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Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seedling
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Posted by yaslan 8 WA (yaslan72@comcast.net) on Thu, Jan 28, 10 at 14:27
| Hello,
If anyone has a Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seedling, I'd be most interested. Please let me know of your price.
Thanks ~ Bo |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Pinus contorta 'Golden Striker' from John Proudfoot in Scotland....priceless !! |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| do you want the actual grafted conifer.. or do you want a seedling??? try coenosium nursery if you want the real thing .... ken ps: i dont have any extras |
Here is a link that might be useful: link
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Bo, looks like you're in Washington. Bob and Dianne Fincham own and operate Coenosium Gardens near Eatonville(about an hour from Seattle). He has both gallon sized 'Chief Joseph's' as well as 3 and 5 gallon size plants. The 5 gallon plants are awesome. I don't recall the prices, but for the quality and size plants, they offer a good value. -Will |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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Thanks Will & Ken. The Coenosium Gardens near Eatonville is a few hours from me. Perhaps I shall need to make a visit this summer or just go to their website.
I was hoping someone had a small seedling. I know the 3 & 5 gallon will be a bit pricier than I'd like to pay for. |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Bo, depending on your source, small seedlings usually run from $40-60. They can be as young as one year grafts as well. 'Chief Joseph' is a much-coveted, hard to find cultivr. Happy hunting! |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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Will, Porterhowse Farms in Sandy, OR have 2 to 3 year old grafted plants of Pinus contorta 'Chief Joseph' available in #1 pots for $60 each. Also, the owner has access to the original stock of plants in various sizes,with some reaching up to 8 feet. The man who found the original plant out near Joseph, OR is a neighbor of his.
I was hoping I'd get lucky here and someone would have a chief joseph seedling for $20-$30 bucks. But it looks like I might have to go to porterhowse. Or I think Standley and Son's nursery might have them too. |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| come on guys.. words mean things ... C Jo is a GRAFTED CONIFER .... it is NOT a seedling ... bo .. this is one of the most sought after.. hard to graft yellow plants on the market ... [actually the grafting is easy .. its getting them to live that is the hard part ... lol] ... you will NOT find it on the cheap ... if you get a cone off a mature CJ ... and spend 5 years growing all the seed in it.. you MIGHT get a yellow seedling out of it ... and if someone else has done that.. you will still have to pony up some significant $$$ for the seedling ... come on .. admit it .... if you are looking for CJ .. you have been bitten by the conifer bug.. may as well learn the terms .. good luck ken |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| I'd second the recommendation for Coenosium Gardens. What's better than conifer shopping from your couch. Excellent packing, quality plants. 
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Here is a link that might be useful: Coenosium Gardens
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Ken, Thank you for taking the time to correct my terminology. I am a big fan of the written language and believes as you do, that words do mean things. I also have to admit I have bitten by the conifer bug. ( : ~Bo |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Wow, Dave, that is an awesome Sciadopitys you received from Bob. Is that the straight species or is it a cultivar? I love sciadopitys, but we are really too cold for the plant to survive here, even though sciadopitys is sometimes listed as a zone 4 conifer (it's really not at all.) Thanks for posting the photos.
Mike |
Thanks Dave
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| Dave, Great pics! Thanks for posting. They're very nicely packaged. And your conifers look healthy too. |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Yes, I am always pleased with Bob's plants and Diane's packing job, both are choice. Neither were pot bound and had none of the circling root problems I see in larger potted stock. The CJ is in the 5" pot and the Sciadopitys verticillata 'Wintergreen' is 1gal. I too was worried about it's hardiness, even in my z5, but saw an awesome specimen at Rich's Fox Willow Pines, 4 hours north of me that just wouldn't fit in the truck. Had room for plenty of other conifers though. In z5, worth a try I think, z4 is probably too cold. |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Bo, even at two hours away, Coenosium Gardens is something of a 'Pandora's Box' to someone hooked or becoming hooked on conifers. Once you see the THOUSANDS of mature specimens of hundreds(thousands?) of different cultivars, then you see the available stock(thousands of specimens, hundreds of cultivars), it's pretty easy to run wild. I started with a six plant order two winters ago. I bought a 'Chief Joseph' and five other great conifers. Now, well, I've got more conifers then you can shake a stick at. Even if you don't buy any plants, it's an amazing place to visit. I'd never seen anything remotely like it before. Also, while the costs of 'Chief Joseph' and other coveted conifers is high, it's not much more then a dinner out with the wife or a movie(that might suck to begin with). The plant will grow into something you look at and admire regularly over the rest of your life. There's no question they justify the price. -Will |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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Will, I'd like to make a visit to Coenosium Gardens this summer or maybe sooner(got too excited about CJ that I forget that my daugther goes to UW and we can probably swing by on our way to the university of wa).
I was at Stanly and Son's not too long ago and couldn't get enough of all their conifers. I got free plants from his 'dump' pile (they were terribly root-bound but beautiful nonetheless). There were lots of cryptomeria and chamaecyparis. I eagerly loaded @ least two dozens of these into the back of a friend's van. The rest (at least half an an acre worth) were donated to our master gardener plant sale.
Anyways, I can't wait til I get my hands on a Chief Joseph (and don't mind paying for it). The main part I am worried about is keeping CJ alive... But I do find it inspiring that there are many here on GW I can ask lots and lots of questions about whatever my plant-obsessed heart desires...lol
~Bo |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| This needs to be re-introduced into this thread. Coenosium Gardens grafts CJ onto seedlings directly from the cones on his CJ ---- grafted specimens. Most nurserymen and nurserywomen will use Pinus sylvestris which as an understock seedling-turns the needles of the grafted scionwood of CJ - - at the tips - up to an inch long - brown ---- all winter. What a waste, ya see! Bob's/Coenosium Gardens........well you know what I'm going to say!: The gene prodigy is priceless - plants will not show a single tip-burn (here) in the midwest. I believe there's a story on his website, could be wrong. My plant too was a one-gallon such as shown by midwest dave - exactly the same size. I think I paid around 50 dollars. Priceless-Seedling-Understock. Dax |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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Dax that is a very informative answer. If I were looking for a CJ this answer would tell me I had only one place to go to get it for the best looks long term. I appreciate all the information I get on here.
Cher |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Dax Does the same hold true it the Chief was to be grafted onto a black, mugo or other kind of 2 needle pine Dave |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Wow, I'd love to have a nice CJ in the yard! They are beautiful for sure, but we have many deer in the area and I think a CJ in the yard would be a prime target for deer browsing and/or buck rubbing. Hate to have a beautiful CJ specimen subjected to that kind of treatment. We've lost quite a few seedlings to deer over the years... |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Ken, those are some great pics of your CJ! That's a nice sharp yellow lighting up your yard. I think this is why I and so many others are impressed with CJ (especially in the dark of winter when there's not much color around). I am very much looking forward to my trip to Coenosium Gardens. Thanks for posting your beautiful pics. Dax, thanks for sharing your knowledge about CJ. I also agree with Cher, your info is very informative and helpful. I will bring it with me on my hunt for a Chief Joseph. ( : ~Bo |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| This article recently posted to Iseli's website describes the yearly metamorphosis CJ goes through. Interesting to hear that it drops it's 1 year needles in late spring/early summer compared to other conifers that shed older needles in the fall. With all the highlight on winter color I had never heard this (mine will see it's first spring in a few months). |
Here is a link that might be useful: Iseli article
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Thanks midwestdave. I see zero burn on shedding needles here. If Iseli was aware of the compatibility of understock to scion it could be possible they'd be writing a different article-description. DavidV - the same does hold true when it is grafted to anything "other" than Pinus contorta. Bob's emphasized it clearly. The reason he uses seedlings of CJ of course is because of the closest prodigy of seedling and scion, but also because, he has stock plants coning freely. He figured out something of rare proportions whether thru luck/skill - it doesn't matter. It's a wonderful discovery, he's made. Of course mugo - or var. pumilla (used a lot for grafting dwarf/mini conifers in Europe) - or anything of dwarf understock-growth should not be used for long-term compatibility because the scion will soon outgrow the slower understock - creating an imcompatible union that will "snap off", failing later....Speed of the understock needs to be compatible to that of the scion for you others out there that may not know this or understand how to select seedling-understock choices when grafting. var. latifolia should be used for hardiness purposes -(Pinus contorta var. latifolia)..... I'll assume. One more tip - never graft Abies concolor to Abies fraseri. You'll be looking at 100% dead plants in about 10 years. Glad I could be of help. Dax |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Compatibility seems to play a huge role here. Looking at my plant, as young as it is, still has 2-year needles so maybe I can anticipate normal shedding next fall. For Iseli to crank out that many CJs, they must use sylvestris or contorta. Maybe rcsmith is lurking and knows? One picky conifer... are any others so finicky? |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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Picea pungens 'Mrs. Cessarini' is known to die for unknown causes at any age. Same for Picea glauca 'Blue Planet'.
Pinus resinosa brooms are notoriously known to be difficult to graft.
Stephen knows quite a lot about finicky conifers. I may have a list somewhere of his comments, or maybe not. Dax |
RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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Here's another way to obtain a 'Chief Joseph'--photoshop a normal lodgepole pine. All lodgepoles yellow a tad in winter, so by upping the color saturation by +40 in Photoshop I cheaply obtained a 'Chief Joseph' for the wife. Not a much different process than used in more than a few nursery catalogs?
However, a true 'Chief Joseph' is devoid of green color. Correct?
And the untouched photo
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RE: Anyone have Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph' seed
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| Just an FYI I just bought a Chief Joseph from bonsaibob on ebay and he has more on there right now. Just in case anyone is interested. PS Thanks guys for showing yours it pushed me to get one of my own. Amazing plants and about as beautiful as a conifer can get. |
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