great stuff Josh. I hardly screened my 5.1.1. other than taking out giant pieces in my mix this past spring. The trees are doing great but I know Im going to have to re-due it this next spring. This gives me some great ideas on cheap ways to do it. Thanks!!

My pleasure!

For the 5-1-1, I just remove the particles over 3/8 of an inch, too.
I use the bark dust in place of the Peat Moss.

Josh

Dang, I wish I could see the pictures here Josh..

I will see them when I get home though and thank you for helping us! As the say. Pictures ARE worth a thousand words..Mucho Gracious! Fantastic illustrations as I can read, and what an excellent mix for our plants!

Mike:-)

I find screening to go much smoother with some good music ;)

Great pics and thread Josh!

I just made some last night for my maters..;)

JoJo

Thanks!
Mike, I hope you were able to view the pics at home!

JoJo, what sort of music would you recommend to drown out the leaf-blowers in my neighborhood? ;)
I like to blast a bit of metal from time to time...the heavier the better! I have a fondness
for Scandinavian and Russian Folk Metal especially...

Josh

I did...What a GREAT idea man!

Fantastic idea..Goes to show what anyone can come up with when they really want something good for their plants!

It would be nice if we had an EB stone around here, then I could get that red pumice and all that bark..Lucky you!

Have a great day........All of you!

Mike...;-)

Hello all,
Tahoe was awesome. Great weather, fun mountain biking,good food,great company,and some fun on the lake in a boat and stand up paddle boards. Got home thurs night. The trees look good. The meyer that had the rotten roots in the huge pot of miss mixed 5.1.1. even has some leaf sprouts in about 4 places. Gave them all another bath of fish emulsion. It seems to be working on the fuller rose beatles that were on my inground lisbon and eureka. I did say were because since using fe I haven't found any and they can sure eat. Was thinking of you, Josh, as we rolled through Auburn. I said to my wife we are stopping here to check out a blood orange tree and then I told her I was just kidding.

So, about the screening, I think I can get a flat. I am still not sure what you use in the mixes. Both the 5.1.1. and the gritty1.1.1. Do you use the small pieces that fall through or the ones left on top?

I want to make a batch of gritty 1.1.1. for my satsuma as it has the least amount of soil in its stock nursery pot and see how it does. Do I use the same screen for that mix too? I am going to try and find the granite and turface today. I hope to get it right this time around.
Dave

Ah, lovely Auburn, tucked in the foothills....the gateway to the High Sierras!
Truly, you'd have to take Hwy 49 north for nearly half an hour before hitting
my humble abode. My elevation is a little higher, and my winters a little colder,
than Auburn.

Gritty =
I screen my bark, perlite, and lava rock to a size of 1/8 - 1/4 inch (a few pieces of
bark will always be a bit larger, say 3/8, but most fall within this range).
Then I flush and rinse all the dust from the bark and the rocks. No mix is perfect,
but I try to control the particle sizes as much as possible.

5-1-1 =
I screen the bark to keep the super-large pieces out. But I retain all the bark dust (fines).
I still completely rinse the perlite and lava rock.

*Tapla (Al) recommends aged bark for the 5-1-1. I use the same bark for both mixes.
The only difference is that the bark dust is included in the 5-1-1.

Josh

So Josh,
Your gritty is 1pt bark, 1pt pelite,1pt lava? And is lava the same as pumice?
Dave

Hello Josh,
Thanks for the idea. I think I will have to check out a few nurseries and see if they have any of those screened flats.

Correct me if I am wrong..But pumice is the lava or the same thing, except some are red, which I like more..

The gritty mix is equal parts of each...
Don't forget the "gypsum" though...;-)

Dave, WELCOME BACK...It didn't take too long for you to post did it.? lolol
I told you your trees would grow, without you..

Josh, the foot hills are beautiful and your winters are warmer than mine still..:-). I wouldn't mind the fog, if it meant being able to leaves a lot of my plants outdoors all winter..

Hi Andrew, good to see you again too..

Mike..;-)

Good evening!

Mike, you're not wrong...it's pretty much the same stuff, with subtle differences in texture.

I took a few pics of the types of "grit" that I employ in my mixes. A picture's worth a thousand words....

1. This is what I call Red Pumice -
it is often called Scoria, volcanic rock, lava rock, et cetera. It's my favorite.

{{gwi:612772}}

2. Grey Pumice mixed with Red Pumice -
Also called Scoria, et cetera. I find this grey product to be less porous than the red.
Therefore, it is good for structure and durability, but not good for water retention.

{{gwi:612773}}


3. Red Pumice, Grey Pumice, White Pumice, and Quartzite -
the White Pumice is very foamy, and the lightest of the three products. It's almost like Perlite.

{{gwi:612774}}


4. Last but not least, this is Turface MVP -
it is a high-fired clay product, very durable, with better water retention than the Pumices.
I haven't had Turface very long, but I'll be using it more and more in my future mixes.

{{gwi:591372}}


Josh

Sorry guys,
Still confused. Those rocks (lava,pumice)look larger than 1/4". I have a roll of wire mesh/screen and the square holes are 1/4" wich looks small to me but do I use only what falls through this in the 5.1.1. and the gritty? Also, Al says turface holds more water than granite and it seems like the bark really holds water so maybe should I use a bit less turface and a bit more on the granite here in my climate that generally has a bit more fog in the mornings?
thanks again and again and again,
Dave

Sorry to confuse you.

Those first pics are showing the Pumice used as top-dressing for my succulents.
I wasn't trying to demonstrate particle size, but rather show the ingredients themselves.

Yes, use what falls through the 1/4 inch mesh.
For the Gritty, you'll want to screen out anything smaller than 1/16 of an inch, too.

Turface does hold more water than granite, pumice, or bark.

I think it would be a good idea to decrease the water-holding capacity for your area.

Larger particles will make for a faster-draining mix, so don't worry about larger inclusion.

Josh

I hope this article doesn't confuse you more, but only get some points from a different perspective..The article is linked at the bottom...:-)

Dave,

Also, your sizes should be between 1/8 and 1/16 for the perfect mix....A little less or more, that is ok...A bit bigger will only DECREASE the water retention, as in the pieces of lave you see Josh using, and a bit smaller will INCREASE it, which is why he has decided to start using turface, that is all.

Now if you are going to make the 5.1. mix, personally at times I strain nothing from the bark and I skip the peat all together if there is a lot of fine dust and partcles that looks like peat...
Sometimes I starin both the big particles out, and the dusty ones out, then adhere to the 5.1 principle.
If the bark sizes are too big, You could strain them out through your 1/4 inch screen, and throw out what is left on top, since those pieces might be too big, keep what you strained out.

If you relly want to get right on, then keep what you strained out, then use a bug screen, once the smaller bark is dry, then strain out the dust or tiny particles. All you will have behind is about the perfect size clean bark, then you can add peat..

I hope I made it as easy as possible for you..;-)

No two batches of the gritty mix and the 5.1.1 mix are made exactly the same as the other. But most of ours are as pretty darn close too Al's as possible. I myself have compared mine next to a sample I recieved from him, and compared the pictures on this forum.

Make yourself a batch, and compare what you have to the pictures illustrated, then go from there..Also. you will know if you made yours right once you water and see how your mix dries out and drains..

For me, it was trial and error until I actually REALLY got it and the mix made just right...It was confusing at first. But once I saw it work for myself and my plants respond, I knew I finally had it..

You have a lot more help from many here than I did, and that is a big plus for you..

Hope this helped..

*If you have access to get turface, I would do exactly by the book to start. 1 part screened turface, 1 part screened "uncomposted bark", and 1 part crushed granite.

* If you ahve access to the pine bark, uncomposted which me and Josh use, or composted, peat, and perlite, then make 5 parts bark, one part peat, and one part perlite.
Some screen their bark for this too, and others do not.

Al is the one that should tell you EXACTLY how he makes his 5.1.1 mix, since many of us make a variation of it, or try to replicate what he makes..

*To get the most benefit from the soil, you need to have the ingredients reasonably uniform, equal in size, and around 1/8" for the gritty.

I will look up more info for you later and give you the links..Josh will be here too and if I I need a correction, he will help us..So will Al..

Good luck my friend..

Mike

Mike

Here is a link that might be useful: gritty and soilless mix particle size..

{{gwi:612775}}

{{gwi:612776}}

{{gwi:612778}}

{{gwi:612780}}

Ok guys,
I have enclosed pics of the stuff. The hardes to find was gypsum. I could not find a samll bag and this has something in it. I hope it will work. The wire mesh pieces are just a sample of what I can make a framed screen with. Does the pot that the satsuma is sitting in look like a good size to repot to? The tree in the white pot is one of my dad's friend's just down the road from me in regular potting soil. Go figure. I think I will just do the satsuma for now and leave the meyer and lime in their original pots and mixes as they are doing so good right now. The lime has a lot of new growth and the meyer has some buds and a fruit. I think the FP and FE have a lot to so with their health. I hope they survive the winter if I decide to wait until next spring on them. I guess the next step is to start screening. Let me know what you think especially on the gypsum. I can return it and get something else. Josh I found a good source for the tiny red lava rock if I decide to use it for a mix in the future.
thanks for all the help,
Dave

Dave, I e-mailed you..

Need your help..k

Thank you

Mike

Dave, I e-mailed you..

Need your help..k

Thank you

Mike

O my God, what the heck is wrong with this forum? Three times it said my message was rejected, and they still posted!

screening granite sucks. definately more work for the gritty mix but more shelf life I hear. Is my gypsum ok? What to do with the larger granite rocks? Hopefully turface goes faster
Dave

Dave..I am getting the feeling you are making a big thing out of the granite. Does it look like the one I posted?

It doesn't have to be screened..Just rinsed off..Can you post a picture of the granite up close? You are too funny..lol

Mike

Oh yes..That gypsum is fine!

Use 1 tablespoon per gallon....

Mike

When screening the bark it looks totally different than before. Mush smaller pieces now using the 1/4" mesh. I haven't done the turface yet. It looks much smaller to begin with than the granite. The only granite I could get is not really a grit as it comes. It has larger rocks mixed in about the size of the larger bark pieces. I used the 1/4" mesh for both the bark and the granite. The bark is not as nugget looking after screening. I guess that is correct. At this rate it is gonna take a while to have enough of the 3 ingredients to fill the 7-10 gallon container. I can see why my first 5.1.1. mix stayed wet. The bark dust that I left in with peat was like double peat. This is overwhelming. I have enough gypsum for everyone.
Dave

Hey, Dave! Good job!

Yes, you've discovered that bark dust performs just as well as peat to retain moisture!
This is why I don't use any peat at all...the bark dust provides more than enough binding material.

The gritty mix is more time consuming up front, but it is definitely longer lasting, too.

Josh

We will see Josh,
I am back to work and only got some bark and granite done. Still have to do much more and the turface too but I am doing a bike ride in Napa today(that is why I am up so dam early) then it is back to work and basically 2 days off to screen so who knows when I will be able to pot. It beats looking for work instead of screening:)
Dave