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greatplainsturf

Is planting Austrian Pine a waste of time?

greatplainsturf
12 years ago

The local big box has some decent prices on Austrian Pines. These trees are so tough and grow great in OK. Unfortunately like most of the Midwest we have pine wilt nematode killing trees each year. My question is, are there conditions (like density of susceptible trees in an area) that increase the risk of disease, or should I save the money because it is destined to die?

Comments (29)

  • dcsteg
    12 years ago

    This problem is well known in the Midwest...your included.

    As a native to North America pine wilt nematode is primarily a pathogen of non-native, 2-3 needle pines.

    There are no favorable conditions in your area that will prevent these trees (Pinus nigra) from getting PWN.

    Dave

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    12 years ago

    i suppose it would depend on how good a price .... and whether you can grow and enjoy it for a few years.. a few decades ... before it fails ...

    you could probably get a 2nd year seedling for a couple bucks.. and enjoy it for 10 years.. and get rid of it when the day comes..

    but i wouldnt waste 30 to 50 bucks on bigboxstore bargain ...

    ken

  • texjagman
    12 years ago

    Austrian pine has no hope here. It may be 2 years, 3 years, 5 years, but it will get hit.

    Bosnian is the direction I also went. It is by far the most resistent so far to wilt. I also like their thicker heavier needles as well.

    mark

  • dcsteg
    12 years ago

    Sorry Ken, I have to call you on this one.

    Would you invest in a new conifer that you knew was going to take a hit sooner then later. Knowing you I don't think you would take the risk even for 2 bucks.

    So why do you tell this person go ahead and enjoy it for a few years when that would not even be a consideration for you?

    Greatplainsturf...as much as you like Pinus nigra don't waste your time planting it even if it's given to you. Invest your time and money on something that is a known performer in your area.

    Dave

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    12 years ago

    i have some basic recall of your garden size ..

    do you really have the space for this potentially HUGE tree???? .. check out the link ..

    even for a buck.. its still just a plain green pine ...

    skip it ...

    ken

    ps how are the pungens doing???? did you replace that one sickly looking one???

    Here is a link that might be useful: link

  • pineresin
    12 years ago

    "Austrian pine has no hope here. It may be 2 years, 3 years, 5 years, but it will get hit.

    Bosnian is the direction I also went. It is by far the most resistent so far to wilt. I also like their thicker heavier needles as well.

    mark"

    Any firm evidence for Bosnian Pine being resistant to PWN? No reason why it should be any different to Austrian in susceptibility.

    If you want a PWN-resistant pine, go for Shortleaf Pine Pinus echinata.

    Resin

  • dcsteg
    12 years ago

    Scots Pine (Pinus sylvestris and Austrian Pine Pinus nigra, to my knowledge, in Midwest Kansas City are the only two species under attack here. All other species seem to be resisting. Nigra and sylvestris about 95% eliminated. The other 5% remaining will be history at the end of the season.

    If you want a stand of pines go with your native species. They for the most part are resistant to this pathogen.

    I have two cultivars that have the potential to become infected Pinus nigra 'Hornibrookiana'/ Pinus thunbergiana 'Thunderhead' but they are small, isolated, and not prime candidates for this disease.

    Link information below.

    Dave

    Here is a link that might be useful: PWN

  • greatplainsturf
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    So Far so good on the Pungens Ken. My Bakeri survived the first year dispite the horrific summer we had last year. My sickly Fat Albert was replaced this fall with a very nice Hoopsi grown by Iseli. It's already got some great root growth so I have high hopes for it.

    {{gwi:656791}}

  • whaas_5a
    12 years ago

    I was thinking of diplodia tip blight. At the end of the day there are so many damn pine diseases its hard not to plant one that will be susceptible to something.

    If there is one particular species that is over planted in your area perhaps that is the one you might want to stay away from if it is highly susceptible to a particular disease.

  • drdna
    12 years ago

    As I was reading this thread, I started to get worried...I have a Pinus nigra about 10 or 12 years old here and it's doing just fine right now but does that mean it's susceptible to getting that disease(PWN) in my area as well(Quebec)? I see lots of these trees around here that are now 20 or even 30 years old without showing any signs of decline.What's the actual spread of the disease?

    Dan

  • dcsteg
    12 years ago

    Dan,

    Don't worry especially if no trees are infected. Check around.

    Not to say some day they will not become a problem in your area.

    North America: Canada (Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Ontario, Quebec, Saskatchewan; probably throughout), Mexico, USA (recorded from at least 34 states, including Alabama, Arkansas, California, Connecticut. North America: Canada (Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Ontario, Quebec, Saskatchewan; probably throughout), Mexico, USA (recorded from at least 34 states, including Alabama, Arkansas, California, Connecticut

    In link. Heavy reading but understandable.

    Dave

    Here is a link that might be useful: PWN

  • greatplainsturf
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    One other thing Ken. What is wrong with a tree that is green? You can't have all exotic types can you?

  • kpgrinch
    8 years ago

    We have 30 35-ft Austrian Pines surrounding our 2.5 acre lot here in Central Ohio recently diagnosed with Dothistroma needlecast. It is all over the Midwest. Many trees can be saved but only with effort and two heavy sprays of copper-based fungicides each spring for 3 or 4 years. In a sense this is good news because if they had "Diplodia," a different fungus disease which is also prevalent in the area, they would all be declared hopeless. In the future, wewould look toward the Bosnian varieties which have similar virtues ( salt-resistance) and grow a little slower, but are considered less susceptible to these fungus-based diseases.

  • Campanula UK Z8
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I am growing p.peuce (amongst others) in an effort to avoid the fungal distress destroying our local black pines and had been told that p.heidrechii was also at risk.

    Almost regretting my new found affinity with trees.

  • wisconsitom
    8 years ago

    Camp, you just have to find those species more tolerant to atmospheric moisture, or whatever intrinsic factor leads one species to be resistant to these various pathogens and others not so.

  • edlincoln
    8 years ago

    What about pitch pine (pinus rigida) as a substitute for Austrian Pine? How susceptible is it? I've been planting it as a substitute for black pine, but have gotten conflicting reports as to susceptibility.

  • bengz6westmd
    8 years ago

    Ed, pretty sure pitch pine resists pine-wilt. So it's a far better choice than the European pines in east NA, and looks similar.

  • edlincoln
    8 years ago

    The developer who subdivided my parent's lot planted a lot of Austrian Pine. My parents kept them alive on life-support with spraying, but as soon as they decided it wasn't cost effective, all the Austrian Pine died...every last one. I've been planting pitch pine as a substitute because it is native and share's Austrian Pine's salt resistance. However, I've noticed pitch pine in the area have the little holes from pine bark beetles that spread pine wilt. I've also heard a lot of pitch pine have been dying on Cape Cod.

  • Campanula UK Z8
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Yep, I looked at pitch pine (but plumped for lodgepole - p.contorta and p.radiata - there are a lot of these locally.)...although I may as well have pulled a name out of a hat Sheesh, growing perennials is a piece of cake - no luck, no probs, another bunch will come along next year but trees, I dunno - it seems more...weighty. Anyhow, I have read garden guides and so forth but they always apply to some perfect garden and gardener - not a situation I recognise so I have always grown (and killed) heaps of stuff...and not really been that bothered...but I feel a bit more circumspect, growing trees...not least because they take bloody ages to show potential.

  • edlincoln
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Pitch pine is kind of something you mostly buy for it's salt tolerance...to plant along the shore as wind breaks or along heavily salted northern roads. If salt isn't an issue, there are more attractive options. That's kind of how I see Austrian pine to, actually. Plain old pinus strobus is way more attractive and insect resistant if salt isn't an issue.

  • Campanula UK Z8
    8 years ago

    Yep, although I am 15 miles away from the coast, both pitch pine and monterey pine are used locally as windbreak on the northern shore (along with quercus ilex).

  • wisconsitom
    8 years ago

    Camp, if you were stateside, I could take you to my acreage and rather quickly I think, disabuse you of that last statement-that trees take a long time to show their potential. There we would see hybrid larch, we would see Norway spruce, white and red pines, and we would not be able to avoid the impression of extreme vigor of young trees. Of course, these are all well-chosen species, growing in their proper element. but few plants live along a knife's edge of conditions. Most are capable of handling a range of soil types, climate characteristics, and so on. I consider trees the plants to install if you want fast development.

  • edlincoln
    8 years ago

    I'm surprised anyone in Europe plants pitch pine. No one here plants it...Austrian pine is more often planted for that purpose. I was just plating it because it is Native. What does it even look like growing in a suburban yard? I'd be curios to see pictures.

  • bengz6westmd
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Shown this before -- pitch pine between Baltimore, Md & DC:

    and a nice one in the Antietam Battlefield in Sharpsburg, MD:

    http://www.mdbigtrees.com/tree_detail.aspx?tree=TR20121202083417693

  • Campanula UK Z8
    8 years ago

    Oh no, not in surburban yards - my poplar plantation is a little woody, well-drained outpost in a waterland - the Norfolk Broads...or several hundred hectares of peat cuttings in a naturally flat wetland. Trees are generally used as windbreak and boundary markers although my strategy (ahem) is basically a utilitarian effort to replace the aging poplars with a more diverse and hopefully productive variety...but I admit to looking at the timber aspects as much as the aesthetics.

    Ah Tom, I really should take more notice of the evidence under my eyes - even my little seedlings, after only 3 years production, although still largely only potential, once sown and grown, they can be left alone to get on with it ...unlike the faffing, dividing and general meddling required with perennials. And I admit, when I first bought the wood, my mind flew to all those imaginary plants I was going to have, ignoring the traditional order of trees, then shrubs, then ground cover method of restoration and conservation...but thankfully, I sowed tree seeds anyway (in amongst the manic sowing of foxgloves, campanulas, primroses etc.) and now, a few of them have actually been planted in the wood. Guess it must be an age thing - had I had this space 20 years ago....sigh.

  • wisconsitom
    8 years ago

    The growing season up where my plantation is is dastardly short. Yet even given that, the tallest larch from a 2008 start are now closing in on 25 feet, so 8 meters and some. The Norway spruce are right behind them, that being another species that springs out of the ground lustily. I'm getting a few bigtooth aspen seedlings this spring and I'm sure they will likely outgrow all of the above in time, albeit these long-lived conifers will still be putting on height increments long after the aspen have done their thing and died or been harvested. Either way, I can't think of a hobby quite as fun as watching your work pay off, watching these things grow.

    To that end, my next adventure-if I can get some buy-in from my wife-will be a tropical location to grow trees! I am in contact with a fellow down in Costa Rica, and the growing conditions in that climate are almost unbelievable.

  • Campanula UK Z8
    8 years ago

    Whey-hey - nothing like a brush with mortality to give you a new lease of life then? My wood is, I think, an adventure too - Kids grown, flown (more or less)...owning land has been brilliant for our family - daughter started bee-keeping, youngest, a welder and metalworker is thinking of forges (and ziplines), eldest also a gardener and woodworker... and a grandaughter who has already sown her first seeds. You are absolutely right - life really does not get better than standing with your hands on the trunk of a fine tree

  • wisconsitom
    8 years ago

    You're not wrong Camp...you're not wrong. Lots of "doctoring" coming up but I'm feeling the best I have in months.

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