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tim45z10

fake grass under navel orange

tim45z10
10 years ago

Is it ok for the tree? I have a semiburied soaker hose for watering.

Comments (4)

  • hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would say probably not ideal. A photo would help. I would be inclined to cut away the artificial turf leaving a nice wide well. Soil needs to have exposure to sun and air in order to develop a proper soil biosphere. I would make it look nice by edging the well, and then mulching, just keeping the mulch away from the trunk. Err on the size of larger versus smaller for the well, as your feeder roots will reside at the edge of the tree canopy and some beyond. That just doesn't seem healthy for a tree to have its feeder roots under artificial turf.

    Patty S.

  • johnorange
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There seems to be some alternate views on how to maintain the soil around citrus trees. Patty, you seem to have a good bit of experience so I'm interested in your comments (as well as any others of course) in response to a well-respected organic gardening expert in the Dallas Texas area, Howard Garrett (Dirt Doctor). You can find lots of information from him on the web. His overall goal is to promote biological activity in the soil and use products that don't harm beneficial bacteria, fungi, nematodes, bugs, etc. that help control the bad actors and help provide a steady source of nutrients to the soil. He recommends to not remove the grass from around citrus trees, although possibly he would recommend keeping the trunk clear. He is always getting on folks for planting their trees too deep so I know he deals with a lot of the same root and trunk disease problems folks on gardenweb discuss. Do you think there are different methods we should recommend for different soil and moisture characteristics, maybe different expectations for growth rate and production or are there two equally valid ways to handle citrus root zones in any climate? I personally have been allowing grass to grow right up to my trees and I have had some disease issues. I have also felt I was cutting the biological activity in my soil short by removing all the grass and allowing it to get hot and dry during my 90+ degree days here in August/September. I am leaning toward some kind of happy medium but I'm not sure what that is. What is your take?

  • hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, there is always a difference from one area to another, John, there is no denying this. In general, grass, which demands HUGE amounts of nitrogen (and water) will always be the first to grab nitrogen from the soil (and your fertilizer), thus not leaving much for your citrus tree. Mature trees can usually manage, due to their extensive feeder root systems, but a young tree is going to struggle in having to compete for both nutrients and nitrogen with grass. No matter where you live. Plus, lawn usually means lawn sprinklers, and this is also something citrus just don't tolerate universally - constantly wet trunks. So, I would respectfully disagree with him on this.

    I also believe you should not amend your hole you dig, either. This is current thinking for all trees. Instead, I agree with Howard Garrett in supporting your soils by applying compost and composted manure, as well as trying to use organic or semi-organic products if possible, all to help support and develop the soil microbes. I think there are some universal "rules" for citrus, and then of course, you'll have to modify things based on where you live, what soils you have, amount of rain, sun, temperatures, wind, etc. That's pretty standard with any gardening recommendations :-)

    Universally, citrus and grass are not a good combo. This is not my philosophy, but that of much more learned folks than I, and I have certainly seen this borne out with young citrus. Now, that being said, I have a neighbor that has about an 8 year old citrus tree sitting in his lawn. It's in the corner, doesn't really get hit by sprinklers, BUT, the tree is very small. No doubt having to struggle to compete for nutrients with the grass. But, it's alive, it's bearing fruit, and well, it's working for my neighbor.

    I mulch my trees. Now, someone in a heavy rain area would probably not need to do that (unless they're trying to keep weeds down). Interestingly, the "mulch" philosophy is changing here in California, with regard to citrus. If you go to UC Riverside Citrus Variety Collection, there is no grass, no mulch under their trees. I, however, have to watch my water bill (not that UCR doesn't), and for me, mulching under my trees accomplishes several great things - it adds organic materials in my very thin DG soils, it keeps weeds down, and it also helps to retain moisture, so I don't have to water as much. It works well for me, and in some experiments here in the state of California, there are very favorable returns for mulching under citrus. So, I would suggest mulching under your trees, topping with some compost once a year, and some composted manure, and see how that works for you. Texas can get awfully hot and dry during the summers, and I know many parts of Texas have been under severe drought, so I would think anything to help retain moisture under your trees would be a good thing. Just want to make sure if you're on clay, you've planted on a mound system, and if it's really bad, a french drain system is not a bad idea.

    Patty S.

  • johnorange
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the nice in-depth discussion Patty. I'm fortunate in my area that St. Augustine seems to grow anywhere we mow down the weeds and create a yeard. St. Augustine is relatively easy to pull by hand and quite easy to kill with roundup...which I personally try not to use around my trees but apparently can be used. When you add compost or mulch, does this not result in a gradual raising of the soil around your trees? Do you just sacrifice a few feeder roots and scrape off some topsoil buildup now and then to keep the graft line above ground? Some of my trees are doing great and don't require much attention now but I have a few that I'm working with that aren't producing or growing much that I want to help along with different management. I think I will fertilize more regularly and increase attention to grass removal. I have seen some notes about adding some epsom salts so I may try that. I actually got a bag for sending off a soil sample one time but never got around to taking the samples. I'm also remodeling my house, building an outdoor shower, and trying to go fishing now and then. I need a stunt double to keep my hobbies current.