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Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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Posted by TreeDazzled z10 SF, CA (My Page) on Wed, Apr 20, 05 at 2:58
| I've had a lot of trouble with sugar pine seeds. I got my seeds, after a long search, from a certain site that has been banned from mention by GardenWeb. The seeds were sent to me in a packet that was mis-labeled "Queen Anne's Lace" but 15 minutes on the phone straightened this out. They'd sent the correct seeds with the wrong label. Then, my germination rate was rather poor: only two seeds germinated out of about 30 (one without stratification, the other after about four months stratification). In addition, the seeds have a remarkable propensity to grow mold, lots and lots of it, I don't know why. This seems to happen even after a dip in 50% bleach, almost as though the seeds have mold impregnated in them by nature's design.
Finally, though, I found an article on germination of sugar pine seeds in the American Journal of Botany (65:804; I can post the abstract if requested). This article seemed to explain it all: "Complete removal of the seed coats yielded prompt germination without stratification." I just had to remove the seed coats completely! It was a little strange though, this author saw 50% germination after a month's stratification (to my <10%); he saw 90% germination, in short order, after 5 months' stratification (to my <10%). But I decided to forge ahead with the great sugar pine seed operation. You can see pictures at http://www.treedazzled.com/photos/blog_images/.
But, unfortunately, devastatingly, this didn't work!!! I denuded seven seeds, stuck them on coffee filters in plastic bags, and have seen no germination after two weeks (whereas the author of the Am J Botany article saw 100% in a few days). My question is: why? Is the American Journal of Botany article wrong? Has anybody ever heard of removing the seed coat for this or other species, and does it work? Are my seeds bad? Does anybody know of a better source for sugar pine seeds? |
Here is a link that might be useful: Removal of seed coat from sugar pine seeds
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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| Whoa! Did you read the article carefully enough? There could be several tricks involved. Was the article on sugar pines? Seed coat removal for appropriate species facilitates large-scale production. Not necessarily easy. |
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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| I'd suspect at the least it will need very strict hygeine - the seed shell provides a lot of protection from moulds, mites, and other pests and diseases Resin |
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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| I have no idea what site it is that is banned, that you ordered from. But if the company can't even label their packets correctly, who is to say that they are testing their seed for viability? You might have better luck by contacting a reputable seed dealer like F.W. Schumacher, or if you are a member of the Conifer Society, check to see if someone has donated these seeds for the annual seed exchange. Susan |
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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| Thanks for all these thoughts! greyneedle, I read the article as closely as I could, and it was on sugar pines, but frankly the description of seed coat removal was skeletal at best. I figured it couldn't hurt to try and just started cutting. Interesting to know that seed coat removal is used for large-scale production of some species. Do you know of any examples off-hand? Resin, I agree that hygiene may indeed be an issue. I lost one of my two seedlings because it was simply overcome by mold. Susan, THANK YOU for the pointer to F.W. Schumacher. That other nameless company is definitely a bit shady. Believe it or not I hadn't heard of F.W. Schumacher until this moment. Looks like they have it all. Apparently I can buy sugar pine seeds by the pound (2100 per pound). If I start with 2100 seeds, even 1% germination should give me more seedlings than I can possibly handle! Unless I get a bigger porch...or a divorce... |
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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| TreeDazzled, I tried sugar pine seeds from Schumacker last spring. I only purchased a trial packet so I only had a handfull of seeds to work with. I placed them in moist milled sphagnum moss in my fridge crisper drawer for the designated amount of time recommended by their website. Also, I cleaned the seeds off from the ridiculous amount of mould once a week or so. No removal of seedcoat, scarification, or any special treatment. I believe out of about a dozen or so seeds only about two didn't grow. By this past fall I had about 10, 8" sugar pine babies! Sadly, the rabbits ate them all during the winter months. I was quite upset to say the least. Good luck with Schumacker, I've ordered from them a few times before with excellent results in all instances. |
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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| Thanks for the encouragement, I will definitely try Schumacher. Nice to hear that somebody else noticed the mold on these babies. I've never seen anything like it. Anybody else ever seen seeds grow such copious amounts of mold, so quickly? |
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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| Mold can develop on any seeds not rinsed in a fungicidal solution. You had no control over these seeds between harvest and purchase, so you don't know the storage conditions. Some of the seeds may have been DOA. If you should ever again go to the ridiculous lengths of removing seed coats, do it under sterile conditions. But if so-called seedcoat dormancy is present, it should be sufficient to crack or pierce or abrade the seedcoat. Such seeds may have been collected prematurely and may be worthless. |
I'm not crazy!
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| Just wanted folks to know that I found another example of breaking dormancy by removal of seed coats, in Journal of Integrative Plant Biology. 47(1). January 2005. 38-49. The abstract says, "The most effective method of breaking dormancy was to remove the seed coat totally." The authors were studying Garcinia cowa, whatever that is. I'm pretty sure it's not a conifer! My major error seems to be trying this technique with a species that apparently isn't so hard to germinate. I'm trying sugar pine again with seed coats intact and longer stratification. Shoot |
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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| Garcinia cowa is in Clusiaceae, same family as Hypericum. I'd not consider any info about it as being reliable for conifers too! Resin |
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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| A late note... In the seed forum, wanna_run_faster found that he had to remove the outer coats of coffee seeds, in order to get them to germinate: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/seed/msg0621381423828.html |
Here is a link that might be useful: FINALLY figured out how to get coffee to germinate!
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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| That is how I germinate Kentucky Coffeetree seeds. I put a nick in the extremely hard seed coat, soak them in water for a day or two, let them swell up, and then remove the seedcoat. They promptly germinate in a week or so. |
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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I am in Aussieland, but many of our natives require bizarre intervention to the seed cases in order to be allow germination. The most common being bushfires, particularily for acacias(wattle) and banksias (bottlebrush). I grew several hundred Tagastase (tree lucerne - not native) a few years ago, and recommendation to germinate them was to abrade the seed casings with sandpaper, creating a hole in the casing,then to soak onite in water poured over them at close to boiling point. It worked. Germination was about 90%
Gail |
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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| I have been trying for a long time to find a source for Sugar Pine seeds or seedlings. Can someone PLEASE direct me to a source? |
RE: Complete removal of seed coats for prompt germination
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| Please read the above thread. |
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