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efine50

Meyer is sticky & scale!

efine50
18 years ago

Sorry if this has been covered before but the search engine on this forum doesn't seem to give me any results.

I got 2 Meyer lemons from a friend of mine. I noticed that this sticky residue was dropping and the leaves have scale. Since it's such a pretty warm day today I decided to drag them outside (NOT an easy task cause they are huge!) I sprayed them down with the garden hose and then sprayed with watery Dawn and plan to spray them with a fungicide before bringing them back in. Should that do it? Any additional suggestions??? Love the fragrance they give off but I hate the mess or am I doing something wrong? Help!

Evelyn

Comments (17)

  • birdsnblooms
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Evelyn, the sticky stuff is honeydew..Do you see scale? Why are you using a fungicide?
    Since your trees are large, the best way to rid them is hosing outside..Also, usiing some type of oil like Neem or Fish Emulsion. Spray everywhere..over and under leaves, stems, etc. Those you see, pluck and squish. You may have to hose 2-3 times..but if you use the oils, read instrcutions as far as using water after applying the oil..it may say not to use if it's going to rain, therefore there won't be any need for hosing.
    Since you've already hosed, (and to be honest I don't think hosing will rid all the scale) start w/the oils. I wouldn't use any harher chemicals than oils, too much can happen. How big are your trees? Toni

  • efine50
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Toni, I used the fungicide cause many of the leaves had black stuff on them. Yes there is scale on the leaves and the stems. I did the pluck & squish till my fingers hurt...lol. One tree is about 5' tall and about as wide...the other is 4'. I have fish emulsion so I'll try that. I had them in the house but they made a sticky mess. I put them on my enclosed porch. Will they be able to handle 50 degrees?? They flowered heavily but I only have 2 little lemons that don't seem to get any bigger for over a month? Guess you can tell I'm a real newbie when it comes to Meyers....lol

  • stressbaby
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Efine,

    Horticultural oil or Neem oil may work on your scale. Some consider horticultural oils phytotoxic, and they recommend applying them on a cloudy day. I have had good luck with Neem on whitefly and mealybug. I have gone to using baby shampoo for my soap sprays, as many of the liquid soaps available have detergents added, which are also phytotoxic. I have toasted some greenhouse tomatoes with soap sprays in the past. Fortunately, citrus do not seem to be quite so sensitive.

    Citrus root absolute zero is around 55F. At 50F the roots will not take up water or nutrients. If there is "demand" on the top of the tree by way of warmth/light, the roots may not keep up and you will have leaf drop. So you have to match the "demand" from the top of the plant with the "supply" from the roots. The citrus can certainly survive 50F temps, but without any uptake of water or nutrients they will not grow. SB

  • birdsnblooms
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Efine, does the black stuff wipe off or is it something embedded in the foliage?
    Make sure you're not keeping the soil too wet..Overwatering is the number 1 killer of plants.
    I don't think 50F will hurt your Meyer's..I've a small gh and at night it can drop to 45, yet, my citrus grow, flower and fruit. And believe me, it's cold here in IL. :)
    Perhaps w/the lower temps the scale will decide to move..LOL..or die.
    How bad, what percentage of scale do you see on the tree?

    I was told by a woman who owns a nursery to use Fish Emulsion to keep bugs at bay..they've been in business over 40 yrs and been using this method since.

    Wow, your trees are big and too large to hand-pick each scale, so that's out..Your poor fingers..LOL..
    On warm days, is it possible for you to take plant outside and hose? I'm not sure how warm it is in NC this time of yr.

    If you decide to go w/the Neem, please be careful. I've heard many complaints after use. In fact, someone on this thread just mentioned he/she had a disaster after using. So, if you use follow directions to the T. As for fish emulsion, I use 1 capful per mister of water. It's a 16oz mister. spray everywhere. But it's going to take time to rid these bugs, especially if there are many. Good luck, and Happy New Years..Toni

  • efine50
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Toni, the black stuff wipes off so I figured it was a fungus of some sort.
    After cleaning some of the scale off I'd say there's still probably 20% left. I'm going to try the fish emulsion today for the rest. Since the Meyers are among other plants on the porch I don't want the scale to spread.
    Here in NC we'll get some balmy days...high 50's low 60's so the next time I get a chance to move them outside I'll do another hosing.
    SB, thanks for the info about temps. Since I've moved the trees on the porch they still seem to be taking in a lot of water. They are sitting in big bowls and my friend told me to keep water in them at all times. I did have some leaf drop when moved inside but that's leveling off and have had some new growth. I sure hope I can keep them going till it's warm enough to take them back outside.
    Thanks to everyone for all your help and hope you have a Happy New Year!
    Evelyn

  • birdsnblooms
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Evelyn, 20% is getting better. How did you clean the scale off? showering? hosing?
    Evelyn, about the bowls, are the bottom of containers sitting in water at all time? If so, please stop..(S) It's fine to keep saucers filled w/water for humidity as long as the water isn't touching the roots at all times..You don't want the soil staying constantly wet. This will cause all types of problems, including pests and rot. Otherwise, if the container is filled w/water and under the roots that's a different story..this will help with humidity.
    There's another oil sold at www.gardensalive.com It doesn't burn roots or leaves yet rids pests..if the fish emulsion doesn't work I'd check it out..Toni
    It's a good idea you moved the Meyer's to another location..btw, I'd check the plants that was neighboring the Meyer's before you discovered scale. Look everywhere. Under and atop leaves, stems.

  • ianna
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi I need to resurrect this thread. I have a meyer lemon that had scales. It's a small potted plant. My question is that what should I do to remove the stickiness. The scales have been removed at least most that I've encountered but what to do with the sticky leaves.

    Any ideas?
    Ianna

  • birdsnblooms
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ianna, for starters, since your tree is small, I take to the sink, sprinkle or spray dish soap, and hose away. You can rub in soap on leaves w/fingers..then hose. This should work..Also, let water seep inso soil and allow water to run through..Toni

  • fegray
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a lemon tree grown from seed,(do not know type) it is 36 years old, 30 yrs with me. It is in my home in a large pot, about 8' tall. it dropped about 1/5th of it's leaves just after the 1st of the year in the upper portion, yet is still full on the lower half and the top. I just found sticky(sap like)droplets on the top half branches. The leaves appear to have a spray of the same sticky substance on them as well as the floor, wall and pot edge around the tree. It has small brownish spots (?scale?)on the upper branches that rub off and appear yelllow on the cloth. I also found only one leaf with a white web that also rubbed off.
    This tree has never flowered, no fruit. Would appreciate any help! After 30 years, you can imagine I am somewhat attached. I read somewhere in my search about some highly contagious bacteria "canker something??? Or is there hope to save my tree.

  • gardner_dragon
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    At 36 years old you have accomplished quite a feat. Aslo given the age of the tree and the fact that it has never flowered leads me to believe you may be pruning the tree to keep it at a managable size. This is whats keeping it from flowering. Even though you have had the tree for 36 years its only a few years old in growth. You have kept it juvinile. Citrus needs to reach a certain number of nodes(leaves) before its mature enough to fruit. By pruning you are removing the nodes and it keeps starting over. Solution: Don't prune the tree.

    The sticky sap like substance can be from several insect pests. Soap and water will kill most all of these except scale. You can also use Safer soap insecticide from the garden center. This will help with immature scale.

    Scale insects can be removed by hand and squished. Those that are "stuck" can be removed by using a q-tip dipped in alachol. Rub this over the scale to help loosen the "glue" that holds them fast to the branch. They can then be squished. You can spray the tree with a 50/50 mix of alachol and water to kill any immature scale and other insects.

    I don't believe you have anything to worry about when it coes to bacterial canker unless you have imported a citrus plant from Florida in the last few years. Bacterial citrus canker does not live in zone 7, nor do the bugs that cause the disease. Lemon plants seem to be somewhat immune to the canker bacteria.

    Its normal for citrus to drop part of their leaves when indoors. It could also be caused by the scale/spider mite infestation. Does your tree go outside for the spring and summer?
    Andi

    Here is a link that might be useful: Citrus Canker

  • fegray
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    gardner dragon, thank you so much. Yes, I have a trolley cart that I use to moved the tree outdoors as soon as safe to do so, for several years in the past the tree had to stay in the garage,on the interior wall b/c I did not have the room inside in the winter months. I moved last Sept. and it was outside for a month, it grew at least a foot since my move, also I have vaulted ceilings now so it is really stretching. Getting it out the door will be a challenge this year.
    Would you say this is a meyer? What is the diff, as I have no idea what kind of seed it was started from. In fact friends always doubted it was a lemon tree, since never any fruit, however, I was in Venice, Italy this past year and the hotel had an outside patio garden, low and behold I saw my lemon tree with lemons on it.
    As for the safer soap I will try this. Leaves don't seem to be affected, only that one I originally mentioned. Thanks again.

  • gardner_dragon
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would say your tree is NOT a Meyers Lemon since it was planted from seed. The Meyers does not come true from seed as it is a hybrid. Its a combination of a lemon and an orange or Mandarin.
    Andi

  • don_in_ct
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hello fegray,

    I am new to the forum but have been growing citrus in Connecticut (except for a decade spent in Florida) for about 35 years. My oldest tree is a sour orange I planted about 35 years ago when a young boy of 7 or so, and I have a large 4 by 4 foot Calamondin, a two by two Meyer Lemon (that had 25 lemons on it this fall, and still has 16 to go--2 lemons required per pie!), a two by-two Key lime, a 3 by 3 Buddha's Hand citron, a 2.5 foot tall and rather spindly Ponderosa lemon (on dwarfing rootstock), and a couple other smaller citrus, so I have plenty of experience with pruning, repotting, and dealing with insect infestations.

    I have had scale before, though not for many years. My citrus trees usually end up with spider mites during the winter: all it takes is a mite or two making it in during the move from outside to inside in October, and by Xmas I often have an infestation. The signs are similar to what you describe (sugary "sap", small spider webs, and sticky leaves). If you have mature scale insects of the kind I've encountered here in the northeast, they would likely be quite obvious and will often be clustered on the newer (say last summer's) shoots and should stand out from the green bark as they are typically brown or yellow or reddish brown. The nymphs or little scale crawlers move about, but the adults stay in one place. I am skeptical that Safer will do the trick for you if you have scale or spider mites, but it won't hurt to try, as long as you don't let them go on too long. In a couple weeks, in zone 7, you may even be able to move the plant outside where the rain and humidity will work against the insects.

    Note: If you have spider mites and your closeup eyesight is not the best, you may not be able to see the actual insects. The particular mites I get are so small that I can only see them when I have full sunlight falling on the leaves and can spot the mites moving around on them or their webs. They are smaller than periods in newsprint, and light reddish brown to yellow in color. The test is to take a white sheet of paper, hold it under the suspected site of infestation, and gently tap and shake the leaves and smaller branches. If you have mites, you'll have a few specs that slowly move on the paper after this.

    I have never had luck controlling mites with the friendly sprays many posters advocate, but as long as the infestation is not severe they will fade away in numbers once the afflicted plant goes outside. If the infestation is severe, they can weaken the tree to the point of no return, though with a large tree I think this is somewhat unlikely.

    There are other possible causes for sudden leaf drop as I'm sure you know: a cold draft, the natural dropping of old leaves, and uneven watering; this last is not necessary obvious. With your large tree, you may not be able to get it enough water if it is rootbound: you can water a citrus two or three times a week and still won't keep it happy if it is growing. Thus, if the tree gets too dry during the winter you can quickly kill it or cause a large section to die back.

    I make an effort to water my trees thoroughly up to twice a week in the winter if they are growing, flowering, and fruiting (and they often do all of this for months on end). By thorough, I mean until water comes out of the bottom of the drain holes. Having repotted and root trimmed a few times over the years, I can tell you that if a citrus plant is badly potbound and it goes into a growth phase you may need to water it every other day. I had to do this a few years ago. In other words, you may think you are watering enough, and you may even have water coming out the drain holes, but there may be too little soil to hold the water inside the pot long enough for the plant to drink it in. Of course, too much water can also cause leaf drop, so please check to see if your citrus is potbound. The quick test is to try to lift the rootball out of the pot. You may need help to do this! If it comes out and all you can really see is roots . . . well, that is a pretty good sign it needs to be root-trimmed and backfilled with new soil, or repotted, or both.

    Regarding your long-standing lack of flowers and fruit: I would say that this is odd. My 35 year old sour orange flowers and fruits profusely, and has done so since it was about 15 years old, and before then it did so to a lesser extent. I have kept it in a 22 inch plastic pot for the last 5 or 6 years and take it out and root prune it ever three or four. I think it is due for another pruning this spring. Including the container, it is about 6 1/2 feet tall: I prune it back a foot or two over the course of the summer (if it sends out suckers I tend to cut them before they get too unruly), and then I inevitably end up pruning it once more in October before it comes in. I regularly leave my citrus outside until the night temperatures drop into the low forties or upper thirties (I live in central Connecticut, and last fall I think the last citrus came inside on the 14th of October). In my experience, the only think healthy citrus trees need to induce flowering in the winter is a good sunny window: I've had them flower with west light, south light, and even west light in an attached garage that got down to 50 degrees at night where the light came in through the little garage windows. My advice is that as long as the tree is healthy you should try giving it a good pruning a week or ten days after you move it outside. Say a good 6 inches to a foot all the way around.

    Good luck!

    Don

  • fegray
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Don and Andy, Again I say thanks. A wealth of knowledge for sure and sounds like you know my tree. In fact I said it grew a good foot or so last summer/fall when I moved and that is exactly were most of the scales are, none evident on the trunk ot lower branches. I was initially thinking of just pruning that off at my earliest convenience. I am in NJ and it is still unseasonably cool, I was also considering moving it outside, temps are stil in the 40's though and we have the Noreaster this weekend.
    I started wiping the scales off but there are alot on the upper newer branches (I realize the tree is 8 foot tall now) but the ones I could reach wiped off easily, the scales fall all over the place, I took the alcohol on the q tip also again they slide right off. Kind of creapy, I am not used to dealing with this and not fond of bugs.
    I do agree that it is probably grossly potbound as it has been at least 5 or more years since I transplanted it, In the move it got somewhat neglected with watering, which I blamed the loss of leaves after the New Year, never thought about insects.
    I would really like to prune it to 6 feet where it is more manageable but how big of a pot should this be in? I looked for larger ones but have not seen any and it would be hard to move. The plastic pot it is in is 17 inches high and 21 inches at the tob wide.
    Thanks again to all. Felicia

  • don_in_ct
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Felicia,

    I think you have the same size container as I have my orange tree in. Therefore, I think if you root prune it sometime in May, when it is outside and the weather has improved, and put it back into the same pot it will be fine. I have done this twice with my orange. Basically it is being treated like a Bonsai. If you really need a larger container, they do exist, but you may have to pay quite a bit more than you paid for this size container. I have seen large plastic containers at many nurseries, but they are usually NOT at the local Home Depot. Just remember, if you step up to a 24 inch wide container you are adding a LOT of weight to the total package you will need to move around twice a year or more!

    When I root-prune, I prune the tree top and the roots at the same time so the top is not asking the bottom to deliver more nutrients than is fair. When I get to the step of root-pruning, I pull the tree out of the pot, and (you'll love this) take a very sharp wood hand saw and cut down the sides of the root ball, literally like I am cutting the rough skin off a pineapple. If your lemon really is root bound to the point where the roots are circling around and around the walls of the container, this approach might be too vigorous. Instead, I would use a pruning shears and snip and cut away at the outer half-inch or so of roots from the top to the bottom of the root-ball in say three or four places equidistant around the ball (like scoring an orange peel). Then I would use my fingers to tease out the cut roots, turning the plant on its side if that makes getting at roots easier. After cutting a way a good number of the offending roots, I would then try to remove as much soil as I could get at in the outer two inches or so of the root-ball. Then I would work the remaining root-ball back into the container that should have an inch or so of good soil already in the bottom of it, and then carefully backfill to fill in the newly created space using a good soiless mix. You will probably need to tamp the soil down with a ruler or sturdy stick quite a few times, and I would water the new soil in as I went, say after each four inches of the pot had been backfilled (this will help the soil work its way back into the places in the root-ball you've removed the old spent soil from. In addition, I would check to see if more soil needed to be added each time I watered the plant over the next couple of weeks.

    After such a major re-potting, it would be a good idea to keep the tree in a somewhat sheltered location (say good indirect light--as under a tree that casts naturally mottled shade). And be sure to keep the lemon tree well-watered (I would put it somewhere I could be sure to see the water was draining out of the pots drain-holes).

    Good luck!
    Don

  • dhhartley_aol_com
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My Meyer Lemon is 4'tall and about 4 yrs old. Blooming like crazy this year and bearing dozens of lemons up to 3/4". It has had mealy bug and scale but we got rid of them with alcohol. Now the leaves are dull and some are yellowing. We just gave it some azalea fert 14-7-7. How can we get the leaves to shine again?

  • oconeepeach
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What can I do to make Meyer Lemon tree leaves healthy & shiny. I think I ruined the shine with alcohol while ridding it of scale.