I strongly suggest re potting your tree in a faster draining soil mix that will offer better drainage and aeration to the root system.
A good soil mix is one that when watered, the water drains almost as fast as it's being poured in. You must also have a container that allows this.
Simple put. You tree is slowly dying from to much water and lack of O2 or aeration to the root system. A common problem for container citrus growers. Regards

Ok...I will be the first to bite..

ROOT IMPAIRMENT can be a number one cuase to your problem.

I can not see the pics here at work....But from your description and from knowing it could be a deficiency, lets start with the soil and your watering habits

I too live in the North East, and you can do well with these citrus....

It likes a well draining, open airy and gritty soiless mix..Unless you know how to master growing in the kind of soil mix you have described, it can be due to overwatering and over drying out of that soil. I have NEVER had success in that stuff in our area, and I would never use the MG cactus stuff..It stays wet far too long up here for those type of plants..Root rot will stop your plant from taking up any nutrients, no matter how much you have in the soil.
So will extremely hot temps, or too cold...I would change it asap, then while you are in the process of this, examine the roots for any signs of rot.

I would start there because, any kind of nutritional problems is almost always traced back to root impairment due to poor watering habits or a poor soiless mix.

Trying to figure out what the root cause is, not what the problem is, I would prefer to know if the roots are in good shape then go from there..

Why over fertilize a plant with a certain fertilizer, if the roots are not going to assimulate it anyway, due to poor root function..

Becareful, if you start letting others tell you to do based on just these pics, you are most likely going to cause further the decline to your plant.

You could blindly try more iron, or Mg or a different growing area, but if you want to know immediately what might be causing your plant to suffer, it only takes a few moments to diagnose a problem starting at the roots...;-)

If the roots are fine, then you might want to take a look at your fertilizer regimend and what you use...That's next..

After that, I cn't help. since everyone of my citrus have done well except for the "lemon meyer" up here for me..Although, the ones I have now are doing much better than ever before...Could be due to proper temps...That is also next after next..lol

Maybe you should of taken a pic of the roots and post that with the rest...

Hope this is of some help..:-)

At the time the photos was taken I see no sign of Magnesium or Iron deficiency or viruses.
This tree has leaf drop and is failing fast due to the container soil mix being used.
This tree needs a faster soil mix soon, or Phytophthora will set in.
I suggest the owner of this tree research soil mixes for container citrus soils or mixes used by members of this site. Regards

I am 100% on plant54 side!

Take care of your soiless mix first, and check the roots.

Then follow curly girls excellent advice if roots look fine..

You like going to Logees too!!!! I go veery other month, for fresh air and a trip to thre tropics...lol

I am going there this weekend...

Mike..:-)

Hi everyone, thank you all so much for all of your advice! I need to head to bed at the moment, but will make sure to come back tomorrow to give everything a second read-through.

Unfortunately I'm worried that my plant is not much longer for this world. I don't have a car and know nothing about soil mixes, so it may be a little while before I can repot it. It just lost three more leaves today and is beginning to look a bit naked:

I'm amazed that so much can go wrong when I bought soil specifically designed for citrus! I took a photo of the roots as per MeyerMike's suggestion:

I bought a rapitest moisture meter to help me avoid overwatering, so the soil isn't normally that moist. I've lost some basil and a Logee's vanilla to root rot, so I really didn't want it to happen again (though especially for the basil, I wonder if it might have come that way). I just watered it to help me get the root ball out of the pot.

I'm a big fan of Logee's. My parents are big plant people, and they recommended it as a place to get unique plants. (I'll attach a link to my parents' gardens... they are really quite unique.) I've never actually been to Logee's, since I don't live close by and am a car-less city dweller. I'm also quite new to the whole plant thing.

I'll start reading up on soil mixtures tomorrow. I don't know my perlite from spaghum at this point, so it will be a while before I get caught up.

Thanks again...

Here is a link that might be useful: My parents' gardens

Don't give up on it that fast....Please

The branches are still green and the roots still look very healthy..

It either does not like the soil it is in and is rebelling, or the root temps are not stable enough to properly free up the nutrients in the soil, if you have the right kind in there..

What fertilizetr are you using? How much sun exactly does it get? DO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A STORE TO BUY PERLITE and any type of wooden stick, such as a wooden dowel?
And please. Do not water it if it is still moist.

Just because it is dropping leaves, not not mean it is dying because the roots look ok....It is going through some sort of shock since it did well all summer. Don't be fooled into thinking it needs more fertilizer until it is stable to appreciate it..

First thing first...It is typical of "lemon meyer" to rebel, at any change in anything..lol..
But you can make it happy, starting with it's feet..

Mike

By the way...

Your parents plants are amazing...Wow..Thanks for sharing. I truly enjoyed looking at them..

Don't give up....I get alot of citrus from Logees, and come to think of it, I had a couple of ponderosa lemon do the same exact thing on me, even during the greatest of weather, the summer, just a few weeks after buying them.

I called them on it, and they said my plants were going though an ajustment period, not just due to the weather changes from a stable enviroment, but a change in fertilizer too..

They look fantastic now..:-)

I won't even grow my plants in the soil they provide that they grow all their plants in, which is better than MG..If you want to know what people think of that MG cactus soil you bought, just ask if anyone likes it on the "container forums"...You'll see...

Mike..:-)

Hi Mike, thanks for your help. I won't give up and even if this one dies, I'll order another one next year.

I'm going to try to answer each of your questions, one by one:

> or the root temps are not stable enough
> to properly free up the nutrients in the soil

The temperature in my apartment varies between 67 and 73 (the landlord keeps it hot, which I *love*.) HOWEVER, the plant was very near the window and I live in Boston, so it might be colder there.

> What fertilizetr are you using?
Um, err... I haven't fed it since May.... I kept on planning to do it, but I'm new to this and don't have any fertilizer or even know what to buy... :-( --I actually mentioned this in my first post and thought you all would jump on me about it in your first responses. :-)

> How much sun exactly does it get?

Previously, it was right up against a window that mostly faced east but faces a tiny tiny bit south as well. When I saw the leaves dropping so dramatically, I moved it about 3-4 feet from the window, where it still gets some artificial light from flourescent grow lights (I can use the grow lights on it if I need to, but would rather not). Since I was worried about what was wrong, I thought that it might be worth quarantining the plant by moving it away from the others.

> DO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A STORE TO BUY PERLITE
Not really, since I don't have a car. But I did order some, believe it or not, from Amazon about 20 minutes ago after reading your post. I have Amazon prime, so if all goes well it will show up tomorrow--overnight shipping is only $3.99, strangely enough. I'll cross my fingers. I also have an old chopstick that I can use as a dowel.

Thanks again for the support. Gotta run... I'll try to stop by a hardware store on the way home to see if they have any fertilizer. I already bought some Epsom salts at CVS.

If you need a great soiless mix and find it hard to get out to get some, I would be willing to pick you up ingrediants needed to make the gritty mix and deliver to your home for you, since I have friends I regulary visit in Boston anyway..

I only live 20 minutes away.. I can also pick you up fertilizer I use...Foliage pro...Great stuff

Let me know ok..

It doesn't have a disease. You dont have to isolate..Just make sure it is getting LOTS of sun..k

Mike..:-)

Hi Mike,
Well, hopefully the perlite will appear tomorrow, so that shouldn't be necessary.

I also came across some posts at the UBCBotanticalGardens.org forums that seemed really helpful. Check these out: post 1 and post 2.

I think that that is probably what's going on. The leaves were receiving a lot of light, but the pot was right next to the window and was rather cold to the touch. The fact that the roots look pretty healthy in the picture (and that I use a soil moisture meter) suggests that root rot might not be the problem.

I also just realized that this is exactly what curlygirl was saying in the first post, but it didn't make sense to me because I had read many posts about citrus tolerating (or even prefering) cold temperatures. What I didn't realize is that it's the disconnect between the foliage temperature and the root temperature that causes winter leaf drop.

Doesn't it feel god to know for sure that the roots are fine? That is always the first step you do before you move on to other possibilities...

That is why we suggested to root temps and other possibilities..I am glad you think you got it. Although I would still suggest not to grow in that soil mix you have before a root rot problem does occur.. It is about that time now for your soil to start compacting and suffocating the roots...:(

Goodluck,

Mike

> It is about that time now for your soil to start
> compacting and suffocating the roots...:(

Ugh, yes! I will definitely repot in other soil.

And, of course, I can't be sure that I've actually found the true problem, but my fingers are crossed.

Thanks, everyone for your help! I'll keep you updated...

I also think the problem is soil related. This past summer, I had to repot all my citrus because I realized that their peaty mix just would not absorb water no matter how much I watered--never experienced this problem with a soil mix previously. Now everything is back to normal (nice green foliage, flowering, fruiting, etc.) I would put your plant into a somewhat bigger container at time of transplanting. Don't overdo it because they seem to resent over-sized containers. Use a well-draining mix but one that has water retentive properties as well (kind of a balance thing here).--I know I had introduced humus into my peaty mix, in addition to some coarse sand and perlite. Personally, I don't think your problem has anything to do with cool/cold temps. I overwinter mine in a very sunny, south-facing garage (January temps are usually quite chilly (50's to mid 40's but occasionally into the 30's). I keep them very dry in the real cold season (January). They are currently in their winter home. Just watered them because it has been fairly sunny and mild (mid 60's outside/70's garage). Meyer's is currently covered with flowers and this doesn't normally happen until mid February. I have heard of the theory of chilly temps and sun on the leaves but frankly I just have not personally found this to be a problem. Maybe because although my winters can be very cold, periods of intense cold are infrequent and relatively brief. Good luck! PS., I do not fertilize the citrus from about October until March 1st.

njoasis,

How are you?...I am doing what you suggested this year, and so far so GOOD!!!!!

Thankyou..

I will tell you though, the "theory" is not a theory...Try putting supplemental lighting over your trees at those temps, on for more than 10 hours a day along with the sunlight, and see what happens..You won't have a tree with a leaf left on them within days at those cold temps..The roots will "NOT" work well enough to provide moisture to the leaves to keep up with the light..Your trees will shut down..Transpire, dehydrate,drop leaves, while the root sleep due to the cold temps....
You are right though, just the natural sunlight at those temps, less than 10 hours and no heat, does wonders..I havn't lost a leaf yet, and my orange and meyers are busting with buds!!!;-)

Thanks..;-)

Just another thought.

If the roots were very active in taking up water, then you wouldn't be able to go for such a long period of time without watering such as in January as you say, if this was not so...The roots do not work as hard..They rest as the tree also does...;-)

Therfore the problems start when providing too much light in that restive state and at those cold temps..

I am glad I finally figured this out...

Mike..:-)

Glad that your citrus are doing well. Citrus can be funny (as in temperamental funny). I find them to be very robust trees but they can really resent sudden changes as noted above. They kind of like a stable environment while at the same time they can put up with a lot of neglect (drought conditions, light frosts, etc.) I lost so many trees when I would bring them into the house that I finally gave up one year and decided to overwinter in the garage--it was 100% better. (One issue with Citrus is that their highly aromatic oils are also very attractive to potential insect pests.) I would only bring in the limes at first (they're really more tropical than subtropical). This year I have it in the garage--partly for lack of inside space, partly because I'm not so sure which one the single lime tree is anymore because I got careless with the labeling and it's not lost in the grove. My tropical guava has now spent multiple winters in the garage to no detriment so I'm hopeful and if it goes into decline, at least I'll have my lime identified. My next potential acquisition is a grapefruit tree (will try to get one in the spring). I was having a big problem with yellowing leaves last season in the summer, that's when I recognized that I had a soil issue and spent an afternoon transplanting everything--actually removing the trees from the containers, carefully removing a bunch of the soil and introducing some good humus and perlite into the mix. This can be potentially dangerous for Citrus (being temperamental about transplanting) but it was summer and there has since been a massive improvement. The only one that still seems to be in a funk is a very large Valencia Orange tree (also the only plant I did not repot) so, next spring I will get it out of it's container to see what's what. (Currently have fruit on Navel Oranges, kumquats, Mandarin, Eureka Lemon and the dwarf Valencia.--Meyer's has been flowering like crazy this fall for some reason.) Eventually, when I win the big lottery, I'm putting a hot tub into my converted loft greenhouse/garage.--May help some in keeping away the frost as an additional benefit. By they way, all those Meyer's lemons eventually ended up in several batches of sangria. So there you have it, what makes me happy on those long winter days--sitting in a hot tub surrounded by flowering and fruiting citrus trees and sipping on an icy cold sangria.--Happy Thanksgiving citrus lovers!

Lol.....I actually stayed at a hotel in Vermont last month that had an indoor pool that was in what looked like a HUGE greenhouse...It was all glass, top to bottom, side to side...Boy the inside of it was so warm and humid, and I had a vision of sitting there surrounded by all my trees having a gay ole time, sipping on a margerita!!..lol

I know what you mean..I am thinking of encasing my whole back yard in glass, with an in ground pool, and sticking all my plants in there..God what a dream!!

It is good to see your plants doing well. Your right, once you lose the labels, forget it..lol

Keep us updated on your trees my friend...I will too.. I will be posting a picture of one of my orange trees that finally started ripening it's fruit. I wanted to wait till they got orange before I offer everyone here a piece of fruit..lol

Take care..:-)

Mike..:-)

Hi all, thanks for posting! As I said, I'm going to be repotting the to get it in some soil with better drainage.

njoasis, regarding what you said about keeping your citrus in a cold garage, I refer to something that was written in one of the posts I linked to: "There are two options for getting citrus through the winter in good shape. 1-Keep the roots warm ( at least 65 F) and give the tree some light (a bright window is sufficient). 2-Keep the tree out of direct sunlight and let the roots cool, but maintain overall temp above 40." It sounds like you are taking approach number 2 by keeping your citrus in the garage. I, on the other hand, was giving the plant direct light, and I suspect it was the combination of direct light (approach 1) and cool roots (approach 2) that caused the leaf drop. I think that this is what MeyerMike was saying as well. The fact that the roots seem firm and healthy seems to be a good sign.

I was out of town last weekend so I left a light on and very close to the pot. When I came back, one more leaf had dropped, but that was it (compared to the three that had dropped in the previous day). The leaves also seemed to look a bit healthier. I also fertilized before I left, using Miracid and a tiny bit of Epsom salts.

It's going to have tough times ahead, though. I'm heading home for Thanksgiving on Tuesday afternoon, and I'm not coming back until Sunday. I'm going to see if I can get a neighbor to water it on Friday, but I don't want to leave the light on and I'm worried about humidity levels. They might go as low as 20%...

I've been able to take a very philosophical approach to it, though. I think that I've learned enough from you guys and all of the reading that I've been doing that even if this one dies, I'll still be able to get another one, and will be able to take better care of that one. The important thing is that I'm learning and my skills are improving.

Helpful discussion since our first Meyer was bought this summer. Brought it in when temps dropped and it promptly dropped half its leaves but hasn't since. It's been hanging in the kitchen in front of large south windows, has been flowering like MAD. Our home thermostat is set at 63 or so, but the windows warm up the kitchen considerably on sunny days. Crazy thing has six good sized lemons on it from summer. Leaves have started drying and dropping again, I mist it faithfully several times a day. Nearby heat registers are closed. I water maybe once a week and the pot is pretty big so I can't imagine the soil temps varying that much. Back in the summer I put in two globby Osmocote slow release fertilizer things made for pots, at about half the recommendation. Its neighbor the hibiscus is happy happy happy in the same spot and the same water schedule. Any thoughts?

I didn't mean our meyer was actually hanging, just hanging out. Pot is on the floor, not in front of the glass.

When I am back from vaca, I will have some thoughts..;-)

Hi game theory,

More warmth=more light
More cold=less light....

I can't believe it took me this long to learn this..lol

Don't worry about your trees drying out if you have them out of the sunlight and gave them a good drench before you left..They will just wilt and still survive if no sun..:-)

Ps...Little humidity makes no difference in good growth..That is a myth...It can cause mites and other pests to occur. It doesn't affect good growth though without the pests...I have some I NEVER provide humidity for that do just as good as those that get it...:-)

Think of this..

Why do citrus do so well in in a state like Arizona with little or no humidity at all?

Ralnac,

Check for mites...Mixing hibiscus with a citrus is a bad combo for the winter..Mite magnets hibiscus are..Mites can cause waves of leaf drop and curled up leaves..

Also I would take the pot up off the floor and put it on a stand to keep soil temps stable..You would be suprised at how much cold soil conducts from being on the floor..

Mike...:-)

Hi game theory,

More warmth=more light
More cold=less light....

I can't believe it took me this long to learn this..lol

Don't worry about your trees drying out if you have them out of the sunlight and gave them a good drench before you left..They will just wilt and still survive if no sun..:-)

Ps...Little humidity makes no difference in good growth..That is a myth...It can cause mites and other pests to occur. It doesn't affect good growth though without the pests...I have some I NEVER provide humidity for that do just as good as those that get it...:-)

Think of this..

Why do citrus do so well in in a state like Arizona with little or no humidity at all?

Ralnac,

Check for mites...Mixing hibiscus with a citrus is a bad combo for the winter..Mite magnets hibiscus are..Mites can cause waves of leaf drop and curled up leaves..

Also I would take the pot up off the floor and put it on a stand to keep soil temps stable..You would be suprised at how much cold soil conducts from being on the floor..

Mike...:-)

Gametheory,

One more thing...Why not provide some calcium for your plants along with vinegar?

You need to have a balance and providing just Mg will eventually work against the health of your plants.Calcium and Mg work hand and hand..Be careful not to provide too much Mg without calcium..;-)

Sorry for the double post...

Where I live Meyers are common, my biggest rooted from a neighbor's bush when a lost lemon landed on our side and one of the seeds found a foothold.

Your pot is really, really small. Meyers have good taproots and very wide surface roots. They don't tolerate competition very well in the garden; like roses they're heavy feeders. Because they fruit young, people get all excited about harvesting a crop. However, you might be better off putting it in a larger pot and letting the root ball expand larger; e.g., stronger growth now vs a few early fruits which are taking nutrients away from future growth.

Remember that lemons are a winter crop, not a summer crop. Out here I have loads of hard green lemons in August, but it's only now I'm starting to pick a few each week from our three Meyers. Biggest crop is usually January-March. Inconsistent watering and feeding contribute to leaf/fruit drop; citrus appreciates a regular schedule.

To me, besides the yellowing, your Meyer looks like it just doesn't get enough light. Meyers are bushes, actually, not trees, with heavily crossing branches, and they need a lot more leaves than you have before the plant can support fruiting and growth at the same time. My biggest Meyer actually grows in a very shaded spot, but it's bright shade and receives it steadily 10 hrs a day.

Warmth isn't as important as sufficient light. In a California winter, our temps regularly go into the mid-40's at night. As long as the daytime temps hit the 60's, outdoor Meyers will ripen fruit. Because of their heavy feeding needs, larger pots are better, along with citrus fertilizer and liquid iron in regular amounts throughout the year. Non-citrus fertilizer mixes will not do except on an occasional basis. Citrus fertilizer is specifically formulated to work well. Good luck to you and HTH a little.

jkom51,
I was thinking the same about what you said regarding the temps. I lived in Phoenix for a short period of time, and during the winter months the lows can dip into the low 40's and the lemon trees didn't seem to skip a beat. I also don't agree with not using the MG for citrus/cacti. That is what I used in combination with there organic soil which is VERY rich and heavy. My citrus grew fine and my keylime actually trippled in size. I think you just need to be carefull and monitor how much water you give it. I have seen citrus drop every leaf and pull themselves back.
Andrew

Hi, it's the OP here...

I've got to run, but I thought I'd give an update since you all were so kind as to respond. I'm happy to report that the plant is doing much better now. It hasn't dropped any more leavs and has grown 3 new ones. All leaves are a nice deep green.

I ended up moving the plant away from the window (less sun and warmer) and toward the radiator (even warmer). I've also fertilized a little bit with epsom salt and plain old Miracle Gro houseplant food. I suspect that it was the temperature that did it, but who knows! :-) I'm just glad to have it healthy again.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback!

I know this is posted years later, but it is also good to mist the leafs and soil some.

I have a meyer lemon tree growing as well, and although it is young it is growing well.

Here is a link that might be useful: sunroomgardening.blogspot.com

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are those large white dots from spider mites? I've never had this type of citrus but none of mine have those speckles like that on them. This is obviously not an immediate issue, but judging from the pictures, I'd say that your tree has spider mites.

How to warm your soil and earn a hefty amount.

{{gwi:39911}}
8 CFL's in two ft by 2ft light/heat chamber. holds 16 broccoli plants in gallon tins while the kumquat tree hangs though to heat its root to 90 F.

{{gwi:570206}}
This is the double bucket light that goes over the meiwa kumquat tree from seed.

{{gwi:32373}}
over 400 holes in container for drainage with out soil loss as well as aeration.

{{gwi:1912}}
THE TREES MEIWA AND NAGAMI KUMQUAT

This is a old post but , its called winter leaf drop. Roots get chilled and shut down. A soil thermometer is a must in NE US homes. Don't let the soil get lower than 60f. But 70 and 80s are better. I read citrus research papers and found out what the problem was . after trying everything .... I saved my tree . Yellow leaves will not recover but after about a month of warming the roots new growth started and no more yellow leaves.

Jordan, I agree then disagree...Yes, it's great to have warm roots if you are growing in the most sunny area in your home, facing due south with more than 8 hours of it...

If you provide less sunlight than that, you will drop leaves with warmer roots than roots that are kept on the cooler side of things...It's quite a balancing act in which many fail, which explains many problems many get with winter leaf drop. Finding that happy medium takes years of practice and and failures..

Mike. I keep my air temp at 80f. My humidity at 4o to 50. I have 3 grow lights. 2 feet long each. My soil at 65 to 75. I have meters for all. I read many studies by citrus growers. I use their recommendations. I use a augmented MG citrus mix. I added green sand and perlite to it. The soil is not their recommendation but someone elses. Water with distilled warm water with a little vinegar, citrus tone, half strength, when meter is on dry .It saved my graphed tree . my seed tree never had left drop but when i changed its environment it took off.. In summer i never had a issue. Just what worked for me.

Yes, as you can see, you added supplemental lighting which makes all the difference in the world...Anyone with less that ideal light will get leaf drop if not twig die back if roots are heated with very little direct sunlight or added lights...)