarf lemon. Dwarf citrus is the only kind they sell.

Those are the stupidist directions I veer heard..Imgaine not feeding a baby for a year?

What kind of company tells their buyers to not feed their plants and not take the time on how to properly plant them into mixes that should be porous?
Oops, most of them..lol
I remember a time when I had a long talk with 4 Winds, and very popular and reputable company about potting up citrus and their suggestions have certainly changed since we talked...

I would pay heed to what others are saying here and forget the instructins from that company for sure..By the time your little ones grow to a good size, you will be able to call them back and tell them how to grow their cuttings into beautiful trees..

Hi Patty..Good to see you)))

Hello Josh!

MIke

it says not to fertilize till the second year when feeding roots are established cause fertilizing to soon and damage young roots?

Not true. Fertilizing will encourager strong root growth and support on the canopy above.

Mike

Punky, those directions are for in-ground citrus, not for container citrus. What Mike just told you. You can very safely use 1/2 strength Foliage Pro with every watering without fear of damaging new feeder roots. I would contact the grower and ask what rootstock they use to graft their citrus to. Most grafted citrus are not truly "dwarf", as that would mean they were grafted to 'Flying Dragon', which is not that usual. If they are grafted, they are probably grafted to a semi-dwarfing rootstock. But, as I mentioned, they don't appear to be grafted (can't tell for sure, as your photos are not close up enough at the trunk to see a graft line). But, the seller can tell you for sure.

Patty S.

ok contacted the company and they are cutTings. Poked some holes In the bottom for drainage

Punky, you're going to need more than poked holes in the bottom of the pot for drainage. I suggest, if you live in a non-citrus area and need to bring your trees into the house during the winter, to re-pot with a better draining potting mix. And, your trees are not "dwarf", since there is not rootstock involved to impart any dwarfing growth habits. Your trees will naturally stay smaller since they are in a container, but may need more pruning (both canopy and root pruning) as they grow. And of course, regular fertilizing since they are also in containers. Most folks on this forum prefer to use DynaGro Foliage Pro, as well as a high quality time release fertilizer formulated for citrus, such as Osmocote Plus.

Patty S.

ok well i put alot of holes in the bottom and it is draining. yes i live in missouri so they cant be outside

They cannot be outside all year, you do not live in the "citrus belt" . Being outside for the summer with all your rain that you get may cause your potting medium to get very wet, and cause the roots to suffocate. And, you will need to bring your trees inside during a significant part of the year to avoid freezing. Holes are not sufficient. You will find that you will need to use better draining potting medium. Search the forum for "511 mix" and you'll see an easy recipe for an excellent potting medium. Even I do not use this type of potting medium for my container citrus that stay outside all year 'round in a much more arid climate for all those reasons.

Really, truly. You can persist with this heavy potting medium and eventually kill your trees, or you can switch to something that will drain properly and have trees that will survive for you. Ask any of the members on the list who grow citrus outside the citrus belt, and they will tell you the same thing. Or, you can just do it your own way and deal with dead roots and possibly a dead tree later on. Up to you. No one that I know on this forum has had any long-term success with this type of potting mix.

Patty S.

There inside. I had Some kind of potting soil old actually that I grew my orange trees from seeds in and they grew to be at least 5 feet tall and I never fertilized them but I will try to take some of, you're suggestions

There inside. I had Some kind of potting soil old actually that I grew my orange trees from seeds in and they grew to be at least 5 feet tall and I never fertilized them but I will try to take some of, you're suggestions

So those seedling 5' trees, how are they doing, now?

Patty S.

Not to be rude or even hateful but just being blunt. You are being incredibly stubborn. The members here are giving you there time and energy and advice to ensure the happiness of your trees and all you are doing is ignoring the advice and defending your method. I guarantee that if continue down the path of keeping your citrus trees inside, with poked holes, and a non draining citrus mix you will not only be wasting money and then you will be posting back on here about what is wrong with my trees. My advice is to take the experience and knowledge from these citrus growers and run with it.

i used a drill bit for the holes? im not trying to be stubborn im not ignoring anything. I got rid of the trees since they wouldnt produce and got some that would.

And we continue to tell you that drilling holes (with a drill bit, hammering in a nail, whatever) will not suffice. So, continually telling us you have put holes in the bottom of your container is moot. And, seedlings will produce, it just may take a few years longer.

In any event, your heavy, dense potting medium is going to present water retention issues for you (no matter that you have drainage holes). This has been the pervasive and consistent experience from many members of this forum who have grown container citrus for some years. So, you can heed the advice of the members of this forum, or, simply choose to to what you want, and see how things go for you. We wish you luck.

Patty S.

Punky, I am hoping in good faith that you came here for a purpose, and that is to learn from others so you can have success?

Well, coming from one of those from outside the citrus belt, I can tell you that those trees will fail in that mix, unless you leave them permanently on the ground so you can connsider your pot a raised bed which is comprable to the wicking method. That might work but such a pain.

Great adivce here given from great people who do a great job with their trees...I wish you success..

MIke

Okay, I did a little searching. I think this is where you may have bought your rooted cuttings from?

http://www.4seasonsnurseries.com/detail.asp?pid=1108
http://www.4seasonsnurseries.com/detail.asp?pid=1115

If so, let's actually explain what you bought. First, the lemon you have is the Improved Meyer lemon. It is not a "dwarf" tree, although its growth habit is compact and bush-like. But, more importantly, the "orange" you bought is not an orange tree. It is actually a Calamondin (Citrus x citrofortunella mitis). A Calamondin is no more like an orange than a Meyer lemon is, with the exception of having an orange-colored peel. Calamondins are also compact in their growth habit, but, they do not taste anything like a sweet orange. They are very sour, and for most folks, cannot be eaten out of hand (unless you can eat a lemon out of hand). Just so you know.

Patty S.

Who ever is the company that grew those two trees, they need to learn how to grow citrus . Not good.

what do you mean who ever is the company that grew those two trees, they need to learn how to grow citrus. not good. I dont understand what you mean.

Yes i know what kind they are thanks

So I did fertilize them like you guys said.