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cuddyvalley

Advice on Planting Bare Root Austrian Pines

CuddyValley
10 years ago

Hello,

I'm located in the mountains at the border of southern and central California where we have our own micro climate at an attitude of 6,000 feet mostly zone 7 with some 8. We have native Scrub Oak, Pinyon, Jeffery, and other fir and spruce varieties at higher elevations to 9,000 feet. Soil is leaning toward sandy loam with some areas containing more clay and less sand.

If you temporally pot a small tree in native soil here, which I have done (more on that below), the soil can turn cement-like if left to dry out between watering. PH is 6-7. Most areas are covered in sagebrush with annual foxtail grass and lupine and poppies along with other native flowers. The soil's organic material is higher around strands of Scrub Oak from decades of leaf shed and shade from neighboring Pinyon. All the pine on the property is old and new growth Pinyon.

After some research and discussions with a private nursery owner living in the area, Austrian pine should do well here. The property is without water at this time. We plan on constructing a well next year. I do have the means of transporting water and I have a 2000 gallon tank on the property. I found a source in Wisconsin for these trees. They are 4 year olds with a dense root system this particular grower is noted for. They will be shipped bare root via UPS from www.evergreennurseryco.com.

Also it's important to mention that last spring I purchased 400 spruce 2'+ from a Michigan grower and planted them in #5 containers using a mix of native soil and some organic compost 10% (may have been a mistake), and covered the tops with native pinyon needles and twigs to keep the trees cooler and the moisture in. I did some research beforehand and thought I was on the right track with using the native soil. I gave them a drink about every 4-5 days during the summer. They were set about a foot apart in full sun. We had an unusual heat wave in the low 90's for about a two week period plus dry wind. I moved them to a place where they would receive 3/4 day sun. The trees began dying and by late fall, all were lost. They were growing and looking fine until the heat wave. Another possibility was an organic fertilizer application recommended by the grower before the heat arrived. I found out later that I should have used a completely made-up planting mix while the trees were held in containers and that I should not have used native soil at all. The reason I went the container route was to buy some time to map out where I wanted the trees to go and then plant them in the ground this spring.

A photo attached of the land.

I'm very interested in knowing what your thoughts are on planting, soil amending, fertilizing (hearing "no" on fertilizing), and watering so these trees have the best chance to grow into mature trees.

Thanks! And thanks to Ken_Adrian for his recent advice and recommendation to post here so other members could comment.

Jeff

Comments (7)

  • Smivies (Ontario - 5b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My advice would be to stay with native Californian (& Oregon) species. Western North America has the greatest diversity of conifers in the world...why do you want to plant spruce (presumably White or Norway?) and Austrian Pine?

    If you still want 'exotic' conifers, there are many species that are better adapted to your climate than the spruce and Austrian Pine.

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    why dont you tell them what i suggested.. maybe we can glean some information.. if they start arguing about it... lol ..

    there is this thing.. called copy/paste.... lol ... sorry.. i am in happy mood ... i am sure that will end soon ....

    ken

  • CuddyValley
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey Ken,

    Did you get my email reply with photos?

    Copy/paste the entire private message with your suggestions here. Fine with me.

    J


  • treebarb Z5 Denver
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cuddy,

    That's a tough loss. How many are you having shipped this go-round? Your pic indicates a high desert climate. What's your annual precip and have you had a soil test done?

    Austrian pine are not particularly xeric, especially when establishing. I tried something similar last year on a much smaller scale, with Doug fir, Ponderosa and Pinon pine. They were seedlings I potted up into 1 gallons in Tapla's mix, then buried in a holding area. We had a cold snap in April that froze tulips, followed by 104 degrees the first week of June. I lost all but one Ponderosa seedling. I found it very difficult to accurately monitor the moisture in the pots and compensate for the drying winds and altitude..

    Lesson learned for me was to not order more at one time than I can plant in ground and properly care for. I do think the plants coming from different climates than mine had an impact, too. Is there a county extension service in your area that sells seedlings? That would be a great place to start finding the right trees for your area. If the plants are coming anyway, I would skip the potting and plant them in ground. Better luck to you this time!

  • CuddyValley
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi TreeBarb,

    I had originally ordered 40 and opted for 10 as a test. They went from the box straight into the ground today. Annual precipitation varies:

    2004-05 - 31.29 inches

    2005-06 - 22.26 inches

    2006-07 - 8.45 inches

    2007-08 - 13.10 inches

    2008-09 - 7.77 inches

    2009-10 - 16.12 inches

    2010-11 - 20.18 inches

    2011-12 - 10.09 inches

    2012-13 - 9.41 inches

    We just had a storm roll through a couple of weeks ago that brought in 5 inches within a 2 day period. Most welcome.

    Those are Pinyon Pine you see in the photo. Very old. Jeffery Pine do very well here. My containerizing tree days are over.

    The Is there a county extension service but they do not sell seedlings and the State stopped their seedling programs due to funding issues. I purchased the 10 trees from Evergreen Nursery in WI. The 30 additional trees will come 10 at a time over the next few weeks which will give me time to plan and plant.

    I also have 10 Prairie Gold aspens on the way to test from Faller Nursery NE. They should do well here.

    Thanks for your comments.

    Have a great day.

    Jeff

  • treebarb Z5 Denver
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    CuddyValley,

    Sounds like you're on the right track! It's great that you and the nursery were able to work out staggered shipping. Much more managable. Now I've learned something I wouldn't have thought of! You'll have to let us know how it turns out. I think you have a shot at the aspens with your altitude.

    You get a lot more precip than I expected, that's a good thing! I'm including a link for University of Idaho's seedling program in case you want to experiment with seedlings in the future. They have a good selection and you can buy 5 of a species. CSU's program, where I got a lot of stock has a 30 tree minimum and I don't need that many of anything anymore.

    I wish you a good planting season!

    Barb

    Here is a link that might be useful: University of Idaho

  • edlincoln
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My advice would be "don't".

    Austrian pine is VERY disease prone in the Eastern US...my parents lost a lot of them. Not sure about California. Austrian Pine's main selling point is it's salt tolerance, but it doesn't look like you are on a Highway or the coast. Blue Spruce would be a better choice.

    Biggest advice with bare root seedlings is to coordinate shipping times with days off...they don't last long if not planted immediately. (Why I think potted is a better choice for amateur gardeners...)