I have grown Victoria and Piilu. Victoria is a very easy type III that blooms quite profusely. Piilu has been in the garden for about 5 years now and also blooms profusely but as with most type IIs in my southern garden, it browns out very badly in the summer. I typically treat it as a type III and prune it to within a foot or so of the ground (just got finished pruning all my clematis yesterday as a matter of fact). As a result, I have never gotten the double blooms on it that you can get, but the single ones are quite attractive anyway. You hopefully won't have the browning out issue as far north as you live however.

Thanks, Nckvilledudes, for your response. Victoria seems to be a very nice pinky lavendar in the pictures, so she's in. And actually, I do get some browning out in late July, as it can get quite hot and dry here, and I suppose I have been known to slack off on the watering. But Piilu is just so pretty in the photos, I will take a chance on her, especially since you say she's a good bloomer. The only other Type II I have is Snow Queen, a real beauty when she blooms late spring/early summer, but even after pruning back when she's done flowering, I have never, in 5 years, had the second flush.
Anyone else familiar with the rest of the clematis on my list?
Judith

Judith, I have had Guernsey Cream for two years, have yet to see a flower.
It grows, buds up and then wilts.
If it does it again next spring I will chuck it.

Maggie, I appreciate the warning. Now maybe I will have to reconsider Guernsey Cream. Even though I prune my type II's after planting, I still usually see some flowers later on in that first summer. Anyone else have this wilting problem with GC? Thanks.
Judith

Judith, just realize that one person can have a good experience with regards to wilt and vigor on any specific cultivar and another person can have the exact opposite experience with it. Such are the vagaries of growing most plants so if Guernsey Cream is a clematis you really want, then get it and see how it does in your garden. It might be a star performer for you. Experience with a specific cultivar in your own garden is the best way to determine how it will perform for you.

You're right, nckvilledudes, every garden IS different. I really love the pictures I've seen of it, and so, what the heck! I'll give it a try. I have only had wilt on one clematis, an unnamed type II given to me by my sister. It was a big division from a very old plant, so maybe it was just tired? Clematis are a lot like roses - my experiences differ a lot from other gardeners, and other areas.
Thanks for the good advice.
Judith

I just planted GC last year..am growing it as a container grown clematis (a drip system) on my new pergola..will gladly share my experience next year if reminded..LOL..I, also hard prune my pruning group 2's the following year after planting to get 'em going!!...Jeanne

Thanks, Jeanne, for the pruning tip. I usually only hard-prune my group II's the year I plant them, and then sort of trim a little after that. I'll try cutting them back again the second spring and see if that bulks them up.
Don't worry, I WILL remind you next year LOL
Judith

Miguel, I have read that some clematis that do a lot of wilting the first few years can grow out of it as they mature.
Have you had any experience of this happening?

I would also be interested in the answer to Maggiepie's question about wilt lessening in a plant as it matures. That would make a bit more bearable, just knowing that there's a light at the end of the tunnel:) I had mentioned above that I had experienced wilt only once, on a division from my sister's very old, unnamed clematis (I think it might be 'Serenata'). She also had it happen on the mother plant this summer. Could it be more prevalent with BOTH very old and very young plants? Thanks in advance for your expert opinion!
Judith

Oh yeah, and I almost forgot my original question LOL Anyone grow the other three on my list - Ice Blue, Jenny and Maria Cornelia? Thanks.
Judith

Helen, I don't grow many type IIs so the issue of wilt is not one that I have had to deal with. That being said, I have heard that quite a few people growing type IIs say it does seem to decrease as the plants mature. There is one theory about wilt that says that it happens as a proactive response in those plants that produce too much top growth compared to root growth so the plant wilts to allow the roots to catch up with the top growth and so that the roots can support all the top growth. The issue might be lessened by treating type IIs as type IIIs the first couple of years in the ground so that the root system can mature to support all the top growth.

Judith, Maria Cornelia just became available here in the US within the past year. As a result, there might not be too many people that have had it a sufficient length of time to be able to offer long term info on it and its growth habits.

Thanks Miguel. I guess I will be one of the people, then, who will test it out, and let you all know how she does!
Judith

Of the list I grow both Guernsey Cream and Josephine. GC is one of my favorites.......very early to bloom in my garden, perhaps the first of the Type 2's. Lots of big, creamy white flowers and bright yellow boss of stamens. I get a small rebloom, but nothing like the first flush. I think it is one of the best of the white or pale colored LFH's.

Josephine is rather new to me and I grow it as a container plant. So far, very nice - reliably double, all season.

Regarding wilt, I'd second Miguel's surmise that proper planting techniques, hard pruning and maturity will put a stop to this problem. A good many of my Type 2 clematis I acquired as returns to the retail nursery I used to work at......we had a very liberal return policy and often the vines came back "dead" due to wilt. Not so!! I and other employees took the rejected vines home (couldn't resell them) and they prospered with a little TLC. I can honestly say I have never personally permanently lost a clematis to wilt: plant them deeply, cut back hard for the first couple of seasons and they eventually outgrow the problem, usually by their 5th year.

Thanks, gardengal. I am also thinking of growing Josephine in a container, at least for this year. Good to know she performs so well there.
Guernsey Cream is sounding better and better, especially since it blooms so early. It will be very exciting.
I have learned a lot the last couple of years on this forum from our resident experts (you know who you are!), especially the hard pruning of BOTH type II's and type III's. I regret not knowing about that technique when I planted my first clematis ten years ago. It has made a big difference. The only clematis I've ever had wilt on (2 years in a row. last year and this year) is that old division from my sister, which was my first clematis. Don't know why it's happening now, after all these years. It's a mystery. Hopefully this summer it will somehow escape it.

Judith

Judith, I have Jenny but only got it mid summer last year and it was tiny.
Am just hoping it survives winter.

Maggie, I sure hope it survives the winter for you. It's supposed to be hardy to zone 4, so you should be o.k.
We will check in with each other this summer on her progress!
Judith

I have grown GC and it is one of my most beautiful with a sparse rebloom. Ice Blue was in it's first year but had a very long blooming season.

Thanks, Sharon. Another vote for GC! Good to hear about Ice Blue's long bloom period, the flowers look stunning in the photos. I don't know how I'm going to survive the long wait until spring!
Judith

I have two Josephine in my new garden. Neither have been in the ground for more than a season & half. Both have bloomed. It is a heavy blooming spectacular clematis.

I have Josephine and Piilu. I have not had any wilt problems with them. Piilu bloomed very well even though I just planted it and hard pruned it. It is going to be stunning when it matures.

2009 will be year 3 for Josephine and 2 for Piilu.

Thank you, Tansy! I really hope mine turns out to be as wonderful as yours. I ordered it in memory of my late mom, whose name was Josephine. Sounds as if it will be very special, in many ways.
Judith

Josephine is a sturdy, vigorous type II that happily blooms on old wood as well as new. Highly recommended.

Piilu is a shorter plant (1.5 meters in my zone) and is incredibly floriferous even if I never see the double blooms. This is an issue with my zone more than anything else.

Maria Cornelia is adored by those who have planted it. It will be an easy to grow viticella.

Victoria is also a vigorous prune-to-the-ground type III with viticella blood.

Keep in mind that all of these will perform better in full sun in Montreal. While it is true that the 1st two bloom on old as well as new wood, the suggestions to cut to the ground for the first year or two are good, though I often ignore that out of impatience and instead cut them back when I plant them.

Older plants tend to be more "resistant" to wilt issues because the stems they send up become thicker and crack less, providing a barrier to pathogens. Sometimes clematis stems wilt due to what Miguel was implying: the top growth outgrows what the roots can provide. This wilting has nothing to do with the pathogen that causes clematis wilt, though it looks similar and is similarly irritating.

Michael, thanks so much for all your observations, especially about Josephine being highly recommended. That makes me very happy:) I don't really mind about ever seeing Piilu's double flowers either - I just love the colour and the fact that there are tons of flowers is very exciting! I love the photos I have seen of Maria Cornelia, and am very anxious to see it bloom. I am thrilled so far with any viticellas I have grown, and since they are less likely to get wilt, well, all the better.
Most of my new order will have to be planted in partial shade; I really have no choice. The neighbour's house, and large trees, have unfortunately cast a half-day's shade on the south side of my garden. I realize I won't get as much bloom as if they were in full sun, but it will be better than not having them at all!
As for my old clematis having wilt, if it happens again this summer, out it will come. There are just too many wonderful plants to take its place.
Judith

Judith, I love to pics I've seen of Maria Cornelia. Can I ask where you are getting your order from ? and please let us know how all your new clems do this summer.

Joan

Hi Joan,
Don't worry, I'll be posting plenty this summer - I have ordered many more clematis this year than I have room for! But somehow, by hook or by crook, I find a spot for them!
I ordered Maria Cornelia from Garden Import, along with several others. They have a nice selection. I also found a few new ones (for me) at Lindenburg Seeds, but these I know will be much smaller plants and will be grown on in containers. GI sends nice, well-rooted plants in pots, although they are a little pricey. Have fun checking out their site, and good luck resisting:0)
Judith

Hi Judith, where did you see clematis at Lindenburg Seeds?
Are they listed in hard copy catalogue?
They don't have any listed on their website as yet.

Helen

I love my GC. She grows quite well and under a large pine tree and next to an old forsythia. Also, Duchess of Albany grows there as well as Serenata. They are also under a skyline honey locust tree, but they benefit from my koi pond water when I change it with fresh well water. I've also had it grow new plants by it naturally layering itself and rooting.

Karalyn, your GC sounds like a pretty tough plant. In my garden, with lots of partial shade and competition from other plants, it will have to be! That is good news, because delicate divas will not make it here LOL
Helen, I have a hard copy catalogue, since their website is still under construction. Email me if you want their phone number and the list of clematis they carry. You can then just order them directly if you're interested. They also have a few unusual (to me anyway) perennials (I also ordered some geraniums that I've never seen before). Like I said, they may be very small plants, and this is my first time ordering live plant material from them. I have read good reviews on their other products and customer service. I look at it as an experiment. You never know until you try.
Judith

Judith, I emailed you a few days ago, did you receive the mail?

If not, I would love to have a list of the clematis they sell etc
Thanks again,
Helen

Hi Helen,
Nope, I didn't get your email. That happens here sometimes, when you send through GW.
Here is a list of the clems they sell, in 3-l/2 inch pots, I think, at $9.49 each ($9.49 3 or more, $8.99 for 6 or more):

4445 - Bees Jubilee - mauve pink with deeper bar
4153 - Blue Dancer - nodding pale blue
4150 - Jackmanii - dark violet purple
4154 - Gillian Blades - wavy white, tinged blue
4151 - Abundance - reddish pink, veined
4450 - Mme Julie Correvan - wine red, star shaped
4444 - Paniculata - clusters of open white flowers
4152 - Pink Chiffon - pale mauve pink, purple antlers
4443 - Tangutica - yellow, lantern shaped blooms

I will be planting mine in pots to grow on a little, and plant them in the garden late summer-early fall. It all depends on what they look like when I get them.

Their phone number is: 204-727-0575, if you want to order that way, and also maybe if you need some information.

Judith

Thanks Judith, I wouldn't mind a couple of those.

Judith, I think you might want to enlighten them that their item number 4444 is being incorrectly called paniculata. That is a species clematis from New Zealand that won't survive winters in Canada. I betcha a dollar to a doughnut they are selling clematis terniflora except calling it paniculata.

Here is a link that might be useful: The real clematis paniculata

Miguel, I thought the same thing when I saw it was from NZ, but then looking at other sites using a bunch of different names for same plant I got totally confused.

Helen, I have seen clematis paniculata used as a synonymn for clematis terniflora way too often. Anytime I have seen it, I have tried to educate those sellers, whether they be on eBay or other websites selling clematis, that the nomenclature is wrong. I figure if no one else brings it to their attention, that the error will be self-perpetuating. :0)

Thanks so much Miguel - never even noticed, plus I'm still just learning about clematis. I will email them tonight to let them know.
Judith