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bluespruce53

Abies concolor 'Jerry Morris hybrid' - ID update anyone!

bluespruce53
11 years ago

Received this material from Dennis Dodge several years ago, and was wondering if it had been given a valid name since ?

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Comments (27)

  • gardener365
    11 years ago

    I once had that and all I know is that it isn't a plant that Jerry Morris found or named. That's all I know.

    Mine was simply named: 'Jerry Morris'

    Dax

  • bluespruce53
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Cheers Dax, I noticed it looks similar to one called 'Lower Shaded' and wonder if it is the same as that plant ?

  • gardener365
    11 years ago

    Yep, I think 'Lower Road' at the link is the same. Good eye guys.

    Dax

  • bluespruce53
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks Simoni, so now we have 'Lower Road'- 'Lower Shaded' and 'Hybrid Jerry Morris' plus they are lasiocarpa and not concolor ?

  • barbaraincalif
    11 years ago

    Re-read Dax's Dykstra Garden thread. The second-to-the-last posting from Coniferjoy reads:

    RE: Dykstra Garden Iowa USA
    Posted by coniferjoy 10 (info@edwinsmitsconifers.com) on Thu, Dec 13, 12 at 16:34

    ".... I just discovered that the true name for Abies concolor #6 is 'Wyoming South' and not 'Lower road'
    Please check the Jerry Morris Life Monument and look at Abies concolor 'Wyoming South' #6.
    Click at the link and you'll see a simular pic as the 'Lower Road' which it isn't.
    However, as you stated, it's an Abies lasiocarpa and not an Abies concolor.
    So you see, also Jerry can make mistakes...

    Now my question is, what is Abies lasiocarpa 'Lower Road' then?
    Is this the same one as 'Wyoming South' or a totaly differend cultivar..."

    The plot thickens.....

    Barbara

  • whaas_5a
    11 years ago

    Whatever the name, cool looking plant!

  • Embothrium
    11 years ago

    Should never have been called a hybrid, unless somebody had good reason to think it resulted from a crossing of two different plants.

  • mesterhazypinetum
    11 years ago

    It seems to me, that I saw this conifer last year in the Etzelstorfer collection. Its an american one, but Abies lasiocarpa. Franz told me nothing about his origin, and has yet no name.

    {{gwi:608397}}
    Abies lasiocarpa cultivar Mesterhazy & Etzelstorfer photo 2012

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    Abies lasiocarpa cultivar Mesterhazy & Etzelstorfer photo 2012

    {{gwi:608399}}
    Abies lasiocarpa cultivar Mesterhazy & Etzelstorfer photo 2012

    Zsolt

  • whaas_5a
    11 years ago

    Yep, definitely a cool plant.

  • henksgarden
    11 years ago

    I checked this plant and saw that it's needles are typical for Abies lasiocarpa with the stomata bands at the onderside,, while it's buds says Abies concolor.
    It looks like it's a cross between these two species...

  • mesterhazypinetum
    11 years ago

    Dax,
    you do your best to ask Randy and Dennis about the question. Otherwise this plant maybe Jerry's and not, too. I found many conifers in Europe labeled Jerry Morris, and nobody knows weather its true or not.

    This small beauty reminds me anyhow to Pinus sylvestris Compacta Viridis with his strange branchlets and unusual needles. I guess this one may be anyhow juvenile.

    Zsolt

  • coniferjoy
    11 years ago

    Back in the States some research was done by me and Henk about this plant.
    Gary Gee called Dave Horst who was there with Jerry Morris when this plant was found as a seedling.
    There were two simular seedlings found in the same area, Dave named them 'Upper Road' and 'Lower Road'.
    Jerry took also some scions home and named them 'Wyoming North' (#2) and 'Wyoming South' (#6).
    So both men gave it their own names.
    'Lower Shaded' is just another name for 'Lower Road'...

  • bluespruce53
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Edwin, so which is the correct name for the one sent to me as 'Hybrid - Jerry Morris ?

  • mesterhazypinetum
    11 years ago

    Well, I set here the original description of Jerry for both plants.

    Abies concolor Wyoming North # 2
    Found in South Wyoming 2 firs, that could be concolor, very compact, green, but upright. North tree of two. JM text.
    We have no photos

    Abies concolor Wyoming South # 6
    Concolor fir of different looks from typical upright, skirts turn up and grow upward, south tree of two. JM text.
    I think all photos here are of # 6.

    Finally I photographed at Franz also in 2011 this beauty

    {{gwi:616566}}

    I think Jerry knows, if he finds what in a concolor forest, that must be concolor. Even with unusual growth. But I think this unusual look may cause, that we are ready to speak about hybrid.

    I guess we killed all secrets with a teamwork.

    Zsolt

  • coniferjoy
    11 years ago

    Stephen, it's very hard to tell which one you have.
    This is because we only have two discriptions which are not very clear to the differences between both these plants.
    Unfortunately we don't have photo's of the original one's either...

  • bluespruce53
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Edwin, so my plant could be one or the other ? :o)

  • texjagman
    11 years ago

    I think you should tag it.....Middle of the Road :-)

    mark

  • mesterhazypinetum
    11 years ago

    I vote for Wyoming North # 2 - so we win a newly documented conifer.. :)

    Before cutting in two, you can ask Dennis, then Dave Horst weather he has what in the pochet - knows which one or made photo at finding.

    Zsolt

  • PRO
    David Olszyk, President, American Conifer Society
    11 years ago

    here's my 2 cents. . . .

    I believe that this cultivar could very well be an Abies lasiocarpa x concolor hybrid. The needles are the correct color with the banding that is indicative of lasiocarpa. However the needles are also very long, fine and fluffy like a concolor.

    Regardless, it's an amazing little tree that needs to be more widely known. Is it a correct assumption that Randy Dykstra has potientially the only specimen in the U.S.? If that's the case, I'd like to figure out how to get some scions. Are any of you midwest guys close to him personally and geographically?

    ~Dave

  • kbguess
    11 years ago

    Dave

    Sent you email through GW

    Keith

  • coniferjoy
    11 years ago

    Stephen, it could be one or the other indeed.
    For sure is that both cultivars are a cross between Abies concolor and Abies lasiocarpa.
    The buds are typical for Abies concolor, the needles for Abies lasiocarpa.
    It's to bad that Dennis gave it to you under an obscure name...

    Gary Gee of Gee Farms got some scions of both plants which were grafted recently.
    In a couple of years it could be more clear what the differences are between both these cultivars.

  • bluespruce53
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Edwin, I'm sure that's the name Dennis must have had for it at that time. I also got the one that came to me as 'Lower Shaded' that one is only a two year graft tho, so I don't know which is which, I guess we will have to wait and see if the originators can sort this confusion out sooner or later.

  • kbguess
    11 years ago

    I got to visit with Randy Dykstra this past weekend and he gave his recollection on the two plants.

    They were discovered by Dave Horst in 1997 while hunting in Wyoming. Dave collected scion for Randy. and named them. Dave named them 'Lower Road' and 'By Road'. The pictures in the thread are all 'Lower Road'.

    Randy was the only grafter who got original scion from Dave. Randy didn't know anything about the Jerry Morris end. I will email Dave and see if he can tell me more about that end.

    A picture of 'By Road' should emailed to me soon & I will post it. After 25 years, it isn't much more than a stick. Randy says that it often fails to produce buds on terminals so branches die out.

    I think we are getting closer to the whole story. Dave Horst will help close some of the gaps.

    Keith

    This post was edited by kbguess on Mon, Mar 25, 13 at 11:05

  • kbguess
    11 years ago

    This is 'By Road' -- Randy's original 1997 graft. Only had a low resolution cell photo, but gives a good idea of form
    keith

  • coniferjoy
    11 years ago

    Keith, thanks for your info!
    The strange thing is here that Dave told to Gary Gee that Jerry Morris was there at that moment when both the strange seedlings were found.
    Also the names 'Upper Road' and 'Lower Road' were mentiond then, not 'By Road'...
    I hope you can solve this problem for us!

  • mesterhazypinetum
    10 years ago

    In June I photographed a baby Abies concolor Wyoming North alias # 2 or Upper Road at Malik.

    Here is a link that might be useful:

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