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sherwood_botsford

Zone requirements for douglas fir naturalization

I often buy surplus seedlings from various BC producers for my tree farm, here in Alberta. One company, PRT has the goodness to publish the BGC zone that the seedlings were intended for.

I, of course, am moving them out of zone, so I have to make some guesses based on the zone information as to the probability of their survival.

My latest round is using the file:

http://cfcg.forestry.ubc.ca/resources/cataloguing-in-situ-genetic-resources/subzonevariant-climate-data/

I've been examining two lots of douglas fir, one labeled IDF dk2 and the other just SBS

General documention of SBS is that it is a colder zone than IDF. So I checked it out first.

Now I'm puzzled.
The second lower case letter is for temperature (generally. some exceptions for coastal...) going h, w, m, k, c for hot, warm, moderate, kool, and cold.
Yet the average for the warms is higher than the average for the hots.

But the differences in all the characteristics are pretty small.

So now I go to

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hre/becweb/resources/classificationreports/subzones/index.html

And download the chunk for SBF Now on page 214 of that document doug fir has the dominant or subdominant bar for dh, dw, mh, and mw, and NO other appearance at all. Not even the tiny .1 -1% category. Temperature differences between subzones is about half a degree C.

Given the tiny temperature differences between subzones, there would seem to be either:

* A factor that the climate data doesn't capture about the differences between SBS subzones
* Some tipping point factor for either the survival or propagation of doug fir.

Can you tell me:
A: Why does douglas fir grow so well in 'h' zones, nearly as well in 'w' zones, and not at all in 'm' and 'k' zones. (A link to a relevant web page would be fine)
B: Is attempting to grow douglas fir near Edmonton a waste of my time and money? At first blush my climate norms are close to those of SDF, but the firs seem to thing that there is a big difference between.

(In passing: Climate warming is going to happen, barring a nuclear winter, or a large asteroid strike. I am deliberately trying to push the envelope and attempting to grow things that nominally don't belong. I am successful with ponderosa pine, partial success with Veitch fir, and have a test run of 1200 concolor fir using a seed source from the San Juan National Forest at the 7.5 to 9000 foot level. Figuring, if it can associate with engleman spruce, it might do well here.)

Here is a link that might be useful: BEC web subzones.

Comments (5)

  • Smivies (Ontario - 5b)
    10 years ago

    Will Douglas Fir grow well in Edmonton? - yes, there are nice 50+ year old specimens in the City. For whatever reason though, it is rarely planted.

    Will Doug Fir naturalize in the Edmonton area? - maybe...depends on the original seed provenance versus climate, competition from other plants, etc. I live in eastern Ontario and Doug Fir grows quite well here. That said, I've only seen one location where it ever self seeded into a natural area.

    Details on the seed source of your trees? - unknown but interior Doug Fir seems to occur all over...from Banff & Jasper all the way to the coast though it isn't dominate in all climate zones.

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • Smivies (Ontario - 5b)
    10 years ago

    Also...good luck with your White Fir.

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • Sherwood Botsford (z3, Alberta)
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I know they grow in captivity. I also know that you have to pick your seed source carefully. It's normal habitat is generally warmer than we are here.

    I'm trying to understand what controls it's successful adaptation. I suspect that understanding why it only grows in half the subzones of SBS is part of the answer.

    Concolor: I've got one in my front yard, now almost 6 feet high. Concolor tend to have problems with buds drying out in constant winter wind. I've had problems with them and winter bud desication. Hence my thoughts that seed sourced from a high interior desert mountain range might do well. The San Juan forest has longer winters than we do, although not quite as cold.

  • nothotsuga
    10 years ago

    Douglas Fir is growing in Russia in zone 3. I guess it is Pseudotsuga glauca.

  • Sherwood Botsford (z3, Alberta)
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I talked to a guy who worked in BC forests since posting this. The original survey didn't know about temperature. Basically they did sample surveys across the province and assigned both the temperature and warmth subzones on the basis of what they saw growing. They would assume generally that higher elevations meant colder. Windward faces meant wetter, northern faces later springs, shorter growing seasons.


    So my cart is in front of the horse. The reason that there is no DF in the other zones is that DF was used to define the subzone. Later analysis of records pinned down the climate more precisely. But the small difference between where DF grows and wehre it doesn't speaks to it being some other factor.


    He speculated that it may be the provenance of late frosts. Fir buds just after bud break are susceptible to frost damage. It becomes a race condition: Can the tree get tall enough to escape late frost before there is a bad year.


    This fits in with an article I saw about bud break in A. lasiocarpa (Alpine fir) that bud break tends to be earlier, referenced to average temps, in northern latitudes. Daylength increases more rapidly in the north, so the risk of a late frost is somewhat lower. Moreover, the growing season in the north is shorter. The combination favours trees that 'jump the gun' even at the risk of higher seedling mortality.



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