Another picture

You might need a larger pot, or the tree may need more sun. The larger the pot, the better.

I don't grow inside but, you should list what kind of mix you are using for soil
the temps you are growing it at
and what/how long it gets light for

Kind of looking like it is dying of kindness but what do I know

A PLASTIC TREE!!! If you have found this site; and you have tried to learn from it; and you still have something that looks like that, you probably should give it up and try something else.

lots and lots of humidity? If it's anything like an orange tree. although i'm sorry to say i think it's almost dead.

no fertilizer just now.
water enough so it's moist but not soaking wet ... it still needs oxygen at its roots.
it does need sun.
it needs humidity .... put it inside a closed container/pot and put that inside another larger ? rubbermaid? container with a couple of inches of water ... you don't want the roots drowning but you do want the leaves/trunk getting humidity.

don't feel bad ...citrus trees aren't easily grown inside.

i watched a beautiful little orange tree die because i didn't know about humidity.

I have lots of green thumbs and rarely kill anything ...and yet i couldn't figure it out in time ...it was sad. It was also this time of year with the dryer air of central heating.

Don't go to plastic.... it's depressing. Go with something easier if this doesn't make it...something for your house conditions. it's easier for you if the plant can adapt to your house rather than trying to adapt your house to the plant.

:) all the best.

Send us a picture of the potting medium. I have a strong suspicion that it's been suffering from waterlogged roots or the inexplicable citrus tree monster.

-Tom

JOHN

The very first thing I thought of was a Plastic tree. My studies in cur÷mudg÷eon-dree are no where near the needed complexities to pull this one off tastefully.

No one seems to understand just how hard it is to grow citrus trees out of there domain. They don't take much time but one must be connected as if in spirit with the tree's life energy. Otherwise its DEATH & DESTRUCTION for the innocent tree.

I break all the rule and do fine with my citrus trees (excluding kumquats from seed)

pdxlemon As long as the twigs are green and not dried up your tree is alive. Citrus is so hard to grow because they don't go dormant like our native trees. Try growing a cherry tree indoors. It is much harder than citrus because it MUST go dormant.

I am going to suggest growing HARDY CHICAGO FIGS. they are much easier and more productive. They grow fast and bounce back from catastrophes well. They are also much more attractive. The fig tree below is 4 months old from cutting. Check out my fig thread I have in the fig forum.

last time I discussed figs in citrus forum I was accused of being a TROLL and found my self hiding under bridges.

Steve

PS I lost over 300 seed grown citrus trees before my losses dropped to 0. Learning curve

Here is a link that might be useful: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fig/msg0223165126211.html

I will get a picture of the pot / soil tonight. Could I tent the tree in a large bag to increase the humidity for the tree?
thanks for the feedback

You absolutely NO NOT need humidity to be very successful with trees inside.

In fact, it's the roots that are giving you a problem..If the roots were functioning properly, the tree would be well hydrated enough to thrive even in the winter..

Please, as requested, show us the soil, explain what kind you use, how long it's been in that pot, what kind of fertilizer you use and how often, how long it takes to dry out and how you know when to water it.

Usually the biggest culprit behind the demise of any citrus tree for newbies is either bad watering practices or poor soil judgment.. Let us help you for your next try at it if you should loose that one)

MIke

Mike is absolutely correct.
No humidity needed. I grow citrus indoors in a dry house, no bags, no misting, nothing.

Josh

well I do see that Mike also lives in a very cold climate and i'd expect his heating system dries out his air to very low humidity like mine does. ... 10-30% ... so Mike i'm very interested in your trees and will look for your posts. :)

I still believe in humidity though ...there's a reason why orange groves are in Florida and not Arizona ... as far as I know and it's not just the easier watering.

But I also know that citrus is complicated ..we've several trees in Brisbane, Australia. Your tree could have/and probably does have several problems. I'll give the argument over to Mike for growing citrus indoors. :)

But if you were to increase humidity i'd make sure that it wasn't closed and there was a very large opening at the top for the air to circulate and escape.

all the best. :)

ps: the only reason I came on to this thread is because the member sounded so urgent and it was very late at night. :)

This post was edited by toronto.and.brisbane on Fri, Nov 21, 14 at 14:34

Actually there are citrus groves in Arizona, and also Southern California where there are acres and acres of them. Southern California is just as much as a dessert as Arizona, especially the interior valleys and the Imperial valley. Very, very dry air in the summer in both areas and high heat and citrus is grown there commercially very successfully.
No need for high humidity to do well.

Listen to mikemyer and greenman, they are giving you very good advice, this citrus problem is highly likely due to watering practices and/or soil issues. Please, if you do want help, answer the questions they asked and post pictures of the soil and the whole tree.

Here is a picture of the soil, I have no idea what the soil mix is, most likely it is "potting soil" from home depot. Watering... out of fear of over watering I have been watering once a week with 2 cups of water. once a month with miracle grow.

Inside temperature is 58-66 this time of year, humidity should be pretty good, it will be raining for the next 5 months.

It is by a south facing window, hours of day light are around 8 right now.

Thanks for the advice and help, I am in need of it.
cheers

I live in the desert southwest and there's probably 15,000-20,000 acres of citrus groves near and around my house and I haven't seen rain in 8 or 9 months. Not one drop! My humidity has been in the single digits to negative digits at times for the last 2 weeks and my trees are greener than they have been in months. Citrus trees do not need any humidity whatsoever. Citrus trees needing humidity is a myth that won't die. There are now more orange groves in Arizona and SoCal than there are left in Florida, mostly due to HLB. Your probelm is your soil, you need some gritty mix or 5-1-1 mix and get some citrus appropriate fertilizer, MG does not have the correct combo of nutrients that citrus trees need. Most container folks on the forum here use dyna gro foliage pro with every watering at half strength during the colder months and full strength with every watering during the warm months. Also, when you water your tree and its in gritty mix or 5-1-1 you need to water until the water flushes out of the bottom of the pot, a couple of cups a week is not enough water. Just my .02 with my little knowledge of potted citrus growing. Hope it helps and good luck.
Evan

toronto, not sure where you're getting your information, but citrus are not tropical plants, and thus do not require high humidity. In fact, where citrus grow in high humidity areas (such as Florida, S. Carolina and gulf coast states), those growers struggle with fungal issues. And, if you are interested in seeing any of MeyerMike's incredible citrus trees, all you need to do is search this forum for Mike's incredible indoor citrus trees and you'll see he is probably our preeminent indoor container citrus grower on this forum.

Barb, Evan and Mike are correct. I live in the "citrus belt" of S. California. It is very dry were I am for most of the year, and my 100+ citrus trees are doing just fine. But, I'm not nearly as dry as the Imperial Valley area of S. California, where we grow thousands of acres of commercial citrus and the humidity is in the teens just about all year 'round. Same with AZ.

It is your soil. I guarantee that you've got root rot, and now, it appears that your soil is so dried out, it has most likely become hydrophobic. So, if you want to save this tree, re-pot immediately using a well-draining potting mix. Search our forum for "511" or "Gritty" mix, and mix that up, and re-pot. Water appropriately. But your tree in the sunniest window you have. Supplement with artificial full-spectrum grow lights if necessary. Fertilize with 1/2 strength Foliage Pro (by Dyna Gro). You can purchase that on amazon.com. Pull off any fruits that might be growing, to give the tree a chance to put all its reserves into restoring itself to health. Lastly, watch for pests, such as spider mites and scale, the bane of indoor citrus growers, and treat immediately, multiple times (both can be rather persistent).

Patty S.

HI guys ... ok I believe you ... really.... thank you .... :)

I got my information both the care of citrus and the florida versus Arizona groves from the nursery where I bought my mini orange tree ...lol... no, I don't want to hear bad things about them ... but if I ever get another indoor citrus I will come here and ask you guys from the first day.

I never kill plants and my little orange tree just died in front of my eyes.... but I do have really dry air ... and the house was 23 degrees C. ... All I know is it dropped leaves and died in about ? 2-3 weeks if not much less.

yes, I do want to look at mike's trees.... :) I just hope I don't start thinking that another little indoor orange tree might be nice to have.....

pdxlemon i'm sorry to thread jack and I wish you all the best for your tree. :)

any chance you had it outside.. before you brought in indoors ....

looks like frost/cold damage ...

it really hasnt been cold.. enough.. long enough.. in the great white north.. to be a humidity/furnace issue.. thats a late jan/feb issue ...

i suspect.. you had it outside .. it it got zapped.. and you ran in the house and hit the WWW

any chance in heck.. i am right???

ken

BTW .. to a tree guy.. your media looks too peaty.. for a tree ... the other alternative.. is root rot ... same look ... we dont water.. inside.. in winter.. like we might do.. outdoors in heat ... the TREE... just doesnt need it ... and at some point rejects it.. by rotting its roots off ... [and the real kicker.. is the more it droops.. the more you think it needs more water.. and the more water.. the more roots rot.. aw heck.. chuck it out the door.. lol] ... tip it out of the pot.. and tell us what you find.. white juicy healthy root tips.. or black dead stuff ]

pps: the definition of a green thumb.. is that you have killed every plant.. 3 times... if this is ONLY ... your second try ... chin up.. get on with it.. kill it.. and try again... lol ...

toronto.and.brisbane

You are right about our cold dry air. It is very hard on citrus trees. As long as nothing is wrong, the trees do well. but when the trees are sick the humidity can help a lot. I appreciate your sharing on the citrus trees. They are hard to grow out of their domain.

Steve

Thanks the Foliage Pro is on order, now I need to figure out the 5-1-1. thanks.

Oh and nope the tree hasn't been outside, i have done all this damage myself!

So for an indoor potted tree, is 5-1-1 or a gritty mix better, or is it just personal preference. Up until a week ago, I had never considered the soil the pants where in. anymore guidance on this?

Here is a link to a short easy read on just about everything you could ever want to know about gritty mix. It was posted in the container growing forum but it still applies to citrus container growing as well.
Evan

Here is a link that might be useful: Gritty mix post

Thanks Evan, just what I needed.

No problem, earlier sarcasm aside, there is a ton of good info on that thread and the accompanying threads inside that thread, much to learn about container soils. Enjoy.
Evan

I would say the 5-1-1 is much easier, especially for a newcomer to fast-draining mixes. Plus, it's lighter in weight, cheaper to make, and still very durable (can last a couple years if the bark is uncomposted to start).

Josh

Well the tree in now in ICU, freshly potted into gritty mix, roots freed from a supper tight root ball of peat. Watered with Dana Grow at half strength, all fruit removed. Now hoping for the best.

That's great! Keep us posted on its progress, we always like hearing a good success story here on the citrus forum. Best of luck.
Evan

Good luck!
Remember, light and frequent waterings to keep the area of the mix moist wherever the roots are currently. Don't let it go as dry as you normally would. Eve if this tree doesn't survive, save that wonderful mix for the next tree.

Josh

Thanks, I now realize that I don't know how to tell when I need to water again. So how do you monitor the moister, and what should it be?

Light? It is sitting by a window, but should I keep a regular light on next to as well?

Thanks for the help,
Jeff

As much light as possible.
But I hope my phrasing wasn't confusing....I meant to water lightly and frequently, in order to keep the mix uniformly moist (but not soaked) in the root-zone. Use a wooden shish kabob skewer, poked into the mix, to tell you what the moisture level is. Easiest trick in the book :-)

Josh

Hey, good work...Been away from this thread, sorry..But you have gotten great advice.I in particularly love how Josh explained watering to you..

Do you remember how deep the roots are in that pot? Until the roots grow into that pot, stick your dowel into the root ball and make sure that it does not dry out...

Mike

Thanks for the water and light tips, doing both now. I have to say after 24 hours I was not expecting the tree to look like this! This is the best its looked in a long time, I was expecting all the leaves to fall off. So far so good.

Jeff

Ho, whoa. That was some FAST recovery. Well done. Clearly you have seen the wisdom of using a well draining mix and proper nutrition! Your tree is really resilient and clearly had enough healthy roots to be able to snap back, quickly! That is worth all your efforts :-)

Patty S.

Whoa is right Patty!!! Jeff, amazing isn't it?? I am so happy for you)) Great job..

Mike

Well It has been 40 days and it is still living so that is good right?!
I have few more questions now, I seem to have small white spots on the leaves, and they are curling. I have been using a stick in the mix, to monitor the watering, and I have using dynagrow at each watering. (about 1c/3days). What are the groups thoughts on the leaves?

thanks

curl or normal?

1 cup of water every three days?
Evan

Yes that is pretty close, I have 12" bamboo skewer in the mix, when I pull it out it is damp not wet, when it feels dry I pour 1 cup around the trunk. Should I be watering with more volume less often?

Yes, I believe that having your tree in a more porous mix means you should water it until you see water coming out of the bottom of the pot. Do that less often, maybe once a week indoors? Or if you see it starting to wilt after a few days water it again. I don't think 1 cup of water every 3 days is enough water for your sized tree.
Evan

Interesting. Based upon the damage mostly down low and the appearance I would have guessed the OP's original posting indicated the potted citrus had gotten somewhat frozen. With the exception of Imp. Meyer lemon (18F), lemons are pretty sensitive to temps much below 32F and you expect damage from the bottom up since cold air settles.

Ok I will start adding "water" around more of the pot, and more of it. What about light, what is the minimum the tree needs? i have been wondering about that as its not the brightest time of year here. The tree has only been in the house, and the lowest indoor temps are 58-70F this time of year.

I have far less experience than the majority of folks here growing lemons, but I do have a meyer in gritty mix, so I'll add my $0.02. I think the initial decline of the plant was due to under watering and the most recent leaf curling is also a symptom of under watering. I've found it darn near impossible to overwater my Meyer lemon when it's planted in gritty mix. It sits under a 150 watt HPS lamp during the winter and I water it every 4 days until I see water in the saucer. Since it's so heavy and I don't care to move it, I even let the water sit in the tray. The gritty mix is very forgiving for people who have a heavy hand on the watering can.