Garnetmoth,

I think you're on the right track as far as the hormones go. They are probably the reason for any results from this substance.

I just took a look at their (badly-made) website and it is made up entirely of scanned paper ads. They read like they were badly translated from a foreign language. It is littered with unprovable and tenuous claims like "World's Best, #1" this and that and "over 60 years of guaranteed far best." Also, "The Universal Plant Achievement Of All Time," they claim. What the hell is that supposed to even mean?

For crying out loud, they claim it helped WIN World War II! LOL!

The reputed inventor John Thomson is "listed in 25 Who's Who directories." Well, I am in more than a dozen of them for no greater achievement than being a member of a group or organization. He is also a "D.A" whatever that is and a PH.D. (folks, that's a doctor of philosophy.) Kind of like a plumber inventing new computer technology, definitely possible, but I'm not going to expect miracles from it.

I think Superthrive is like most products, people will use it if they believe it works. When you spend money on something, you want to think it was worth it so you may see results where there really aren't any. And, you will NEVER admit that you wasted your money.

I for one find it unbelievable that 1 drop per gallon of just about anything (except poison) will do much.

Well, the website is annoying to read with its typewriter font.

there arent actual reports, there are just snippets of endorsements. Often, with an organization but not a person attached to the name. All their USDA Experts are unnamed. Id want some recognition if i did some good research!

It claims to work on all things and in all places, and thats a giveaway term for "scam" in most industries. I dont doubt that it works for you, but the website has dissuaded me if anything because it only has testimonials.

it also says science several times, without outlining experiments. If you have a field, and use Super Thrive on the whole thing, and theyre all great, thats not science. You need a control set. Something that does not get your treatment to compare against. Im engaged to a scientist, and have taken research methodology, so it makes me cranky when they mis-use "science"

if it works for you tho, thats whats important!

Garn, again, I'm not trying to talk anyone into using ST. I only know it works for me, and several other people I've talked to and know.
Since I do not fertilize 98% of my plant after Oct, I continue using ST. I believe this product is one reason my plants do well.
We are not all going to agree on what to use on our plants..For instance, a person on houseplant forum doesn't believe in using fertilizers on his plants. He states using proper soil will keep plants thriving. I both agree and disagree with him. He compared plants in the desert and jungles..But when pot grown, soil loses nutrients after time, so unless a person renews soil, the plant will suffer.
Unless one uses a product I feel there's no room for judgement.
It's like eating a certain food..for instance, I do not like seafood..Most ppl loe it. But just looking at a dead fish sickens me. It may taste incredible, but I pass it up. Yet, I don't condemn fish because I've never tasted it.
Same concept.
What about vitamins for ppl? Some swear they feel so much better when using, and others scoff at them, saying they don't feel one bit different than before using. Well, weather you use ST or not, I'm not offended, so I surly don't want to dispute the topic with you, Garn.
You seem like a nice person..congrats on your engatement..
Since you're interested in science, if you've 2 plants that can be rooted in water, like a Spider, Pothos, or Philodendron..Take 2 cuttings, and place in water..use ST in one container, and plain water in the second..Don't even bother w/fertilizer..See which roots faster. It's only a suggestion..Toni

Thanks, and thanks also for keeping this lighthearted. I like to look into new concepts, and am occasionally bull-headed, but mostly just curious and not very diplomatic ;-)

I am a recently graduated Dietitian, so I have a BUNCH to say about supplements, etc. but thats not for this forum ;-) A human, animal, or plant not getting the nutrients for them will be unwell. The nutrients required by all beings is not the same.

People need a wide variety of foods to get the minerals, vitamins, fiber, protein, carbs, and fat that is optimal for us. Pandas are vegetarian. Lions eat raw meat. Different organisims fit in differently.

Just out of fun, i might order the mini trial packet for postage.

I DO like Dr. Bronners crazy magical vegan soap, which has similar fantastical writings on it. But it smells nice and is organic. :-)

Garn, sounds like you're super healthy..lol..are you a vegatarian?
I'm finding I eat less and less meat because of the fat..it makes me sick looking at it..
I enjoy ground beef but will only buy round or serloin.
You'd hate my diet..I eat one meal per day, and no vits..lol..my plants and birds eat much better than I..lol..
How about your future wife? When will you be getting married? Congrats again..it's so exciting..Big wedding?
Yes, try the mini trial pack and do the experiment. It can't hurt, right? Do you have plants to root?
I don't know what Dr. Bronners crazy magical vegan soup is..lol..is it veggie filled? I do like veggies..yum, and dote on soups..
Ok, as long as you know I'm not trying to battle with you, Garn..as I stated, people have different ways of growing plants..this includes foods, vits, sun, soils..etc, etc..Right? No hard feelings? Toni

Toni,
Sorry I'm not really on topic, but I think Garnetmoth is a lady. I could be wrong, all of us are at some point.
;-)

i use superthrive

the Texas A&M extension master gardeners all recommend it

so to each his own
its not that expensive
sold at home depot, lowes, etc

Garn, I'm soooo very sorry..It's difficult sexing ppl by their screen names..
I too was thought of as a male, until some ppl saw my pic on my ex-site, lol..I apologize..

Casa, thanks for correcting my mistake.

Myador, what does A&M stand for? I too use ST, and think it's fantastic..In fact, I just repotted the last 5 new citrus received, and because they were recently fed, I ST'd them all..Toni

I am a female, but not all would agree im a lady :-) Gracias Gatos!

no harm done. I am sending out for the trial for postage tomorrow in the mail. If nothing else, youve got me interested in an actual experiment. My fiance is a PhD candidate in Science Ed, and were thinking about his research on science fair projects right now.

I either need a job or he needs to graduate to have a wedding, my Dad supported me through a second degree, so I can not expect him to foot a wedding right now!

A&M is Agricultural and Mechanical school.

Garn, lol, love your first line..
Try the experiment, can't hurt..

Well, congrats, anyway..When will he graduate? Do you want to work? LOL Toni

Oh dear, apparently I didn't pose my question clearly enough. I was asking for people who have had GOOD/positve results, not negitive opinions. Sorry for the confusion. You see I'm doing a paper on ST and I already have researched the site and its form of advertising.

Thank you Tony. If you have any more stories of ST working for you I would appreciate hearing about them.

Garnetmoth, I'm glad to hear you are going to give ST a try dispite all the negitivity. It is nice to see people giving a product an honest try to decide for themselves if it is worthwhile dispite crazy advertising and such varing opinions.

Does anyone else have a positive story about ST they would like to share? Laura.

Well, I dont blame anyone for skepticism. A decent dose of it keeps a person from sometimes wasting money and time.

Im interested in your interest in ST: are you asking who, despite the crazy ads, does trust it?

I did not read your initial post as "I am only interested in positive testimonials on ST" and it is an open forum, so you got mixed results. Thats the best part, IMHO, about forums, because you get the pros and cons.

Spending some money on some amount of it probably wont ruin a persons life, whether it works or not. but if there are neutral or negative experiences, those must be weighed with the good in order to have a balanced view.

As an example: people have lost weight on the grapefruit or cabbage soup diets. That does not mean the diets are healthy, safe, or will result in long-term weight loss.

I just graduated college and am waiting for my transcripts to be able to get licensure and a job... I am taking some of that out on this forum ;-)

Garn, relax..those transcripts will be just fine. BTW, what part of TN do u live?
I was out there 2 yrs ago when my MIL passed away..Tullahoma, Tn..Oh boy I'd move there tomorrow if I could..It's so relaxing, comfy, and people are pleasant. The scenry is fantastic, and everyone is so laid-back..

Laura, I'll tell you how ST works for me.
Seedlings: I've been sowing annual seeds for many years, starting in mid-winter. They'd take their time germinating..Then I got the idea of adding ST in the water..Since then, seedlings germinate twice as fast. An example..two Sat's ago I forget I had Ornamental kale seeds in the fridge..they need a cooling off period..I sowed them in peat pellets, added water w/ST, and they had sprouted 4 days later..The last I looked they were 8" tall.

Cuttings: Like sowing seed, I sometimes take cuttings, especially when someone from another forum asks for one..,Again, using ST, the cuttings roots in days..Of course this depends on the type of cutting, but most tropicals will take 5-10 days..

Establisted plants: I explained about the Bottle Tree I thought dead, above..
Because I use monthly, througout the yr, unlike feeding, many plants overwinter w/o much harm..I'm not going to say 100% get by w/o problems, but the majority do.
I grow many plants, other than citrus..If you have African Flowers, add ST once a month and see the difference in flower size..not only size but length of time they remain.
Not only AV's, but other flowering plants, like Jasmine, gardenias...It's truly amazing.
So, in my opinion, it works from seedling to maturity.
I've also heard it works w/grafting plants, but this is speculation, since I've never grafted a plant.
All in all, this is my view on ST..I hope you complete your paper...I'd give u a gold star..LOL..
Only those who have actually used ST should share their views before an opinion is made. Toni

So, your doing a "paper" on the product ST, and you ONLY want the report to be ONE SIDED, and to only show any use that might posssibly have had some sort of a positive result. Would you call that report a well rounded report, a fair report, or even close to a true report? Do you really think your report would be worth reading? I have never heard of such a thing. - Millet

People once thought the earth was flat and would never believe otherwise..People also believed it impossible to go to the moon, but ol' Neil fooled them. Toni

Im about done with this thread after this but...
Nashville, TN. Really friendly folks, good pork!

even a persuasive paper arguing FOR something is best when it examines both sides of a topic. About the only reason youd only talk about the positives is if you were selling it.

Before there was science there was only religion and/or mythology. Churches, Kings, or tribal leaders forbade people from disagreement. Now we know there are things in this physical world we can observe more than once, and can confirm or not confirm that a set of circumstances has a certain outcome (real simple outline of science. If someone else makes the same experiment, they should have similar results.)

There are are also things like faith that we have or not. Science can not prove or disprove those. So I feel something like superthrive, which is in the physical, chemical world, is best understood by doing an experiment.

Garn, I assure you I am in no way affiliated with ST company..it is my opinion that it's a great product, therefore I believe people should at the least, be aware it exists..Many people who grow plants, especially those who just start, don't know what to use on their plants. Including types of fertilizers, etc.

Queens, Presidents, and church leaders still exist..Many churches forbid people to make their own decisions, abortion one example, and always will.

Duke University studies the paranormal, ESP, etc.

AFter you get your FRee sample of ST, give it a try..LMK..

Nashville is 60 miles south of Tullahoma..Toni

and some folks will still insist on knowing the good with the bad if they can learn about them both ;-)

In this day and age, there are a lot of things you can learn about even if youre morally opposed to them. I think were getting a bit esoteric about this.

Not accusing you of being a salesman at all. be well!

Let me first say I'm not affilated with ST and I'm not trying to sell their product. Let me also add that this forum is not the only source of information I'm using. I also never stated this paper is supposed to be scientific or in anyway having to with the chemical use of this product. I have been polite to all of you and even appoligised for not making my question clear enough. I find it amazingly rude for people to lash out at me without having all the facts. I would have happily explained the purpose of the paper if it wouldn't have had an effect on the responses. I'm astounded by the fact many people here will go off on someone baised on their personal assumptions alone. Furthermore do you all think this would be the only source of information for a well rounded report? I would think one source does not a well rounded report make! As supprising as this may sound you all have been very helpfull and have gained me some interesting insite to what I'm working on. Oh yes, by the way, Millet, I'm sure this paper will be well worth the read. Thank you all for your help. Laura

this is #9 of the Forum Agreement: Users are not allowed to make solicitations, for themselves or others, nor may they run contests or surveys in the forums.

Also, content isnt reproduceable without the express consent of the posters.

Im not upset, Im curious, and exerting my freewill to question why this product is valued despite its unusual properties.
if the paper isnt scientific, is it about discourse and learning? how folk beliefs are propagated in a community? sounds like an interesting take if so :-)

have a good day everyone!

Garn, I argee solicitations are not to be made if the poster owns or is affiliated w/a company/nursery, but naming places to buy plants, supplies, etc, is mentioned on all forums, and isn't against regulations.
For instance, when someone asks where a citrus can be found, we all name places where we purchase our trees.
Gardenweb affiliates check posts and if they see something they don't feel approprate, the post is deleted..
I and a few others confronted one person who owns a citrus nursery..she was told it's against rules, was given directions to Forum Agreements. This IS against GW policy.
But if you ask where to purchase supply's, etc, ppl will name places, and/or give addresses.
There are a few nurseries that cannot be mentioned here, but I don't know the reason..my guess is the nurseries are notorius for shipping unhealthy plants.

So, discussing Superthrive isn't a problem..Toni

Solicitations usually involve sales by way of shameless plugs. (Where were you when someone was recently plugging her own nursery right and left?) In fact any time that anyone asks a question in this forum, they are -by definition- *surveying* other forum members, or *soliciting* their advice. And, while it may be against forum rules to reproduce content, it's not against the rules to reproduce context. -- Big difference between the two. If you are going to question the validity of the author's methods, why would you immediately follow with comments and questions about the subject of her research? I didn't know I was in a forum with wordsmiths, Pulitzer winners and media renaissance people.

Laura, some folks around here can be surly at times. They generally give good plant advice though. I'm sorry your initial experience here came at a time during which some people had fluctuating hormone levels (my apologies to Tom Cruise). If there is anything I can do to help you, please feel free to send me an e-mail via this forum. And please stick around. Once again, this forum is usually chock full o' interesting experiments, photos and advice -- through solicitations and surveys.

I am apparently looking like a donkeys rear, and for that I appoligize.

I had a valid question about what someone was using for their plants. It wasnt exactly 100% on topic to ask how it worked, but it was about the product.

I was inquiring about why they thought it worked, and someone asserted they had seen studies it didnt. then the original poster let us know we were guinea pigs for data collection, and only wanted positive reviews.

I am truly curious about the paper because I do not see how its valid to cite a forum. Im akward and hardheaded, but not trying to be nasty.

Garnetmoth - The original post asks a simple two-part question: "Has anyone here used superthrive and had good results?" Apparently you have not, so the "we" part of your guinea pig comment doesn't include you (or me). And, since when does answering a question make anyone a guinea pig? The author didn't exactly ask you to use Superthrive on your plants and send in your report. -- And I am curious about the report too. In fact, Superthrive has been the subject of many heated debates here, to the point that some people had to pray for forgiveness once the dust settled. I own a bottle of the stuff. It sits on the bookshelf in my office. I'm thinking of using it some day so the manufacturer's can add "used by a really nice guy" to their overcrowded label.

It appears to me that often in forums, people ask related things in a thread, or ask about how someones life is going, whatever. I obviously dont know anyone well enough yet to BS or stray off topic.

this got WAY outtahand, and I am sorry if I offended anyone by being curious. I havent ever heard of superthrive and im a new citrus mommy, so im a bit overzealous about getting into discussions.

I am also engaged to an educator, so I am curious about someone using a thread post for a paper.

I will try to be on topic, and not meander unless I know its OK with the poster.

Happy paper writing Hemi!

I have been using Superthrive for a couple years - most notably for transplanting - whether between pots or into the ground. It seems to help quite a bit reducing transplant shock as I have found.

And having been a chemist for over 20 years I think there's alot of misplaced and unnecessary holier-than-thou rancor on this forum regarding many scientific issues from people who are most certainly not qualified to make the remarks that they do. There seems to no longer be healthy debate but nasty accusations and little or no room for others' opinions without being openly insulting. Is this sort of thing really worth it in life over the long run? IMHO, I think not.

I remember being one of the ones who requested that Spike create this forum and perhaps one day this forum will quiet down some and become more user-friendly and less adversarial. Growing citrus, particularly outside of its natural range, is a fascinating subject and worthy of much more than this forum has degraded to.

Jenny, I would like to personally thank you for recommending Citrus forum to Spike.
There are only a select few who are, the best adjective I can describe, hostile..
Otherwise, it's a great forum..There's a lot to learn and more advise to give..Thank you, Toni

Superthrive 50-50...Myth or fact..many writes... 50% says snakeoil.... 50% says cure-al...If someone wants to spend there money on a 50-50 item..Good luck ..Theres beter and more proven products out there..Myself I fall in the snakeoil percent...Dale

a human male produces 10mg of testosterone per day so why wouldnt one drop of this prohormone, superthrive do the job on a plant. It also isnt one drop to treat a gallon it is one fourth of a teaspoon

I thought siuperthrive enhanced the life of micro organisms in the soil makein it richer as well as adding hormones. Its from 1940 and still gets amazing reviews. The so called one hit wonders and magic potions throughout the years haave all burnt out, but this stuff still survives. Even though there is new breakthroughs everyday this stuff still stands strong. So much money has been invested in research and it still continues to hold its own. This stuff must do something if not then it would have just been something and forgotten.

But in past exp this stuff will do wonders. If you dont notice it ina physical way or you cant tell you may not have anything to compare to. Compare transplants, clones, seedlings, damaged trees, heavily pruned trees, malnourished trees, slowee growing trees(not just citrus). All of this has already been done though in many ways, which is why i believe this product is a great pickup. At 10 bucks whats to lose. Just a drop a gallon. I use two for more open areas

Superthrive has NAA as an active ingredient which is a plant hormone (an auxin in this case) which I know for a fact works but there is lots of research on auxins and other plant hormones. I myself occasionally use GA3 on some of my plants which causes the stems to elongate noticeably among other things.

Anyway just wanted to chime in and say superthrive really does work. I know a lot of people out there have doubts but if you really want to see the difference try planting two potted plants and use superthrive on only one of them. I took Marine botany, plant physiology, plant morphology, and ethnobotany in college. In the lab for plant physiology we actually made our own fertilizers and used various plant hormones on pea plants to see the difference, so I can say that they do work and I tested them first-hand lol.

I use it every time I transplant something as well, and I never see the transplant shock like I used to.

i use it too. for many years. the reason i bought it for the 1st time - the label mentioned rejuving old trees. i have a ficus lyrata that was not doing so well after the first 10 years in the same pot (already too large and heavy and i just do not have any floor space to transplant it). i wanted it to branch, low on the trunk without pruning - so i did a soil drench with superthrive and it did produce several shoots on the bottom half of the trunks, where there were no leaves at all. it is still in the same pot (20years now) and i've been feeding it with ST occasionally. since then 5 years after the 1st application i moved and now it's in a better place and watered better and it's doing quite well (you can see it in pruning f.lyrata thread).
i now also add a drop of ST in water when i rehydrate my aroid corms prior to planting and also amaryllis. and when a plant gets stressed and is weak,etc.
as for my general experience - i have close to a 100 plants now - in an apartment. and most of them are doing well . at least a dozen of my largest have been with me for 20 years.

oh, and what am i doing in the citrus forum? i had a calamondin that dried up when i was on vacation, but i had a ripe fruit and so i grew 2 new trees from the seeds. they are doing well after 4 years. not that i hope that they will fruit... but hey, they aren't bad looking and i keep them outside for summer on the balcony, so who knows...one day may be i'll see a flower (i bought them for fragrance mostly). too bad i did not take a cutting in time... didn't know better, could've had flowers already.

In my experience superthrive works. Its amazing to see the growth after using it. Some nursery stores in my area have to put it behind the counter because people would steal it otherwise. Just use gloves when using it because it will make your fingers feel really weird and I get a "head change" if it contacts my skin.

The statistician in me is coming out so I must throw in my 2 cents. Simply doing a test where you have a experiment and a control is NOT a scientific study. This type of test has a 2% chance of correctly identifying a difference between the superthrive treated plant and the control plant. You need to have multiple replications to be significant.

I have never seen a true scientific study of superthrive that indicates it has any effect what-so-ever. The product has survived on purely anecdotal evidence from places like this thread.

Here's a couple of real studies that have been on the product:

http://www.sarracenia.com/pubs/cpn38-24-27.pdf
http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search/display.do?f=2007/PH/PH0608.xml;PH2006000331

They both say the same thing, no significant difference in plants due to the use of SuperThrive.

There has been relatively more research on Vitamin B1 (the primary ingredient in SuperThrive) as a root stimulant. Most of the research was begun because researchers observed increased levels of Vitamin B1 in growing root systems. External application of Vitamin B1 has not yielded any significant results.

Don't want to start a flame war. If you use SuperThrive and like the way your plants look with it by all means continue doing so if you want to. If you are looking for scientific evidence for whether SuperThrive works ... there is none. The information found in threads like these is purely anecdotal and should not be mistaken as proof that the product works or is useful.

This post was edited by cayden on Sun, Feb 24, 13 at 22:27

I was interested in superthrive as well. I asked my sister (PhD in Biology) to read the published papers about Superthrive. She said they were inconclusive at best. I noticed that their "used by the government" claims are very vague. Who uses them? What crops do they use it on? How long have they been using it? These days, companies use case studies to document their product being used "in the field" so there's more information, and superthrive doesn't seem to have that kind of information. The testimonials and "typical reports" are also very unclear, almost like press quotes used in movie trailers!

It's not terribly expensive so I might give it a try on some of my cuttings. But if anyone is relying on legitimate scientific research to justify its effectiveness, there's not a lot to go on.

It's agricultural snake oil... can we put this baby to bed?

It's one half of DIP N GROW! I guess that's snake oil too. I guess we should just ignore the active ingredient which is NAA- WHICH IS ALSO THE ACTIVE INGREDIENT IN DIP N GROW too. It amazes me that everyone doesn't know what NAA is. It is on that lovely label if you look closely, apparently I'm the only one who reads labels anymore. I'm kind of a geek though when it comes to labels I guess. It has been used for years:

Auxins, especially 1-Naphthaleneacetic acid (NAA) and Indole-3-butyric acid (IBA), are also commonly applied to stimulate root growth when taking cuttings of plants.

Here is a link that might be useful: Plant hormone Google

This is NOT a commercial site!! Maybe you are a rep for SuperThrive, or an AMWAY agent; but can we give this a rest; it is not a site to sell or promote products.

Snake oil by any name is still snake oil.

What are you talking about? A link to google?! I think you are way off base. I am not promoting any product- did you even look at the link- the link to google? I think not.

I'm pretty sure it's OK to discuss products while still maintaining a commercial-free site. Isn't that what this whole thread was in the first place? If we didn't discuss ANY products then these forums would be rather useless, no?

Well, based on the known ingredients vitamin B1 and 1-naphthalene acetic acid, it is certainly possible that it could work to stimulate root growth in cuttings. However, the advertising for it suggests much more. Here are a few choice quotes from the advertising (Thanks Google Images):

"Save plants from waiting while trying to make them"

"Science miracles in each drop"

and my favorites:

"Best product known for any purpose -say many leaders"

"From Carbon-Hydrogen-Oxygen natural crystals"
Seriously? Is this their attempt at trying to sound "sciencey"

Maybe it doesn't work, maybe it does (but I highly doubt it comes even close to matching the claims on their packaging).

I'm certainly not buying any.

Well I dont know about those crazy sounding quotes lol but like I've mentioned before, I studied botany in college. Took a whole course on just plant physiology. That 1-naphthalene acetic acid you mention happens to be an active ingredient in superyhrive and also a plant hormone. Maybe yall should stop trying to google 'superthrive results' and use a real scientific database to search for the use of that plant hormone.

We did actual studies with real plants to demonstrate the effects of plant hormones. It just bothers me when people show up here like the person that called it snake juice who have probably used it once or not at all and just try to be difficult. The stuff works people, do some real research or try it for yourself.

I know all the naysayers are going to jump all over me so I just wanted to add this little bit I literally found in 1 minute of research. The 1-NAA mentioned above is an Auxin plant hormone.

Credit for the following goes to Robert E. Cleland from his paper titled Auxin and Cell Elongation.

"One of the most dramatic and rapid hormone responses in plants is the induction by auxin of rapid cell elongation in isolated stem and coleoptile sections. The response begins within 10 minutes after the addition of auxin, results in a 5-10 fold increase in the growth rate, and persists for hours or even days (22). It is hardly surprising that this may be the most studied hormonal response in plants."

You got to get over that label- I know it turns people off but there is science behind it. It is just the usual marketing techniques that we always have to endure. And it is actually a very cheap source for NAA. I go by science and not emotion.

Aslan,
Not sure if your comments were directed toward me or not. I am only confident that Superthrive does not live up to its lofty over-the-top advertising. For this reason, I have no interest in this product. There are many other similar products out there, which do not have these absurd claims and are dramatically less expensive. Why not try some of them, you'll likely get the same results at a much reduced cost.

Here is one example:
Liquinox Start 1 quart: ~$5-10 1-NAA 0.04%, B1 0.1%
Superthrive 1 quart: $50 or more 1-NAA 0.048%, B1 0.09%

Additional less expensive options: Dyna Gro KLN, Hormex, Vita Grow etc...

Honestly I didn't pay attention to who exactly said what but you are totally right. My only complaint is when people just hop on and flat out say it doesn't work because it does work. They just may not have gotten the magic result people seem to assume will happen. It works, and for me it works well, but it's by no means a miracle in a bottle or an excuse for poorer plant care in conjunction with super thrive. I really do understand what you are saying though with the advertising, I just never really payed attention to it until you mentioned it because I just see it as their marketing tactics. Although, maybe you would get those results if you mixed a whole bottle in a gallon of water! (kidding btw)

Actually the Liquinox really seems to be the better product with additional ingredients. The only problem for me would be having to mail order it at increased cost, while I can get the ST locally. The main thing is that ST and Liquinox both have NAA which is an effective and long used aid to root growth.

The ST people are not doing themselves any favors by sounding like idiots on the label.
The best product for any purpose .... will it help me win the lottery?