Citrus Greening = chop it down. "A touch of citrus greening". That is almost laughable. That's like being "a little bit pregnant." Either your tree has it, or it does not. It is eventually fatal (life span less than 5 years from the exhibition of symptoms), your tree is an innoculant for the vector (Asian Citrus Psyllid) and will simply continue to spread the disease to other unaffected citrus trees. It is the sad, sad legacy of someone bringing in something to the US that was not inspected, and now the state of Florida, Texas, S. Carolina, Louisiana, and Georgia are paying the (billion dollar) price. All other citrus belt states are waiting, and holding their breath until it is eventually discovered in those states. So, I would get rid of it, and dispose of the tree in the appropriate manner, per your ag agent. Try growing figs, pomegranates, mangos, papayas, guavas, and avocados, instead? And, the damage to your fruit looks more to be due to birds, than bugs to me.

Patty S.

This post was edited by hoosierquilt on Thu, Oct 17, 13 at 19:30

Thanks for your thoughts Patty (and amusing analogy). Yes, I read that Citrus Greening is fatal. I had never considered birds damaging the fruit since the birds gather mostly in the Southern Cedar close by. I have observed wasps flying around it though (larger - not the parasitic kind); also spiders are attracted to it. If the "creeping crud" can be positively ID'd and cured, I might consider putting some effort into prolonging the tree's life, but as is, I am afraid to eat the fruit should it be either a bacteria or parasite.

Citrus Greening has nearly wiped out Florida's commercial citrus industry. It is projected that 100% of Florida's citrus trees will be infected with HLB within the next 5 to 7 years. It's just horrid. I wouldn't worry about eating the fruit, very unlikely you would ingest a parasite or some sort of harmful bacteria. This looks like mechanical damage to me, and birds can sustain the kind of damage you're showing in your photos. Especially if you have large flocks (like Cedar Waxwings).

Patty S.

"told, "...a touch of Citrus Greening... " "

WTF! They are making diagnosis from photographs now?! Unless the area is infested I am surprised they didn't come out and inspect by someone REALLY experienced in HLB field diagnosis; which as far as I know is the only way outside of a lab to diagnose HLB.

"most obvious problem is Citrus Leafminer... "

Definitely something very small eating leave surface and fruit (skin)---I was thinking scab.

http://indian.ifas.ufl.edu/4H/Club_FILES_and_PAGES/Diagnosing-Dooryard-Citrus-problems.pdf

http://lake.ifas.ufl.edu/agriculture/citrus/documents/SCExpo.pdf

Here is a link that might be useful: FL Dx Citrus paper

This post was edited by Fascist_Nation on Fri, Oct 18, 13 at 18:14

I'm with Patty on this one; I would have said birds. Small birds take the oil from green limes to put on their feathers as it is a natural repellent for mites. Whether or not you may have greening (HLB), that is most certainly not the cause of the damage to the fruit.

@Patty @Johnmerr Logically, it's hard to accept the bird conspiracy theory... after re-inspection, some of the fruit is hanging in mid air without a "perch" available for birds.

@Fascist_Nation Appreciate the links; they motivated me to re-inspect at closer views and to take more pics which might prove to ID the culprit(s). Was looking for caterpillars, but if the last two are bird poop, please forgive me. Scab is supposedly caused by a fungus, but maybe there are several things the tree is afflicted with???

Also apologize for the amount of pics, but thought they could be relevant. Didn't notice it with naked eye, but the camera caught a transparent critter in Pic 7 at around 9 o'clock. Possibly trained and educated eyes will solve the mystery.

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Hi Outdoor_Lady, I agree with Johnmerr and Patty, the fruit damage looks very much like bird damage. They don't need a separate perch. Boat-tailed grackles are the culprits for my fruit trees and they damage the top side of the fruit. Unless the skin begins weeping and spoiling, the fruit inside is usually just fine. (In a hushed voice) the bottom two photos in your last post look like bird droppings :>)

I have no experience with citrus greening so I can't help you there except to recommend getting an Ag agent who knows what they are doing to inspect your tree if there is any real evidence of the disease.

If I saw that on my trees, I would go with spiders, white files and birds (and yes that looks like bird poop to me too)

Okay, that "bird poop" looks like Orange Dogs to me, which is odd, because they usually prefer to eat the tender leaves of the tree. Orange Dogs are the Giant Swallowtail caterpillar, and yes, they look like poop. Part of their natural defense mechanisms. I would pull them off the fruit if you're going to keep the tree. You'll know if you try to remove the poop, and it moves :-) If it's poop, then the damage is birds, and yes, they can very easily hang on the branch the fruit is on, and peck away. Birds are quite acrobatic.

But, the larger issue is the fact that I do believe what you're seeing is Citrus Greening (HLB, Huanglongbing). If you want to know for sure before you chop it down, have your tree tested. There is no sense in keeping an infected tree, as your tree will just continue to spread the disease to other non-affected citrus trees in your area. And, the white bugs look perhaps like wooly aphids, but Rhizo would be our resident bug expert. Again, kind of moot, if your tree is infected with HLB. It would be time to take the tree out entirely as it is too late to treat the tree, it is going to die, and it will continue to be a source of infection for other non-infected trees.

Patty S.

That's a Greened tree. Go-ahead and remove it because it's a goner either way and you might as well get stated on something else. You're extension agent didn't flip out about it because just about every tree down there that's out of doors is either infected or will be in the very near future. From their perspective, every citrus tree is already greened. There are 1000's and 1000's of acres of abandoned and active groves that are 100% infected that have not and will not be pushed. The industry just re-sets when a tree or block of trees becomes unproductive and then rushes to get a yield before they have to reset again.

Best,

Skinn30a

@Patty, Johnmerr, johnorange: Ok, I've never seen Cedar Waxwings, but we have tons of Boat-tailed Grackles here. And I stand corrected; wasn't aware that not all birds need a perch. Good to know it's still edible.

@johnorange, Kippy-the-Hippy, Patty: I poked the poop (from the outside of the plastic bag the lime is in); it did not move. If it looks like poop, and sits like poop, it must be poop! (which ties in with the bird conspiracy)

@johnorange, Patty: Think I will see what's involved to get an Ag agent out to physically look at it and/or test it to rule out that it's not being over watered by rain/rotor sprinklers. If the tree stays, then I'll worry about the little critters at that time. Otherwise, I agree, it's a moot point. I would never intentionally have others risk any kind of infection from my tree.

Many thanks to all who responded... the weeds are paging me now.

Jeri

A touch of citrus greening". That is almost laughable. That's like being "a little bit pregnant

Correction

It's like being hit lightly by a high speed freight train.

Steve

Jeri,
Hope you don't have citrus greening...I don't know how to keep your grackles off your fruit but at least there IS probably a solution for that besides having to cut down your trees. I had bad grackle damage last year and a bumper crop of fruit too. This year, very little bird damage and a smaller fruit crop. I tried bird netting last year but it got tangled up in the thorns on my trees and also wasn't practical for tall trees. Pie pans and scare crows also weren't effective. A shotgun is very effective but only while you are standing out there with it :>) I have heard you can hang old CD's in your trees. I haven't tried it so no experience to pass on.

Thanks johnorange, I also hope it's not Greening. Those birds are obviously smart and selective! If I can save it, I will just have to invite all the feral cats in the neighborhood over for a feast of Grackles and all the parasitic wasps for a feast of Citrus Leafminers. The CDs sound like a viable idea but I have a feeling I am beating a dead horse.

go to home depot or similar and get bird netting. It is 1/10 th the cost of ordering it from garden catalogue stores

The fruit damage shown in the pics has nothing to do with greening. It's the mottling on the leaves in the pictures that gives it away.

Do you think that I have any greening risk/worry up hear in cincinnati.

Thanks steve

poncirusguy,

None. You grow from seed. HLB is not transferred by seed. If you grafted there could be a possibility if you sourced your scion material from an area where greening is present. The vector HLB cannot survive in Ohio.

Best,

Skinn30a

I will say that this is the 1st greened tree that I've seen on the forum. For those of you that are curious about what it looks like, this is it. Again, the dead giveaway is the mottling on the leaves. This mottling is different from that resulting from a nutrient deficiency in that HLB induced mottling is asymmetrically displayed on the leaf blade. A tree that was suffering from a nutrient deficiency would produce leaves that would have the same pattern on either side of the leaf's axis - each side of the axis would be a mirror or book-end of the other. In the pics above, you can clearly see that the mottle is asymmetrical and that it crosses the leaf's lateral veins. See pics for detail:

Nutrient deficiency:

HLB:

HLB:

@skinn30a
Wow, the first greened tree on the forum - lucky me! Your last post certainly affirmed everything I've read about nutrient deficiencies, as well as, what the Ag agent advised me about over watering symptoms. After looking at your pics and comparing mine, I don't think it's even necessary to have an inspection done. Before I cut this down (being it's a tad more than a "touch of Greening"), thought I'd go back and take samples of different areas of the tree that are in various stages of affliction and share what will be my final set of pics. Thanks again to all.

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Clearly HLB as I mentioned at the top of this thread, and no, you're not our first forum member with HLB, Outdoor Lady. Sadly, much of Florida is facing this. I am staying hopeful for a cure, as there is much monies being pumped into research, as our entire USA citrus industry is at stake. Stay tuned to the forum, as well as the Save Our Citrus national web site. It is just so devastating for all of us citrus hobbyists.

Patty S.