There are a lot of unanswered questions that you didn't supply with your post that are needed to even begin to start offering advice but here are a few things to ponder on with regards to your clematis.

Most importantly, what type of clematis have you attempted to grow? Type IIs can give people particular trouble depending on their growing conditions. In my garden they are very prone to wilting back and developing browned out leaves in the heat of the summer. Try growing some of the type III viticellas for ones that typically are hardier, less likely to wilt, and be floriferous (Polish Spirit, Etoile Violette, Julia Correvon, Alba Luxurians, Carmencita, Royal Velours, Venosa Violacea, Kermesina, Blekitny Aniol, Minuet, etc). How long have any of your clematis been in the ground? Clematis need time to develop a strong established root system and some take longer than others to get established. You say you have tried pruning in fall and in spring. Some clematis are better served being pruned in the fall and some in the spring depending on your zone and the type of clematis and some don't need pruning at all after being established (except to prune out deadwood and to contain their spread). All clematis however should be treated as type IIs (cut back to within 4 inches or so the first spring or two in the ground to encourage a strong root system instead of the top growth). In your zone, planting in partial shade may not be giving them enough sun. Generally speaking planting in shade is recommended for the hotter zones so that the clematis are given shade in the hot afternoon sun. Clematis don't need cool soil, they need adequate moisture which can be helped by mulching with an organic mulch that will break down over time supplying tilth and moisture hold capacity in the soil. They also need added fertilizer depending on your soil's fertility. Too much nitrogen will also cause the plant to grow green vegetative growth and fewer flowers. How much and with what have you been fertilizing? You say you purchase the clematis from a local reputable supplier. Perhaps there is something inferior in the biological stock of your local area supplier's plant. Try ordering from Brushwood or Silver Star Vinery for great plants with great root systems to see if another source will provide better plants that will do better in your garden. What is the soil like where you have planted the clematis and how did you plant them? Clematis don't like wet feet but do like moist soil. You should also plant all new clematis several inches deeper in the ground than they were in their pots. This buries dormant nodes that can put out new stems if the top growth dies back.

I would only add that pinching several times at young age will help to avoid leggy vines.

It has been my experience that most local nurseries either get the flashy early large flowering clematis, which nckvilledudes referred to as Type II, or the very common late large flowering clematis. I spoke to an owner of a nursery earlier this year about clematis. They order whatever their supplier has the most of in stock. I have also discovered that even a reputable nursery, one who is very knowledgeable when it comes to trees and shrubs, and even perennials, and one who wants to please their customers, won't know much when it comes to clematis.

Nckvilledudes mentioned the viticellas. If you haven't tried any from the list above, you really should before giving up on clematis. Look at the two photos I posted in the thread titled "selective clematis pests". I think it's the 4th post down. The pink one is Madame Julia Correvon, the purple one is Venaosa Violacea. Although not as large as dinner plates, they are beautiful in their own right and should do very well in your zone.

You aren't not alone. There are a lot of experienced clematis growers in our zone who have given up on the early and late large flowering clematis in favor of the viticellas.

Plainwellcandy,

I understand exactly how you feel. Please see the posting called "Big trouble - pruning different groups" that is on the 2nd page now. You will see some pictures of my Sweet Autumn Clematis which I can pretty much guarantee will grow for you if you have the room. :~))

Anyway, at the bottom of the responses is a discussion of pruning group type 2 clems and the problems that I have had with them. Most of them DIE, some quickly of wilt, some more slowly with lots of dieback and the biggest most unsatisfactory thing is that most of them have VERY LITTLE BLOOM!

I now grow type 3s pretty much exclusively and have about 2 dozen of them. The viticellas are by far the easiest to get going well and bloom profusely. The late blooming large flowered type 3s take a good 4 to 5 years to bloom profusely for me, but they eventually get there. The vits have more blooms in the first year than any of my type 2s ever did and by year three, I can hack most of them back mid-season knowing they'll keep blooming, to keep them in their space & from drowning other perennials that I would like to see bloom.

Now I feel that the reason so many of us up here quit on clematis is because most of the local nurseries here only carry the large flowered clematis, usually the Early ones which are Type 2 & very difficult to grow here, with a few Late Flowering Type 3s, less difficult to grow but quite slow to establish well here. You will see some Sweet Autumns (type 3 & very vigorous late season & tiny-flowered) and an occasional Etoile Violette (viticella type 3 with smaller dark purple flowers) & that's it.

I would highly recommend that you toss out any Type 2s you have that are not performing well and go online to some place like Chalk Hill and order several viticellas. I would suggest that you try Mme Julia Correvon, Betty Corning, or Polish Spirit (sometimes listed as a vit, sometimes not). All these are easy and quick to bloom.

Polish Spirit

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Mme Julia Correvon, small lavender bells are Betty Corning, I have to keep cutting her off Julia. Betty is down the fence a bit and nearly 4 ft wide with layers of bells all the way down to the ground!

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This is a Large Late Flowering type 3 called Comtesse de Bouchard. Took 5 years to get her up this tree and blooming well, but pretty spectacular now.

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Here is a link that might be useful: Chalk Hill

Nurseries often order what is flashy and showy at the time the nurseries are in full swing with everyone wanting to get out in their yards. In most zones, this means they order the clematis which will be in bloom at that time which are type IIs. Some nurseries even don't know anything about clematis and how hardy and floriferous the later blooming clematis (many of the type IIIs including the viticellas) are hence they carry the type IIs.

Brushwood Nursery and Silver Star Vinery both have great plants at great prices. Brushwood's are quart size and cheaper since shipping is included. Silver Star Vinery's are gallon sized and cost more due to the size of the rootball and the cost of shipping. Either plants do well in my garden so I would suggest ordering from them.

Polish Spirit is a viticella regardless of whether listed as such or not. Check out John Howell's book on the Carefree Viticellas or any other reputable clematis book.

Listed below is a link to a list of clematis recommended for beginners to help insure success with clematis in their gardens. It was composed by Bill Bird who used to post on this forum and is a member of the International Clematis Society. He helped me out tremendously when I first got enthralled with these climbers.

On the linked page on the left hand side are categories that, when clicked, will open up to list subcateg

Here is a link that might be useful: List for Beginners

Leslie, Is the tree a Canada Red Cherry? I have one and was thinking of pairing it with a pink clematis. The combination is perfect!

Janet,

It's a purple sandcherry (Prunus cistena), actually kind of flimsy for a clematis. The clematis sort of wraps up and pulls down the tree branches. When the clemmie was only a few stems it wasn't much of a problem, but now I think I will prune the clematis back a lot as soon as bloom is done, so the tree branches can grow UP again! But it has looked pretty glorious for about a month now.

Plainwell candy-Don't give up. I almost did as I spent too many years and dollars doing what you did- Always bought from the best local nursey and also I kept trying to get a clematis to grow on my mailbox with no success. One day my DH came home with a little box from BJs with 3 little clems inside for $6.00. I just laughed at him expecting failure.
He planted them and they have now thrived for years.
Since then every year I buy two or three little clems and I put them different places in my gardens and I cross my fingers. I now have over 30 clems and some of them stop traffic. BTW, I gave up on the mailbox thing and have since discovered- My clems were burning there right near the cemented post. Now if I could only get that stand of White foxgloves that lives in my mind's eye.

I'm not home, so I can't post pics of my type II's but I have many more type II's than III's, I love them, won't tell people to not grow them, love that many bloom twice a year.
However, they have to start out correctly.

IMHO the key to them is to hard prune the dang things every single year until they really get some good growth on. Pinching them back as they grow too.

You've got spindly vines that aren't blooming much because they have not been hard pruned in early spring.

My other recommendation is to NOT buy tiny little 2" or 4" plants.

Leslie, last year I got rid of my purple leaf sand cherry because it was so buggy. It doesn't look like yours is bothered much by chewing insects.

My purple leaf plum, a close relative to the sand cherry is devastated by aphids this year. The new growth is all contorted and curled and looks awful. It often gets leaf blights too. Not a really healthy group of trees.

I have never had a bug problem on my purple sandcherry. I bought mine more than a half dozen years ago because I wanted the color and it was cheap! Sometimes you get lucky.

BTW, I prune the heck out of mine - as I do to most of the other ornamental trees and shrubs in my backyard. It's a small yard with lots of plantings so I am always lopping branches off. The sandcherry is kept wide going east to west and narrow (3 ft max - so it won't intrude on the lawn path) north to south. Almost an espalier.

You probably get cold enough to kill everything in winter. Here, all of the ornamental plums, cherries, pears and the fruit bearing ones and apples too are all susceptible to a wide range of diseases and pests.

This Type II, Daniel Deronda, was hard pruned the first three years and every other year after. Still has blooms like this months after this photo was taken. It grows up the arbor out of the picture, it spraws out on the spirea too.

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