In Oklahoma we typically have 20-30+ days over 100. So I dont think it is going to work.....but I'd sure like it to.

Mark

Hey Mark. Im growing 'Red Obelisk', 'Purple Fountain' ,'Aurea Pendula', 'Roseomarginata' aka 'Tricolor', and Dawyck Gold'. Most get full sun until about 2-3pm and then evening shade except the 'Aurea Pendula' which gets mostly shade. They were planted within the last 3-4 years and haven't grown a lot. The last two summers have been brutal with heat and drought but they have done well considering they're trying to get established. I water them well. I also have two other 'Purple Fountain' planted in full sun all day. They're alive but they start looking different as the growing season progresses. They lose the purple color and some of the leaves tips burn. They were planted 2 years ago to test the heat and sun tolerance of my area. I think the next 2 or so years as they get more established will give me a better idea of their tolerance. I'll try to remember to get pictures as the seaon progresses. Feel free to email me throughout the year to remind me because I get pretty busy at the pinetum.
I also had a problem with borers on a 'Red Obelisk' but caught then early and used systemic imidacloprid. Everything is fine now. I plan on using systemic imidacloprid until they get estbalished.

Patrick

We usually have one horrific heat spell per summer when the temps are over 100 for 2-3 days, but I think that a real difference is that our nights are still pretty cool. I agree that it sounds like a long shot for you and they are so slow-growing that even fairly small specimens are pretty pricey so you don't want to plant one with poor odds of survival.

Sara

Too afraid to try them here. I will wait to see how Patrick's do over the next few years before I try one. I have no shade yet and that is one thing I think they really need in our area to grow reasonably well and by that I mean not die after they become established. Afternoon shade will probably be required where dozens of triple digit days are common.

About Patrick's pinetum... let me tell ya I take reasonably good care of my landscape but his is impeccable. I would view his results with just about any species as a best case scenario for our climate, whatever they may be.

Also nothing wrong with starting with a small baby (inexpensive experiment!) and lots of shade cloth for a couple years. The local Home Depot had several purple leaf varieties last year to my astonishment. I can't imagine too many of the ones sold are still alive and in good health. If I recall, the ones they sold were about 10-12' tall and around $100 which was quite a bit too much to tempt me at the time. I wouldn't spend more than $30 on an experiment such as this, personally.

John

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Wed, Mar 20, 13 at 16:59

a HUNDRED FREAKIN DOLLARS for a 12 inch plant ...

see link ...

heat is irrelevant .... IMHO .... we had three weeks over 100 ... i didnt notice anything unusual with the beech.. of course.. they could all be dead right now.. lol ... 5 to 10 year old trees in MI ...

and the only thing worse was the humidity last year ... ALL summer ...

i note the link says zone 4/5 to 7 .. and i surely know nothing about OK ... so its simply observation..

hey. maybe its a winter thing.. or your lack of winter.. as i know winter???? .. perhaps there is an extended chill requirement????

apparently FF .. being in CA.. and not really knowing what winter is.. doesnt appear to know what summer is either.. lol ... man i love kidding around with you ... [just let me know if i ever get too close to any line in the sand...] ...

and.. my copper beech.. a red.. greens in late summer also .. well.. it muddles.. it isnt red.. and it isnt green ... ... and the tri color burns to heck on the white/cream color ... and the greens just chug along ...

as i said.. i am just giving my observation in MI ... and i dont know what it is worth to you ...

is there any arborteum in OK.. that you could call????

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

bunch o'links..

see if you can find peeps who grow beech ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Our sun angle is more intense in the summer in conjunction with a longer growing season compared to MI (around a month or more?) so the foliage must endure for a considerably longer amount of time. Last year, we had several triple digit days in September. I doubt MI had those! (But I could be wrong...)

And 10-12' as in FEET, Ken. lol

Don't make me pull out the pink suit ;-)

John

Edit: Nice prices on those beeches in the link!!

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Wed, Mar 20, 13 at 18:02

100 bucks for 10 feet.. thats a steal.. presuming it lives ..

i forgot about the inclination of the sun ... cant think of that ever being an issue in MI .. lol .. 45th parallel and all ...

ken

Ken, isn't life just eternal spring?

I too see this as rather "iffy". But if you must go ahead and try, don't forget soil factors. Beech are among the fussiest when it comes to having deep, rich, well-draining soil with adequate moisture and a decent amount of organic matter.

American beech is the worst in this regard, but sylvatica is right behind it.

+oM

Several years ago I added a purple beech to my collection fully aware that it might not be happy in my hot zone 8a climate but went out on a limb and tried it anyhow. Eight years later I am happy to say it hasn't missed a beat where our Summer temps almost always are 90+ and lows typically are in the 70's. I have friends in Atlanta that say Fagus has been a bust for them but they seem to do fine here just a tad further north.

I think a minority of wholesalers are putting them on F. grandifolia, which might make a difference in marginal areas like SC. There are nice, mature ones as far south as Washington, DC...but, for example, the NCSU arboretum hardly lists any European beech cultivars. And I can't believe JC didn't try a few of the classic ones. Seems like the line of demarcation is roughly similar as for ironclad rhododendrons. Which is moving north, btw. I don't know if you'd so easily establish them in DC anymore.

Full sun in Oklahoma is probably impossible; but abciximab's advice seems sound. Even where I am (northern tip of Chesapeake Bay) I'm sure my 'Dawyck Purple' only survived the last 3 hellish summers because it gets a bit of shade after 4pm. It also had one good year (2009) to get established.

This post was edited by davidrt28 on Thu, Mar 21, 13 at 0:30

'Roseomarginata' aka 'Tricolor' only does well in Kansas City if planted under the canopy of a larger tree.. A couple of hours of low sun light is ok but for the rest of the day filtered shade is a must. The same applies for most other cultivars of the Genus Fagus in my Z.5/6.

{{gwi:662545}}

I had walked away from the idea a year or two ago but then I was wandering through Home Depot and Lowes and just off the truck came a dozen 10-12' Red Obelisks for $89. So I had to just back away and think some more about it.

I'd love to have it, especially at that price, but am really concerned it wouldn't stand a chance.

I've got other maroon trees scatterd around...japanese maples, plums, red buds, etc. But you know we always want what we can't have.

mark

I planted the plain species 4 years ago.. no shade, no protection... full element expossure....the tree is still small, putting only 12" last year.... I'm sure I have the worst growing conditions (weather) of anyone in this forum.
I'm not sure how different the red forms are tho.

osprey

Dirr writes that fagus dislikes extremely hot summers. On the other hand I have seen beech trees growing quite big in northern Italy which can easily get 40-50 days straight of 90+ temperatures and no precipitation... so...

Fagus grandifolia native range map goes clear down to the coast so some level of success should be possible if you can find out what cultural conditions it requires if F. grandifolia understock is utilized. Starters would of course be moist well drained, shaded (at least afternoon or shadecloth to get it going), and at least moderately fertile soil. I can't get past the idea summer irrigation will have to a permanent regime in our climate. The native range is definitely in higher precip areas than OK. And wasn't it OK that had the hottest month in recorded history in 2011? That is also obviously heat that hasn't occured in the native range for grandifolia (and maybe sylvatica).

F. grandifolia is native to my north and south but not in my area most likely (like many other species) because it is so darned hot and dry in summer at relatively low elevation. The native areas north and south of me are at considerably higher elevations, around 700-1000' higher than me.

Osprey, what elevation are you at?

John

About 4860' or close to that

"just off the truck came a dozen 10-12' Red Obelisks for $89"

that price is a steal compared to what nurseries in the northeast would charge for this

so if you have the right shady spot and the will to water, why not try one?

I bet those are 'Dawyck Purple' and not 'Red Obelisk'. If they where RO they'd be 12-15 year old plants. If they are I suggest you buy all of them and sell them for $250 a pop up here. The RO will be much denser then Dawyck. They tend to bronze more in the summer but have a more vibrant spring color than Dawyck.

Well, I left the office and went straight to the big box store and picked one out. A storm front was coming through so no-one was there but me. They had 8 to pick from all around 12-15' for $89.99. I picked my favorite, went home and put it in the ground. It'll get full sun most of the day, is in a well draining spot, and all my trees are on drip so hopefully it will be happy. If not I have a full year guarantee to take it back so I'm out nothing but a year of waiting.

I'll post a pic once it leaves out in a few weeks. I love the tall narrow columnar shape.

Mark

" If not I have a full year guarantee to take it back so I'm out nothing but a year of waiting"

Keep that reciept! ;)

I don't know if you have used their warranty on plants before but they make it pretty easy. Just keep the receipt and the container is in. Bring the stick in the pot to the customer service and you get your money back. No questions asked.

John

We'll look forward to seeing the pic and hearing how it does! Good luck with it - I agree I love the shape as an accent - so many of the other plants are round or triangular. And of course the color is fabulous.

Sara

"I bet those are 'Dawyck Purple' and not 'Red Obelisk'. If they where RO they'd be 12-15 year old plants. If they are I suggest you buy all of them and sell them for $250 a pop up here."
let me take them to Connecticut, I will sell them for $500!
Good luck Jagman. Post a pic when it's planted, and try to find it a bit of shade for it!

drip is OK for maintaining water on a tree ..

but let me suggest that at least once a month.. you put the hose on trickle.. and give it a good deep watering ... w/o drowning it, of course...

rather than a superficial drip that doenst go deep into the soil ...

ken

On my larger trees I circle the tree trunk with the drip line and put 2 or 3 , two gallon per hour emitters on them. I then let it run in the summer for 3-4 hours at a time. So I think it is getting water well beyond the 12" line. I also then water by an area sprinkler in between those deep waterings for another 1-2 hours at a time to get the overall bed soaked as well to support the other shrubs and flowers. So I'm putting down fairly serious water in the summer to keep things going.

Mark

As one who waters only with drip I can attest to its ability to saturate the soil if done properly. And of course one of the great things about drip is that you get about 1/100th of the weeds that you get if you do overhead water. (Ken maybe I don't know what irrigation is, either!) (oy I have a lot to learn...)

Sara

Hey Mark. Curious how your beech handled the summer? I hope you had good results!

Patrick

I have seen many large F. grandifolia in Kisatchie National Forrest just south of me in west central la. They were not in an exposed position but within the other trees in sandy soil. This is at very low elevation, so provenance certainly would make a difference for grafting I would think. Needless to say it is very hot and humid.

American beech is native here and we see over 90 days > 90F each summer. I have 'Red Obelisk' grafted on a southern seedling of American beech. It didn't burn at all this summer, but was partly defoliated by caterpillars in September.

davidrt28, the line for rhododendrons is moving south with the new Southgate series, all the way to the coast in fact. These are the hyperthyrum hybrids. I have a 'Charles Loomis' which is not part of the series but is a hyperthyrum hybrid and created a stir with my neighbors this spring even though it is barely 3ft. It was bred in La. just north of New Orleans.