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onlineharvest

I.D. this plant, and other questions

OnlineHarvest
12 years ago

Hello,

I have numerous questions and appreciate your help. I'm in Ontario Canada, Zone 5.

I intend to grow a clematis vine with my pergola, BUT not in the traditional way. Instead of growing up the post and creating a canopy, I want to create a WALL of vine foliage from post to post (1 section only). Here are my questions.

1. What is the best way to train this vine for my purpose? I'm told to use a fine fishing type wire to train the plant UPWARDS until it get to the top. I can put a stronger wire from post to post at the top and 'drape' vines to grow back down, trimming as necessary to maintain this wall. Does that sound like a plan? I thought there may be quite a bit of weight on the wire at the top, perhaps use the actual wood structure instead (feed it over the main beam, but DO NOT want a canopy.

2. I'm trying to find a FLOWERING clematis that does NOT attract bees. I found one called 'Prairie Traveller's Joy', but this is nearly impossible to locate. Every where you see it online, they either do not carry it or they are not in business anymore. I also loved this option because it was VERY hardy and perfect because it reminds me of a vine I saw in Northern Italy (about 1 Hour north of Venice): see picture below:

{{gwi:590181}}

I have no idea if they are the same, but can someone identify this plant? Perhaps it is easier to locate.

3. I'd hate to pick a clematis that is too invasive. Another gardener suggested a couple other white flowering clematis, but there were too many negative comments regarding it taking over their space and their neighbours, and they attract bees, exactly what I don't want (Clematis paniculata or Clematis virginica were the suggestions).

Any guidance will be MUCH appreciated. Let me know if you need more information.

OnlineHarvest

Comments (7)

  • flora_uk
    12 years ago

    The picture from Italy looks like Trachelospermum jasminoides, commonly called star jasmine (although it is not a true jasmine)so no, it is not your clematis. Sadly it would not be hardy in Ontario.

    From what I can discover Prairie Travellers' Joy is a hybrid of your natives C. ligusticifolia and C. virginiana. Travellers' Joy is the traditional name for the UK's native Clematis, C vitalba, so presumably the name was transferred to the Canadian natives.

    Clematis wants to grow upwards so to create a wall I think you would need to get it growing across the bottom of your space and then train it up rather than growing it up and then expecteing it to hang down. I think it would just create a massive tangle at the top. Personally I would not use fishing line but either a properly made trellis or strong galvanised straining wires. Firstly nylon line would look ugly imo and secondly a full grown clematis of this type would be extremely heavy and need a very strong framwork. Believe me on this - I have just had to hire a man to remove the C montana from my shed so the roof can be fixed. The trunks are as thick as my arm. Better to prepare the support properly in the first place than try to sort out the mass of foliage and creepers later on.

  • OnlineHarvest
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    This Prairie Traveller's Joy is impossible to locate.

    Thanks for the ID and wire suggestion. So if I understand you correctly, I should have a wire going from top to bottom in each location I plant (or more, like a grid?). I assume that once the vine reaches the top and drapes over the pergola, these VERTICAL supports are no longer needed? (but if hidden, perhaps keep it). I can try to use the beam at the top of the pergola and feed the branches through, and drape down (better support).

    Considering my project, what other clematis would you recommend that is a fast grower (but not invasive), and does not flower (do not want bees at this location, its an area of relaxation)? Keep in mind the plan that I have to create a WALL of this vine. Once it drapes over and matures, how ought one to prune it? Leave the old growth so new will grow on it?

    OnlineHarvest

  • flora_uk
    12 years ago

    A couple of points:

    You say 'in each location I plant'. That sounds as if you are thinking of planting more than one Clematis. You don't say the area you want to cover but species Clematis of the type you are thinking of can easily fill a space of many, many square yards. You would only need one plant. I would envisage planting the Clematis at one of the posts and training it along a horizontal wire or timber to the opposite post. Then you could have vertical wires or, as you say a grid to fill in the rest of the space.

    This framework would be permanent. There is no way you could get it down once the clematis was growing all over it unless you cut down the plant.

    Wait a minute - I have just reread your last paragraph. And I realise you now want a Clematis 'that does not flower'. In which case scrub all of the above. If you don't want flowers don't grow Clematis. That is their raison d'etre in a Garden.

    Try asking over on the vines forum for a hardy, evergreen non flowering vine.

  • buyorsell888
    12 years ago

    The vine you saw in Italy is indeed, Trachelospermum jasminoides known in the US as Confederate Jasmine and Star Jasmine though it is not a true Jasmine.

    ALL Clematis flower and all hardy to your zone are deciduous so you would have naked stems in winter. They all require pruning too so frankly, they are not good for screens.

    Sounds to me like you might be happier with some cedar lattice panels for privacy/screening rather than a vine.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    12 years ago

    ANY flowering plant can attract bees. And virtually all plants except conifers flower. However, bees are not necessarily a bad thing to have buzzing around - they add life to a garden - and most bee species tend to be non-aggressive. They won't bother you if you don't bother them :-) I have all manner of flowering plants, including clematis vines and climbing roses, surrounding my deck on which I spend most of my time in summer and it is NOT an issue.

    It sounds like you want more of a visual screen rather than necessarily the flowering attributes of a clematis. If that is the case, there are a whole host of other plants that will accomplish this for you.

    As to locating your clematis, did you check Parkland Perennials? They offer it in their current spring catalog.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Parkland Perennials

  • OnlineHarvest
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Yes, you are correct. I was originally intending to plant more than 1. Silly me! Shows how much I know about all of this. My original intent was to space them apart and grow up, but I see why growing from the post, across, and up, is a better plan.

    The purpose of this WALL is purely aesthetic. Think of it in terms of artwork, in a way. My pergola is close to my fence line, so I wanted to create this wall to cover the view to the fence, and add interest to the pergola. There are trees and shrubs which cover the fence on either side of the pergola, on the fence line.

    Personally, I don't mind bees, but not my significant other! :) Her old house had flowering vines near the patio and she was constantly swatting/running from the bees which were attracted to them. I cannot change the fear some women have of this misunderstood creature! lol

    Thanks for all your help. I will post on the other forum.

    BTW, I'm truly greatful for the help people so readily offer online. Perhaps some day I will be in a position to pay it forward (certainly not now! lol).

  • buyorsell888
    12 years ago

    I'm a woman who is allergic to bee stings but I don't worry about them all over my garden. I never swat or run :)