That's a little bit of a complicated question to answer :-) Species clematis are those which occur naturally or have not been crossed with another species/hybrid. 'Frankie' is a cultivar of Clematis alpina, a species. Hybrids are plants that have been created (sometimes naturally) by crossing two or more different species or hybrids.

Species clematis tend to have smaller, often pendulous or nodding bell-shaped flowers rather than the large, outward facing flat flowers of many hybrids. Other than the fact that most species are resistant or not inclined to clematis wilt and tend to be rather robust growers, the vast majority want similar planting and growing conditions to any hybrid. Personally, I would not treat them any differently than the LFH's (large flowered hybrids).

FYI, species clematis will have 2-3 parts to their name: Clematis (genus); a second species name (i.e., alpina, macropetala, armandii, integrifolia, etc.) and many times another name in single quotes - the cultivar name. Hybrids will have only two parts: the genus Clematis and the cultivar name in single quotes (i.e., 'Multi Blue', 'The President', 'Niobe', etc.). Often there is an 'x' in between the genus and cultivar name indicating it is a crossed or hybrid plant, but just as often this is omitted.

You're not suppose to spread or disturb roots on any clematis unless it is bareroot. Clem roots are different than trees, shrubs & other perennials. The feeder roots are the white tips at the bottom of the root & are easily damaged & you could set back your clem if you try to untangle them. Read about this from a clematis nurseryman. He also recommends you plant your type (atragene - type 1/A) only 2" deeper than it is in the pot. Others get planted deeper. He has been growing clems for 40 yrs so I would definitely take his advice. When Jeanne reads this, she can verify what I have read.

I've planted all my Atragenes deeper than that and I have roughed up my root balls on all of my Clematis when I plant them.

Atragenes do really well for me.

Thanks for the great information!!
Ginny

I agree with BorS - I plant ALL my clems deep and regularly rough up the rootball. Have never lost one yet from planting methods nor from disturbing or bare rooting the rootball at transplanting, which I've done countless times. btw, I grow more type 1's or species clematis than I do hybrids....just prefer them :-) And you should see how they treat clematis at the large wholesale grower I worked for (the one that supplies most of your favorite west coast mail order sources) - when you grow 20-30,000 vines a season, there's no special treatment of any kind regardless of type and they are repotted several times before they are ready for sale. These plants are not delicate - species are even tougher than most of the hybrids - and they can take that handling with ease.

I was just looking at some Clems in the yard yesterday and thinking that I need to rip out some large flowered hybrids that don't do squat even after years and replace with more Atragenes. They seem to not mind my clay soil. Planted side by side they are doing better in some locations. I'm about ready to shovel prune 'Josephine'!

I gave alpina 'Willy' and macropetala 'Rosy O'Grady' away because their colors were too pale for me but 'Tage Lundell' , 'Ruby' and 'Helsingborg' are gorgeous. I really need to upload all the pics I've taken.

I'm so sorry that 'Betty's Beetroot Beauty' from Chalkhill was DOA, just can't find that one anywhere.

Pampered container growing in a nursery is alot different than a garden setting & can't see how that could compare. The key words 'set back' not kill is coming into play. I should have been clearer on that. There are always a ton of posts here on why there clems didn't pop up this year, could contribute to planting depth & size of roots as well. My experience: I planted all of mine w/o disturbing the root system & not once have I experienced wilt or other common complaints. Well, outside of florida var. seiboldiana, but that is whole different animal. IE, planted 2 Walenburgs from the same nursery, same quality, same root size. 1 is coming back like gangbusters, the other the root ball fell apart at planting time, guess which one is struggling? I do have a 2 from the Chalk Hill sale that aren't great, but that is because of the size of the roots.

I will still take the advice of a person that has been growing clems for 40 yrs, obviously he knows what he is doing if he has been doing it successfully for that long.

Pampered container growing in a nursery ????

Obviously you have never toured a wholesale growing operation. There is NOTHING 'pampering' about it!! The handling these plants receive is just this side of brutal, yet they endure and even thrive. They certainly receive much more handling and root disturbance than they do in a more or less permanent garden setting. And to be clear, this is a very large wholesale grower of clematis and other vines and one that supplies countless retail nurseries and as stated, many well-known mail order clematis sources. They know what the heck they are doing.

I'm not sure who you got your information from nor do I think it particularly relative to this discussion. The vast majority of clematis resources, including well-recognized growers and breeders like Raymond Evison, recommend a deeper planting depth for any clematis. It increases cold tolerance, encourages additional shooting from the root crown which provides protection/insurance against damage of the fragile stems and seems to reduce the instance of wilt in those clematis that are prone to it - species clematis are not.

We all have different experiences to share. Mine, as well as a good many others, is that the majority of species clematis tend to be tough customers. I do not pamper my vines.......in some cases I could be considered to be pretty negligent in their treatment:-) I do not treat my species clematis any different than I do any of the hybrids, nor has my experience - and I've been growing clematis myself for the better part of 30 years - indicated any need to. Again, I think too many myths abound with the "mystique" of growing clematis that are just unfounded. These are far tougher, hardier and more durable plants than most would have us believe.

Look thru the majority of the posts here on GW on JUST the 1st page! Lack of success, give up, why has it not shown up, why did it wilt? If they are all that freakin hardy, why are there so many people complaining?! You still can't compare container growing with growing in ground with as many different types of soil out there that people are dealing with. It is ignorant of you to think that everyone's conditions are the same as yours. Container soil is a heck of alot differnet than growing in ground & if you still compare that as equivalent you are doubly ignorant. Treat them as rough as you will, but they were certainly be pampered in there container soil than the will be in the MAJORITY of people's soil out there. If one can give them the extra benefit of not teasing the roots to get them established quicker, what the heck is the problem?! As a nursery person I would expect someone to do what ever they could to see people succeed & your advice of rough handling I do not see for your average everyday gardner.

Lack of success, give up, why has it not shown up, why did it wilt? If they are all that freakin hardy, why are there so many people complaining?!

1)They didn't plant it correctly to begin with, 2)they didn't provide the proper aftercare and 3)they didn't select a wilt-resistant variety. These ARE hardy plants - species even more so than the hybrids - but they can't just be stuck in the ground and forgotten except for the occasional watering, like you can with most perennials and shrubs.

I will admit to ignorance in a lot of areas, but not when it comes to the growing and care of clematis. And more to the point, my advice to ginnyginny still stands - plant the species in the same manner you do the hybrids and provide the same aftercare, at least for the first full season.

Thanks to all for your input. When I am teaching something at work I often say "there is no one right answer for anything in this world." Gardening has showed me that the first time I heard rose experts and dahlia experts on opposite poles about fertilizing.

I am about to go plant poor Frankie who has been sitting around, getting root bound for 9 months. I never re-potted it after getting it from Chalk Hill. I am such a procrastinator!! I have kept it watered and fertilized a little.

Ginny

A few years ago I was exchanging emails with Maurice Rosen (of Chalk Hill) on why they had changed their potting medium. It was a mix of clay and large aerators like perlite, which had the effect of having the potting medium fall off the roots when you tried to transplant.

He said that though others might not believe him, he'd found it was better to remove the potting medium from clematis roots, spread them out, cut back the stems as needed and let them establish themselves in the soil they were going to grow in.

I certainly don't always do this, but there's another point of view for everyone.