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Pinus coulteri.......

Posted by conifer50 6b/7aGA (My Page) on
Mon, Jan 9, 12 at 16:06

....cones from Jackson County, Oregon....this being the most northernly known native outlier/disjunct population.

Johnny

Photobucket


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

I was not aware that there was a population in Oregon! Thanks for sharing these cones.

-Sam


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

Sabiniana.


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

Right on Ronald!...Lots of fog in North Georgia today..Big Cones, Big Mistakes, and it's Monday...that one is inexcusable.

Thanks,

Johnny


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

Here's a reference article on "Pinus sabiniana" in Oregon.

Johnny

Here is a link that might be useful: Discovering Gray Pine in Oregon


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

Nice, but the Pinus sabiniana in Oregon are all planted by people, or naturalised regeneration from planted trees; it isn't genuinely native in Oregon (despite what the article claims!).

Resin


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

Lovely cones!


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

Just last week I visited an excellent stand of this species, with some of the largest I have seen, some approaching 100 feet, probably. It is located on the east slopes of Mt. Hamilton, just a mile from the Mt. Hamilton observatory, at elevations of about 4000 ft. It grows with Pinus ponderosa and Quercus kelloggii. Mt. Hamilton is about 20 miles east of San Jose, but it is a good 40 minute drive due to a steep and winding road. Lots of Golden Eagles up there, too. Some of the cones I measured at nearly 20 inches in length.


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

  • Posted by botann z8 SEof Seattle (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 24, 12 at 18:43

Here's a picture of Pinus coulteri cones I gathered near Coulterville last Fall. Evan got some seeds a few months later as they opened.
Mike....watching it rain.

Pinus coulteri cones


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 24, 12 at 21:12

This and P. ponderosa seem to be having a nasty needle cast problem around here in recent years, maybe it's the weather. P. jeffreyi appears largely or entirely unaffected.


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

Hi Mike,.....The cones from Coulterville/Mariposa County CA are Grey Pine/Digger Pine/Pinus sabiniana. As a rule, this eco-type from the Sierra Nevada region has much smaller cones than coastal and Klamath Mtns varities.

Johnny


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

  • Posted by botann z8 SEof Seattle (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 25, 12 at 6:49

Thanks Johnny.
The pines were pretty grey. Since I found them near Coulterville I assumed they were P. coulteri.
Wrong again!
Mike


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

Couple of clues:

Cones reddish-toned: P. sabiniana
Cones yellow-buff: P. coulteri

Seed longer than seedwing: P. sabiniana
Seed shorter than seedwing: P. coulteri

Resin


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 26, 12 at 13:59

The two trees are also quite different in aspect, Coulter pine producing large tufts of thick looking foliage (and large massive cones) and gray pine looking like a cloud of smoke.


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

concerning the "native" or "non native" status of pinus sabiniana in southern oregon---thee are other examples of taxa typically regarded as endemic to california in that area including juglans hindsii, cercis occidentalis, aesculus californica, etc. that are apparently growing natively in isolated parts of the rogue valley area of southern oregon. the plants are growing in uncultivated/non roadside areas apparently not associated with either native american or euro-american settlements. certainly other elements of the largely californian chaparrel formation are also native in the area including arctostaphylos, ceanothus, garrya, cercocarpus, etc. local experts like frank callahan seem to believe that the plants are true relicts of a more extensive "california type" flora that has been restricted by cooler temps and further reduced by recent human activities. you can probably find his article on pinus sabiniana for the oregon native plant society by googling his name, "pinus sabiniana", and "rogue valley, oregon".


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RE: Pinus coulteri.......

Of course not along the roadside. Otherwise they would have been spotted a long time ago. But there is a pattern as if someone wanted to make nonnative native. It would be quite useful commercially, isn't it? Curiously no old trees, never. The old trees are supposed to have been logged or burned. Even in these cases, no proof. Trees after a fire for instance leave part of trunks. Where are they? Where are the stumps and roots left for molecular analysis? Where is the peer review? Where is the material available for independant analysis?

Is it bad luck when a survey was done for one area and no Californian endemic was found? But after a fire, miracle: regeneration of a Californian endemic!


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