Good work Edwin, you'll bring Abies grandis to a safer status in the cultivars of Europe.

Sharp eyes too, telling the difference between small flat brooms and branch crossing/clumps must be very difficult.

Very nice Edwin .... by the way, hope you got plenty of sylvestris understocks

Do you mean to say that Abies grandis is grafted onto Pinus sylvestris?

-Sam

No Sam ... :o)

Okay, I was just checking.
You guys in Europe may just know something we don't. ;-)

-Sam

Thanks Severn and Stephen!
The cold and the hard work was worth all the effort it took to get the brooms down.

Severn, you're right, Abies are the most hard to find brooms because they look like branch crossings indeed.

If I have to make a top 5 about easy till hard to find brooms I'll personaly come to the following list:
1: Larix
2: Pinus
3: Pseudotsuga
4: Picea
5: Abies

Stephen, I was also wondering if you've some news to tell us to graft Abies grandis on to Pinus sylvestris.
It would be nice if this would give a better grafting result ;0)

Dave O. & Sam, do you have any updates about your hunting for brooms of Abies grandis and Abies amabilis?
It would be very nice if you'll find of couple from these species...

Edwin, over the New Year's holiday, I was in the San Juan Islands where there are lots of Abies grandis. After spending 3 days looking up into the trees all I found was that my neck was sore.

In spite of spending many miles of hiking in the forests of the Cascade mountains in my life, I can honestly say that I've never seen a forest of Abies amabilis. This tree must be illusive.

PW Northwest conifers listed by ease of finding (in my opinion). *** indicate plants on which I've seen brooms in the wild.
+++ indicates plants that I've never actually encountered in the wild:

Pseudotsuga menziesii ***
Tsuga heterophylla
Pinus contorta ***
Thuja plicata
Pinus ponderosa ***
Picea sitchensis
Abies grandis
Abies lasiocarpa ***
Tsuga mertensiana
Pinus monticola ***
Larix occidentalis
Chamaecyparis lawsoniana
Pinus lambertiana
+++ Abies amabilis
+++ Picea breweriana

I'll keep looking :)
~Dave

"I'll keep looking" :)
Well Dave, that's the spirit I like best :0)

This is the range for Abies amabilis.
So to see there are at least some specimens to find in that area...
{{gwi:641182}}

Abies amabilis is hard to tell apart from Abies lasiocarpa in my opinion. In some locales, they seem to a have a disease--an adelgid, perhaps?

Dave, you have found a broom in a Pinus monticola before? Do you have pictures to share, documenting this exciting discovery?!?
Thanks in advance.

-Sam

Were these found in The Netherlands and how so many Abies grandis trees together in one spot?

Dax

Dave, Abies amabilis is fairly common on the west side of the Olympic mountains. I've hiked through almost pure stands of several miles, hiking out of the North Fork of the Quinalt River on the Irely Lake trail above the lake on the way to Big Creek.
Mike

Sam, both species does have totaly differend buds.
Abies lasiocarpa does have pretty big buds, while those of Abies amabilis are very small, only 3 mm.
Also the needles are differend composited to the branch.

Dax, all Abies grandis brooms pictured here at this topic were found in The Netherlands.
Here we've plenty of timber production forests with Picea abies, Picea omorika, Picea sitchensis, Pinus sylvestris, Larix x marshlinsii and Abies grandis.

The most beautiful thing about such forests is that there are not only brooms to be found, they also provide nice seedling selections and branch mutations...

Very true, Edwin. Having not had opportunity to study the trees in detail, I can only say that, when I was driving by, it was difficult to distinguish between the two species.

-Sam

According to Edwin, I'm very curious to see an Abies amabilis broom.
Impossible to mix these species.
Clement

@Mike, I was ready to blast off to Canada. Instead, I'll make plans to do some hiking along the Quinault. This is some very valuable information. Thanks!

@Sam, the monticola broom was long ago on the east side of the Pacific Crest Trail near Chinook. There were no cameras then and I'm sure that tree has long since died in one of the numerous fires out there. However, there is the broom you found. . . .

~Dave

I see Edwin. Get em tied & good hunt.

Dax

Dave, good luck finding Abies amabilis brooms.
You've about a month time for this grafting season, otherwise you can spot them later on for the next grafting season.

Remember, you'll write history if you'll find one!
If you can't find any I'll have to do it myself some day ;0)

Mike, thanks for your information!

The range for Abies amabilis is bigger then the range for Abies grandis.
There are two varieties of the Abies grandis, the coastal form (Abies grandis var. grandis) and the interior form (Abies grandis var. idahoensis)
The last one is more winterhardy.
{{gwi:641183}}

Jerry Morris found 5 brooms of Abies grandis.
Their names are:
'By Home'
'Kootenai'
'Libby'
'Reggears'
'Seely Lake'

Are any of these still among collections in the U.S.?

And another quiestion: does someone of you have an Abies grandis broom in his/her collection?

I have no Grand Fir brooms in my collection. In fact, the only Abies grandis cultivar that I grow is Abies grandis 'Van Dedem's Dwarf' which is a seedling selection. The issue I see with the Jerry Morris brooms is that Abies grandis var. idahoensis doesn't like our coastal climate much as the Abies grandis var. grandis doesn't ofter fare well in a continental climate.

Do you know what variety of Abies grandis grows in Europe? Besides your three new ones, I also know of 'Lounovice,' 'Compacta,' and 'Henksgarden W.B.' Do you know which variety of Abies grandis these are?

I justed checked in the RHS encyclopedia and saw a listing for Abies grandis 'W.C. Gaffney.' This was supposedly found in Washington state and introduced by Larry Stanley. If this is correct, it may be the only known coastal Grand Fir cultivar and something I must have in my collection.

~Dave

"something I must have in my collection."

Couldn't agree more, Dave.
I doubt if Larry still has one hanging around his place, however..
Definitely worth hunting for, though!

-Sam

Here's a Abies grandis placed on top of a Abies amabilis branch.
Mike.

Hey, Mike. Could you place an Abies lasiocarpa branch atop the Abies amabilis branch?
Thanks!

-Sam

This post was edited by monkeytreeboy15 on Sat, Feb 16, 13 at 15:40

Sure Sam.
Abies lasiocarpa on a Abies amabilis.
Mike

Something didn't work.
Mike

"Something didn't work." No worries, Mike. I appreciate it.

That's a very blue lasiocarpa you have, by the way!

-Sam

Anyone else wondering where "Rare broom hunting (2)" is?
Edwin? You holding out on us?

-Sam

I guess the coastal variety is the one we've here in the Dutch forests, because this is the fastest grower of the two which is more interesting for the timber production.

Some pics of Abies grandis dwarf seedling selections and witches' brooms I'm aware of:

The 'Van Dedem's Dwarf' isn't a true cultivar of Abies grandis, it's a seedling cross with Abies veitchii.
It was found in The Netherlands.
Abies grandis x 'Van Dedem's Dwarf'
{{gwi:641184}}

Abies grandis 'Compacta' was found as a seedling selection by the Horstmann Nursery, Germany.
{{gwi:641185}}

Abies grandis 'Lounovice', found as a broom in the Czech Republic'
{{gwi:641186}}

Abies grandis 'Chevreloup', broom found in the Chevreloup Arboretum, France.
{{gwi:641187}}

'Chevreloup', original broom
{{gwi:641188}}

Abies grandis 'W.C'. Gaffney', broom found in the U.S., I'm not sure it's still availlable there...
{{gwi:641189}}

Abies grandis 'Vanc', another broom found in the Czech Republic.
{{gwi:641190}}

Abies grandis 'Henksgarden W.B.', broom found by Henk van Kempen, The Netherlands.
{{gwi:641191}}

Abies grandis 'Steinfuert H.B.', broom found in Germany.
{{gwi:641192}}

Abies gransis 'Vonderhorst', broom found in The Netherlands.
{{gwi:641193}}

What you show us is incredible, Edwin. Of all the dwarf seedling and broom selections of Abies grandis, only one one was found in America and in all likelihood no longer exists here.

Hey, boys and girls on this side of the pond, on the west coast (you know who you are, LOL). We've got some work to do. We must find more Abies grandis cultivars and a couple of Abies amabilis. Clearly we're not worthy of any respect. Those guys in Europe and the midwest are killing us. Personally, I resolve to do more hiking in grandis and amabilis country this spring and summer.

Edwin, it would be very kind and neighborly if scions from all of those trees should somehow find their way home next winter.

Too much fun!
~Dave

Dave, I would love to join you.
Pick a date, and I'll free up my schedule. It would be a great expedition! We could even invite that Will Fletcher guy. ;-)

-Sam

that's the spirit, Sam. Mike recommended that trail near Lake Qinault. That's the first destination. I'll figure out a time frame and a couple more trails. Mike, Ron, any other ideas? We're looking for grandis, amabilis, and what-the-heck, some sitchensis since we'll also be in Sitka country.

~Dave

I wish you guys good luck in finding some nice brooms up there!
Please, keep us informed.

Sam, part 2 is on the way...

this may sound stupid since the amabailis grows in the pacific coast of canada in oregon, but i swear to god at my grandmas cottage in northern michigan, there is a tree with the exact same bark on it

Probably Abies balsamea.. It has a similar bark/trunk..

-Sam

Last weekend Erik found a new Abies grandis witches' broom.
It was hanging pretty low this time, so it could be collected very easy.
Abies grandis 'Hidden Beauty'
{{gwi:641194}}

{{gwi:641195}}