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unclemolewacker

Cocktail Grapefuit location

I will plant a cocktail grapefruit (semi-dwarf) tree in Napa and have a choice the following locations. It has been hitting 19F for a couple of nights the last couple of years in mid January so freeze tolerance is a concern since it is part Pummelo. I do not expect the fruit to survive the 19F so it needs to be ripe by then. Which location do you feel is best?
Locations:
a) full sun, will be afternoon shade if neighbor does not trim coastal oak (ever green) in 5 years or so. This location is fully exposed to cold wind and freeze, but gets the first rays of morning sun.
b) protected from wind, close to western stucco wall but only 4-6 hours direct sun. Proximity to home elevates the temperature a few degrees, also it is easier protect it during a freeze.
c) southern exposure, 8 ft away from fence and 16 away from stucco wall. this location's proximity to home also offers some potential for elevated temperature. But additional protection would be difficult.
d) southern exposure, full sun except for the last hour of sunlight. 11 ft. from house, poor potential for protection, but stucco wall and concrete walkway may offer some heat.

Thank you, George K

Picture added: Legend of citrus plan/existing:
1 = Page Mandarin, SD
2 = Eustis Limequat Std.
3 = Owari Satsuma, SD
4 = Nippon Orangequat, SD
5 = Nippon Orangequat, SD
6 = Okitsu Wase Satsuma, SD
7 = Okitsu Wase Satsuma, SD
8 = Moro B.O., Dwarf
9 = Lisbon Lemon, SD
10 = Oro Blanco, Std.
11 = Bearss Lime, SD
12 = Meyer, Std.
13 = Fukumoto Navel, Std.
14 = V.Pink Lemon, Std.
15 = Meyer, Dwarf
16 = Tavares Limequat (to be moved here)
17 = Trovita Std.
18 = Lisbon Lemon, SD
19 = Bearss Lime, SD

This post was edited by Becauseican on Mon, Aug 5, 13 at 14:47

Comments (13)

  • poncirusguy6b452xx
    10 years ago

    here is a list of when all citrus ripen. the citrus is in yellow. just look at each months chart and choose what fits in your month of interest.

    Here is a link that might be useful: http://redwoodbarn.com/ripeningchartmacro.htm

  • poncirusguy6b452xx
    10 years ago

    Now that you got the picture, I believe that grapefruit is so large that it takes close to or more than a year to form. Sunlight and heat are very important to GF. build a green house where they get the most sunshine.
    try that. There are people who grow citrus in canada in a minimally heated greenhouse. If you do a search on citrus tree in, canada you will find it after a little searching.

    There is a reason your screen name is Becauseican. now snap to it

    Best of luck to you

  • Mountain-Man
    10 years ago

    My vote would be for B).

    My grapefruits like to be shaded and watered just a little bit more than my oranges which tend to do better in full sun and a bit less water. But that is just my experience. I'm in Orange County Calif.

  • poncirusguy6b452xx
    10 years ago

    George

    Any chance you could get an aerial shot of the area that would include 100 feet beyond property lines to give us a better understanding of your dilemma. Google earth would be a good place to start. Make sure your privacy is protected before posting

  • meyermike_1micha
    10 years ago

    Mine for B too.

    MIke

  • hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
    10 years ago

    First off, the Cocktail is not a grapefruit, but is a Siamese Sweet pummelo/Frua mandarin cross. Heat is not so much a necessity for sweetness, as helps grapefruits and grapefruit hybrids. This is a naturally sweet cultivar. Grapefruits will benefit from as much sun and heat as you can provide. It does make a difference in sweetness of the fruit. We tend to grow Rio Red grapefruits in our coastal areas (including Orange County), as it doesn't need as many heat units to sweeten up. So, you might think it's benefiting from shade. It isn't. Rio's just sweeten up with less heat units :-) I would pick the spot that has the most sun, and warmest location. If wind is not an issue for you, I wouldn't worry so much about avoiding wind. If you have wind issues, then you'll need to take that into serious consideration, as wind is really the enemy of citrus. B or C sound like your best options overall.

    Patty S.

  • Mountain-Man
    10 years ago

    Patty the reason I moved my dwarf grapefruits into a little more shade is the tops of the canopy were getting sunburned. Are you saying that is normal and I should have just let it go? Isn't that bad for the little guys? Now they are not burned any longer and are all a nice shade of green. I moved my Pumelo, Rio Red, Oro Blanco, and Melogold.

  • poncirusguy6b452xx
    10 years ago

    Thanks Patti.
    I thought cocktail ment multiple grapefruit variety on on rootstock.

    Steve

  • uncle molewacker z9b Danville CA (E.SF Bay)
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    thank you all for your input! no greenhouse in my immediate future poncirusguy, but i like the thinking. (I already pay a hefty weather tax so i never considered budgeting a greenhouse)!

    It is indeed the cocktail-hybrid and so i was hoping that the mandarin influence would help get the fruit to sweeten without the need for high / all day sun & heat. (my experience explained in BTW below)

    I love the idea of posting an aerial photo. I will work on that and if i can get something of value, will get it loaded.

    Today's thinking: i am strongly favoring "b".
    location "a": a transplanted Caffin-sd.
    c: a future Santa Teresa Lemon
    d: CaraCara on Carrizo

    Oh, and BTW: I love the ripeness chart link. However, i found that my experience does not match the entry for Trovitas in there. When i had three identical Trovitas in a row, each had fruit ripen at different times. The one with the most sun / hottest location produced great fruit by mid December, the others 8 & 16 ft. away, were progressively shaded more from late day sun and fruit ripened in January.

    I will work on the photo(s) and post back soon - thank you again!
    George K.

  • poncirusguy6b452xx
    10 years ago

    I juat noticed you are in zone 9 B.

    Look through the link below thoroughly. I has the cheap answer to your dilemma. 19 F comes rarely and is short lived.

    Look over Blinkblogger's materials. towards the bottom of that thread

    Steve

    Here is a link that might be useful: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/citrus/msg0122005810811.html

  • uncle molewacker z9b Danville CA (E.SF Bay)
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I just uploaded a pic to the initial post. The aerial image is about a year old; things have been cut down / trimmed back over the past year.

    Yep, this is zone 9b, but oh so many micro climates here in this area! On still nights the air can sit in this valley and get me a very fast drop into the teens. Also, the temperature swing during the cooler months is very large (especially if dry) too. i.e. 50F+ swing is not uncommon.

    The 19F was the low for January 2013 as well as 2012. Both of those periods had a high during the day of about 45-48F and it was 32F by 9 or 10 pm. The sun warms things quickly and it is not unusual for thaw by 8 or 9 am. Heat sinking and thermal mass from the house and rocks spread about helps the delicate citrus.

    The thicker skinned fruit can survive - but its touch and go. the risk is evident and so i want to get most everything off the trees if i can by the first week in January. I can't change the weather, so i have locate the citrus as intelligently as possible.

    I will check out the links, thank you yet again!
    George K.

  • Mountain-Man
    10 years ago

    Would an outdoor propane heater be useful during questionable cold nights for you?

    I have two setups for myself but only because I get snow.

  • uncle molewacker z9b Danville CA (E.SF Bay)
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I believe that it would, yes. But, if i am away that evening the rest of the household may or may not be able to get things "fired up". :-(

    I was thinking of something i could control remotely. Old Christmas lights and PVC supported structure (like a small greenhouse) could work.

    Having sad that, this protection effort would primarily be to protect the fruit. All the citrus got through the last couple of winters rather well. The young fall flush on the limes and lemons was destroyed. The Satsumas are in the coldest part of the yard and they were not damaged at all.