Nice chief.

That will be a mover in a few years.

Probably the sooner the better and they are very touchy about being moved.

Came from Bob. His chiefs always look good and do well.

Dave

'Continuing these conifer progression threads'....

great!

Looks great! A must have for anyone that is capable of growing it.

How much sun does this get when yellow? I made the mistake of planting in full sun. This was my very first conifer purchase (March 2011). Before I knew anything about them or that you should shade some yellow conifers until established.

it burnt it to a crisp... every needle fell off of it. A month or two later spring 2011 it broke bud and was looking OK. Hopefully mine will fill in more this year. I have noticed some of the tips burning recently... even though in 99% shade. Does your's do this? If they do, do the needles turn back to green or fall?

My first year the tips burnt, but I kept it in full sun... then the needles were lost. I'm just wondering since mine is in full shade will the needles fall off or will they be ok. If they do fall off, I'm in for a very bare plant again lol.

rick,

Yours has all the symptoms of being grafted on Pinus sylvestris under stock.

Not a good thing.

Dave

Another great series! You planted it in a perfect spot where's it's lit up by the sun.

I have wanted to grow 'Chief Joseph' or 'Gold Coin' and would appreciate any pros and cons. Great photo progression display Will. Thanks...AL

Thanks Dave, that's what I'm afraid of. When I received it, it was a 2-3 year graft. It was maybe 12" tall. No needle loss at all, very full. It was in the sun from 8AM-5PM zone 6. Needles were gone in a month, my fault.

I replanted it to a shady location last spring after all the needles fell off.

This was my second mistake... I failed to realize what is shady during late spring isn't shady during winter. So again it was in semi-full sun this past winter. I just shaded it a couple months ago because it started to burn in December. I'm kind of wondering since it was exposed to sun so long in Oct-Dec, could it be just starting to show some burning?

I'm planing on moving this again to a known winter shady location that will receive almost no sun during the winter. This will be the final spot, it won't suffer from sun burn. So if the needles happen to fall or burn... it has to be from the sylvestris understock.

I'm just not sure that's the primary reason at the moment, since I received this 2-3 year old plant with no needle loss. I'm hoping it's excess sun (because this problem will be fixed this weeken when I replant it to it's new home)

Since it is already stressed I probably would not subject it to another move.

Let it go through the season and shade it with shade cloth beginning in October and leave through the winter. IF it keeps the needles then move it next spring to a more favorable spot.

Who did you buy it from? Call them and ask what under stock is your chief growing on?

Dave

I bought it from Iconic Gardens... he may not know what the understock is either. From what I read, he doesn't graft his plants. He just lets them grow for a couple years before reselling.

for the rest of you.. there was a prior post.. where the rest of us whined about how how many we lost ..

personally.. me.. 4 .

its CARP.. and i will never buy or try another ... though i think someone threatened to send me another.. just to listen to my pain .. lol ...

unless you live in the PNW.. or can afford to buy big.. SKIP IT

ken

Anyone growing this plant with P. nigra understock?

Cedric doesn't know what his is grafted to.

Dave, no plans on moving it. Some plants that are doing well and look attractive will have things around them moved to accomodate them. Since the Chief grows slowly, I intend on leaving it there indefinetly, removing even the paths as necessary to ensure it's lifespan. Now it is worth noting that some experts find 'Chief Joseph' a little bit of an 'early peak' conifer, in that in later years it can become a bit gangly, open and sparse at the bottom due to needle drop. If/when it gets to this stage, perhaps it will turn into a few hundred pieces of scion wood and then a not-so-gentle death and pitch into the green belt behind myself. Every good thing ends one day.

Rick, my 'Chief Joseph' gets about 2-3 hours of Summer 'sunlight' each day at most. This is due to both our very low sun in Winter and our constant clouds and lack of sunshine in Winter. It's almost impossible for me to convey the difference in Winter sunlight between the Northwest and the Midwest. You literally get ten times(or more) sunshine then we do. If your 'Chief Joseph' planted in the wide open gets 150 hours of sunlight a month, our gets 15 hours. It's almost permanently cloudy here from October through January(and sometimes into May). Also like Dave suggests, yours is probably a plant/understock issue and not sunlight. I get zero Winter burn most years.

Al, 'Chief Joseph' and 'Gold Coin' are similarly bright, but most people find the Chief to be more consistently dazzlingly bright from year to year. It's a superior plant, at least for color in most people's opinion and thus the higher premium on the prices. 'Gold Coin' is a lovely tree though and certainly not a bad selection/replacement option, especially since the Chief might have some health issues in the Midwest.

Glad folks are enjoying these galleries. It's a neat new way for me to highlight some cool conifers, keep the too-many-photos in the thread nazi's at bay and still post regularly during the season. Spring's a comin', many more of these to come!

-Will

Will, I'm assuming you're encouraging others to post a series (or even one!) of a particular cultivar you post in the four years series?

I will petition to keep the photo nazi's away.

These post are way to valuable now and in the future when someone is searching for info on a particular cultivar. No need to keep this stuff a secret.

There are no health issues with 'Chief Joseph' grown in the midwest.

Just buy one grafted on contorta under stock.

Dave

winter
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summer
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Sure Will, no reason we can't make these into a nice photo series for some great conifers.

Dave, thanks for both adding two great photos of your Chief and also correcting me. I assumed some people had issues with it based almost solely on ken's rampage CARP CARP! I will say it is VERY intersting that yours still has some gold hues to it in Summer. I wonder if this is because your Summer there sets in SOO fast. What is your Spring season, about three weeks? :)

Naturally if people have their own time-lapse series, feel free to add them as you see fit. Just remember to try and pace yourself(and the forums) so we don't inundate it with galleries and alert the nazi's.

For me, most of my plants are entering their third or fourth year in the ground so I'll have a nice selection of these galleries to offer this Summer. It should be fun and educational, even if many are miniatures and won't show much change!

-Will

Will

I should have addressed that more correctly.

Late summer-early fall...just beginning to turn.

Spring season, late March through May. Some things just beginning to pop. Early flowering perennials just beginning to flower.

Dave

Hi Rick,
I also have a Chief Joseph from Cedric(bonzaibob), purchased on ebay. Planted in the fall of 2010 in full sun. I'm in Chicago. On mine the needle tips burned but the inter part turned back to green and then dropped in early summer, after the candles expanded. Only thing left was new growth.

Question for those growing this successfully, when do your plants drop their old needles? And how many years of old needles does it retain during the summer? Thanks.
Mark

I'm pretty sure Bonzaibob gets most of his plants from Stanley and Sons, who I'm almost positive do not graft onto contorta understock, if I remember correctly.

I have found that over watering these is what kills them. I live in the PNW and have bought over 50 liners to resell and have had maybe 15% loss. I replant my liners in medium fir bark dust and keep them on the dry side during the summer. The one I have in the ground get no supplemental water in summer, though get about 65" of rain in winter. I plant in full sun. In late April/March when it transition from yellow to green there can be a lot of browning on the needles, but by mid summer its a beautiful green. I know Iseli Nursery in Boring Or. had some info on this tree.

I'm in accord with Dave. Find a Chief grown on contorta roots (e.g. Iseli grown plants, if I recount correctly) and Midwesterners, especially, can rejoice. This will be the fourth season in the ground for this plant and I nary get even any burn on the needle tips. This plant is so far been bulletproof in full time unadulterated sun, both summer and winter, and never shaded in any capacity. It is somewhat protected from wind though if that may factor into it. I also don't recall if I've ever experienced any needle drop yet.

jimmy

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Here's a couple of pictures of mine taken about two weeks ago. It runs on P. sylvestris juice.

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Has anybody tried candling this plant in order to keep it compact? T.

"I'm pretty sure Bonzaibob gets most of his plants from Stanley and Sons, who I'm almost positive do not graft onto contorta understock, if I remember correctly".

Correct as far as Stanley is concerned.

My first one, from him, a miserable thing that lasted 3 years doing exactly what yours is doing Mark.

I don't think Bob F. sells them anymore. Maybe Will can find a west coast source that sells them grafted on contorta under stock.

I am looking at 2-3 years of retained growth on mine.

"Has anybody tried candling this plant in order to keep it compact? T".

None that that know of. I guess you can be the first.

Dave

Truth be told, 'Chief Joseph' can do OK on Pinus sylvestris understock, here's the problem though... it takes YEARS to overcome severe winter burning when on sylvestris. Also it is overall more sensitive to transplant, moisture, etc.

Doug Wills' original plants are on Pinus sylvestris, and they look phenomenal, minimal winter burn (a tiny bit of burn at peak color). That said, a 1-2yr graft on sylvestris will establish much more slowly and could burn severely enough that it dies.

We graft exclusively on Pinus contorta var. murrayana or latifolia, but very few nurseries use it due to availability and when you're in business getting a different type of understock for just a few varieties it's a huge PITA.

-Brent

The sun in the garden, probably one of the best for winter !

Here is a link that might be useful: PINUS contorta 'Chief Joseph'

This post was edited by CHRISTOPHE76440 on Thu, Dec 20, 12 at 10:39

Hello newbie from France, welcome to this forum.
I see that you're from France, which part and what's your interests in conifers?

Welcome to the forum, a nice Chief you're growing there.

-Will

An updated photo, five full years of growth, looks great. Thanks Bob!

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-Will

Great progression on a great plant. Thanks Will (and everyone else).

tj

Wow Will, your specimen is showing a very beatiful winter colour!
Did you've some frost recently?

One of two larger specimens I was lucky to find in 2012. The other one sold. Just beginning to color nicely.photo taken 11/11/12.

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john

Same plant about a month later on a cloudy day...john

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Whoo-wee John. That bad boy is neon.
Thanks.

tj

Nice pics.

My 20' Wates Golden Virginia pine is grafted on rootstock that has much different bark -- little reddish-brown "plates" instead of still-smooth bark of P Virginiana. And it's easily wider than the graft. My guess is Scots pine for the rootstock. Anyone know?

Ken,

Your quote: "unless you live in the PNW.. or can afford to buy big.. SKIP IT".

Buying big or living in the PNW has nothing to do with its survival rate.

Dave

Beng,

I'd say you're right unless someone grafts them on ponderosa. It is possible.

I'd like to see a photo of your 20-footer.

Dax

Dax, I promised myself to get a new, working digital camera.

Wates Golden is quite fast & should become a large tree eventually. Almost 3 feet of growth this summer -- nearly equal to a white pine. Not for small spaces...

I planted one 3 years ago. When I got it it was 8 inches tall. I get amazing color in every season from my little midget tree but I swear it isn't growing any taller. 2-4" a year is so. slow. How many years is this going to take to reach mature height? Does it ever reach a point that it grows a little faster? Beautiful! I just want it to be visible.

I saw Chief Joseph in a magazine and fell in love with it! Went online and bought a gallon pot on ebay, says what is pictured will ship, and looks nice.... however now in reading this forum, I am panicking! I have no idea what it may be grafted on, or how to care for it. I live in the high desert of NM at 6500 ft where the sun is very hot in the summers and has gotten -18 to -30 winters. The ground in my backyard is clay/sand/stone very little dirt so I usually dig holes and fill with garden soil to get plants to take. Yeah, I know, I'm a total novice. Should I even try to plant this in the ground or perhaps keep it as a potted plant where I can put on wheels and pull in & out of the sun? What type of soil should I use, and should I layer stones on the bottom of pot and/or hole? Help! I'm way over my head!

mary.. start your own post... your questions really have nothing to do with this old post ...

ken

Thanks Ken. I just found some good info on the net how to grow pine trees and am more confident now! :)

How tall is this bad boy now Will; 14 years, I'm guesting 6 feet? tall x about 2 1/2 feet wide?! Thanks and Cheers,

It's closer to 8 feet. I'm candle pruning it this Spring.

Thank you; very helpful, I picked up mine only two years ago (you're absolutely right about hard to find and get one --- an so expensive as you warned in your original posting back in 2012). Will put mine in the grown within the next two months out of the decorative pot I put in.

Cheers, p.s.: do you think it would be too much to place in the same bed with a pinus sylvestris "gold coin"? Just want a closer perspective of contrast of differences of the two.

Will; my "Chief Joseph" is an Iseli's grown, I made sure of that. Even thou this was one of the threads that I missed out and never saw. One conifer that I didn't care about how much it would cost. You bringing up this old thread; with the new pics of your 14 years old and 8 feet, gave me a chance to read all the information.

Cheers,

p.s.:

So thank you; I'm picking up my "Picea orientalis Firefly" tomorrow, another Iseli's grown --- and had West Seattle Nursery request to (Bill Hibler). Lost out last year of only one that he got in. Could you start a new thread on "Firefly"; if you have any progression, or educational information, or warnings to share. Another got to have for me to substitute "Skylands" due to limited Seattle home garden space.