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johnorange_gw

Grew thorns from seed of grafted calamondin

johnorange
10 years ago

I had all sorts of biology, genetics, and other such classes in college and this just doesn't make sense. Please enlighten me!

I planted a Calamondin tree (produces a small fruit with a sweet skin and a very sour flesh) that, like most citrus was from a graft. In this area we often have trifoliate orange as the root-stock. I planted seeds from fruit off this tree and the plant from the seed is VERY thorny but doesn't have foliage like the trifoliate orange. I want to know how the seed (which would have the genetics of the upper stem portion of my grafted tree which is not thorny) from my calamondin grew thorns very unlike the upper part of my calamondin.

Comments (9)

  • johnmerr
    10 years ago

    Virtually all citrus seedlings have thorns. I don't necessarily know the scientific explanation; only the fact.

  • johnorange
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks Johnmerr, yes, I have lemons and limes and they are thorny. Somehow, the genetics of a branch that is grafted into new root stock apparently express differently than on its native roots. I know some root stock does well in certain soil and climates but not in others so it's nice that grafting helps us grom plants we couldn't otherwise grow but it amazes me to see a fruit produced by thornless wood grow a VERY thorny offspring.

  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    10 years ago

    Grafted citrus varieties are created from extremely mature wood. Usually this wood is nearly thornless. I know this is true for oranges for example.

    Juvenile growth in citrus (from seed) is thorny in most varieties. This may be a seedling's way to protect itself somewhat from grazing.

    Anyway, once your tree reaches a certain height (I have no idea how high), that highest growth may eventually have smaller to no thorns. But it will be very high up in the tree.

    It all has to do with the nature of how citrus wood changes its appearance and characteristics from juvenile to mature over time. Juvenile wood is not able to flower and produce fruit either.

  • hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
    10 years ago

    John has given you the basics & Dave has given you the exact explanation - has to do with where the budwood was cut for the grafted trees, John. What you're seeing is very normal for any citrus seedling - Calamondin, Lemons, Oranges, Pummelos, etc. No surprise here.

    Patty S.

  • poncirusguy6b452xx
    10 years ago

    It also applies to all other trees. They grow differently at youth and maturity whether it is a thorn tree or not. If you got the seedling from the nuclear embryo it should grow true to the mother plant and will have no trifoliate leaves.

  • johnorange
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Fantastic responses! I think I will be able to sleep at night again and I don't need to wonder if we and Mendel have missed some important genetics research opportunities.

    Thanks folks!

  • hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
    10 years ago

    Yes, no need to worry at all, John! Some citrus cultivars can be wickedly thorny when young, then become completely thornless. I was really shocked to see what were about 2" long thorns on my Yosemite Gold mandarin of all things. And, this is a grafted (but young) tree. It has a big growth spurt, and on the new branches there were thorns that would make your knees weak, I was really surprised, as it's "cousins", the Shasta Gold and Tahoe Gold mandarins were not sporting these enormous thorns. It's just a young citrus's way to protect itself and its tender new growth from animals wishing a yummy meal. Seedlings will always be more pronounced in their thorniness as you don't see this "mature budwood" phenomena that you do with grafted citrus. Usually. But, not in the case of my Yosemite Gold mandarin, which is definitely grafted!

    Patty S.

  • johnmerr
    10 years ago

    Patty,

    Maybe what you had was a water sprout. Quite a few citrus varieties have thorns on water sprouts; some water sprouts of my Meyers have huge thorns; but if you cut them back to the general canopy level, they revert back to normal growth, normal leaf size, and normal thorns.

  • johnorange
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    While we are discussing thorns on citrus, maybe we should just mention for newly budding citrus growers that sometimes grafted citrus will develop very thorny growth from the very base of the tree where the rootstock is. The leaves will probably be different from the new leaves on the rest of the tree. These should be trimed off close to the trunk to prevent them from robbing nutrients from the fruit-bearing grafted part of the tree.