cool looking ...

but something took its top off ... with all those leaders up there ...

have you been up close and personal with it ... any chance it might be one of the weeping picea omorika ... serbian spruce... rather than a pungens ... they also tend toward bluish ... compare at link ...

if it is.. its one of the oldest ones i have ever seen ....

ANYthing is worth trying a graft or two ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Ken,

You could be right. I remember when I last looked up close at it this fall I thought 100% blue spruce, but now taking a close look at the pics maybe it is a Picea omorika. In my memory the new foliage didn't have the striations like the omorika on the underside of the needles, but then again......

I was thinking it may have broken off at one time too.

If it is an omorika I would be very curious how the home owner came across one so many years back in Iowa. The original home owners have moved so might never find out!

Bruce

Picea pungens...I've seen others just like it (minus the cropped top). Not sure if it's a common mutation or a named variety.

Yes: I would do a lot more checking before I decided this was not a clone of a plant that had been on the market. First thing to do would be to look at the bottom to see if it was a graft.

Even if it is somehow determined that it is a random weeping seedling it should be established that it represents a significant departure from existing introductions before it is named and propagated.

I don't think it does.

Bruce,

There are probably 1,000 just like that on the streets of Denver, alone.

Dax

Dax,

Are those straight species or a named variety? Just curious. Thanks to everyone for the feedback!

I've been putting together my order from Iseli over the last couple weeks. Managed to grab a few of the Picea obovata 'Arctos' they have just released. Imagine a Norway Spruce with bright blue-grey needles and hardy to at least zone 2. Supposedly will be a great replacement for many of the blue spruce cultivars that have been plagued by disease. I've attached a pic.

Bruce

In background of picture (I think) is the newer selection Picea omorika 'Silberblue"

Got a few in a couple years back- very impressive selection.

Bruce

Thanks Bruce, for hipping me to that spruce! Never heard of em, but I'm sure going to investigate now!

+oM

Bruce, is that photo from Iseli then? Just did a quick search and there's a paucity of info on this cultivar, although I smacked my forehead lightly upon reacquanting myself with Siberian spruce generally!

Then let's say yes, those are Iseli's trees in that pic: Are these grafted plants, or is that the appearance of an actual land race or naturally occurring variety of Siberian spruce?

Could be quite the item, for more general landscape use, if a full-sized version can have that foliage. I'm sure some dwarfish stuff is or will be available. But I'm talking full-size trees.

+oM

Hi Bruce: seedlings, not grafts. I found a weeping blue Coloardo spruce a few years ago that's none different from that one, semi-locally. Unfortunately... they really are a dime a dozen.

Dax

The stakes would point to them having been grafted. Also the uniformity implies it is a clone.

No info at Iseli. I have little interest in garden conifers per se, but if this thing would size up like species P. abies, plus develop roughly the same cascading branchlets off of semi-upright branches, ie. normal Norway spruce growth form-in that color! T'would be something. Not "better" than NS-I already love the dark moss-green of that species-, just another nice impressive look.

+oM

Yes, the Picea obovata 'Arctos' (means Blue Bear in Russian is what I was told) is a grafted plant and not a seed strain. The photo above is the photo from Iseli's field.

From what our salesman told me it has even smaller needles compared to typical Norway Spruce but otherwise resembles the species very closely. Interesting in that in testing for hardiness of the straight species apparently trees have been completely frozen in liquid nitrogen and came out of it just fine. Potentially it is hardy to zone 1, maybe even -60 or -70.

Limited numbers this year- I picked up 3 of the 4-5' trees.

They just released 15 more of the 3-4' trees but I don't have space to keep a bunch in stock.

I can only imagine if the tree lives up to the description it will become very popular in the trade. Apparently there was one planted at Bickelhaupt about 4 years ago and so far no winter burn, fast growth, and shapes up almost exactly like a Norway.

Bruce

Thanks Bruce. I suppose it was too much to hope for that this would turn out to be a "seed strain', land race, or what have you! For the hobbyist, and more generally, for use as a specimen plant, yes, I can see the potential for a bright future for this cultivar. Not my area of interest where conifers are concerned (mostly), but will be good for many folks.

+oM

Arktos is Greek for bear, hence Arctostaphylos (bear + bunch of grapes) for the genus of manzanitas.

Here is a link that might be useful: Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, á¼ÏκÏοÏ

This post was edited by bboy on Fri, Jan 9, 15 at 14:41

Thanks for the advice.

So far in my experience with Iseli I have yet to run into root trouble. Plants like these will be grown and harvested B&B and then established into a container for one year. Gives a great root system and quick establishment back into the landscape. They are the only supplier where I have never had an issue with a poor root system (other than three 4' 'Gold Cone' Junipers grown B&B and and squished at the bottom of the delivery truck!). Best part is that they are very agreeable if something arrives and is not top quality.

Of course I don't purchase anything in less than a #6 container. While there may be variability from supplier to supplier I have often had trouble with the #1 or #3 containers (plants grown too long in them or with too large a top for the root system to support when planted out.)

My preference would be for everything to be grown B&B and re-established for a year in container (even for shade trees).

Bruce

What I see on grafted stock (coniferous and deciduous) at outlets here is corkscrew roots at the base of the stem (often visible above the top of the potting soil) dating from when root-stocks were left sitting in bands or other small containers too long before being grafted upon. Lining these grafts out in a field later will have no effect on this unless the roots are pulled open and kept open at planting. Likewise roots having been made out into larger containers later does not mean there is not badly deformed roots back inside, near the trunk, dating from when the stock was kept under-potted. Unless you have been bare-rooting at planting it seems you haven't really been in a position to know for sure the complete situation with each specimen. I have thrown out expensive grafted conifers form Oregon nurseries because I have found at planting the roots were so bad I really couldn't see how a secure (well-rooted and wind-firm/snow-tolerant) and persisting specimen was going to be possible - and it never occurred to me to attempt to take them back to the garden center, point out they were defective merchandise and ask for a credit. Probably no improvement in what is clearly widespread bad practice is going to occur unless and until numbers of retail customers start doing just that. In the meantime woody ornamental plants are in a down cycle, with fewer people buying them in the first place.

This post was edited by bboy on Fri, Jan 9, 15 at 15:03

Quite right, B. Now, back to the origins of the scion material; Is it not reasonable to suspect that wild populations of P.obovata exist which have this foliage color? Now that would be something worth developing (in my opinion)....a seed strain-I know, that's not the greatest term-which could be brought to market in which many if not most individuals would have this shade of color. It all depends on your focus,. but I'd rather plant a thousand of something up at my land, although the lone specimen plant can be satisfying too.

I'm not travelling to Siberia any time soon. It's plenty cold right here! But if such an item should ever become available, or if such an item is available.....well, that would be something!

+oM

Just some additional info on Picea obovata 'Arctos'. Since Bruce posted the above photo, I have been trying to hunt down more information about this impressive cultivar. Turns out, an intern that worked at Iseli brought the original plant to them several years ago as a chance seedling of Picea obovata.

They have been observing it for several years and will be starting to ramp up production releases of the cultivar this year. As mentioned above, it's absurdly hardy (Z1), and has demonstrated an 8" inch annual growth rate on the center leader in PNW, so probably 5" or less in the rest of the country... It has a nice, full, pyramidal form, which Iseli believes is going to become a very popular replacement to P. pungens in areas of the country that struggle with that species. Hoping to obtain one this fall, but defiantly limited supply right now.

I agree Dax. Based on that photo I was figuring 12"+. I'm not sure who responded to me from Iseli, maybe a sales rep with low ball growth rates

To get them going for sure there won't be a lot of growth but later, yes.

Dax