Interesting Observation: Conifers and Wet/Dry Clay Soil

11 years ago

This will be year six for me and I've witnessed something I wouldn't have expected. Only on one area of my property is there the gooiest of nasty clay soil that can either sink a shoe like quicksand or can become so dry it takes a pick axe to make a hole.

Year one I began with seedlings of Picea omorika, Picea pungens, Abies x phanerolepis, & Abies nordmanniana. The remaining pungens are yellow and will go. 90% of the pungens died. A few omorika remain at the uppermost portion of the hill but are very light green in color and are clearly suffering. The same can be said about Abies x phanerolepis... that only a few remain at the uppermost top of this hillside and they are slowly growing but look better than the omorika's. Again and like the pungens: 90% of the omorika's & Abies x phanerolepis died.

Abies nordmanniana from the top of the hillside to the very bottom where standing water will sit for days, they remain and are vibrant green and 100% healthy. While I lost possibly 25% of the Nordmann's, the other 75% remain. Today I got to thinking about their Mediterranean 'roots' and I thought... well that might make sense as to why they're flourishing... Unfortunately, I haven't researched exactly what their native environment is like, yet I'm logically compelled to believe they are in an environment with more rain than most fir-species. And I wouldn't at all be surprised if soil conditions are, clay. Naturally, my next thought being that the next logical choice for my hillside would of course be: Abies bornmuelleriana.

Last year I replaced a lot of the dead with Thuja occidentalis, which I'm certain will thrive just fine, however, I don't think most anyone would ever think of a fir to be a flourishing survivor on asphyxiated soil.

So give them a try, and spread the word.

Regards,

Dax

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Comments (8)

arceesmith
11 years ago
Dax, this is a fascinating observation. Too bad so many trees were lost, but the knowledge gained is a big plus!
gardener365
Original Author
11 years ago
It's unreal!

Dax
tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
11 years ago
Wow, six years already! Nice report. Most of my clay has been amended with compost for 20+ years but I have some Tsuga cans doing well in clay along with Picea glehnii and Picea abies (which I think can grow on Ken's driveway).

tj
gardener365
Original Author
11 years ago
Yep, still living in paradise or shall I say, on paradise??lol

I thought Norway might grow on that slope but I chose Picea orientalis along with omorika as the seedlings for this place. Which of course I completely forgot to mention that Picea orientalis 'sleeps with the fishes' just as the pungens, omorika's and Canaan's do.

I saw your reference to Ken's driveway after the ACS national meeting in Michigan but never asked what the joke is??

Dax
tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
11 years ago
He always jokingly says hosta needn't be babied as they can grow on a driveway.

tj
ospreynn
11 years ago
A. nordmanniana has been the best so far in my clay.... A. firma will die in less than a year... only due to the soil.
wisconsitom
11 years ago
When I get into the "fun trees", that is, after this year's 6000 are in the ground, Ima plant some nordmannianas for sure. A good zone's worth colder than you, Mr. Dax, but if a few early trials can make it, we'll get more. Seems like a really strong Abies.

And yes, I really did write 'Ima'. Some slang is just so idiotic, I can't resist!

+oM
gardener365
Original Author
11 years ago
Ima's smooth. I read it like a fisherman throws a net.

+oM, Don't go with the strain Ambrolauri. They're no good. I was on the phone with a friend today and he said he was thinking of ordering extra fir for his grafting and said he was going to ask the supplier if they had the 'hardier' nordmann strain. I wasn't sure what he meant and brought up "Ambrolauri" -which he had no clue about! Apparently, there are colder seed provinces similarly as with lots of species... three come to mind immediately: Pinus armandii, Cedrus libani, and I'll throw in Pinus parviflora because he and I spoke of that today.

Osprey, good to know. I'm going to keep notes on the conifers you can grow because there are always creepers coming in and you're not around like you used to be. Thanks.

TommyTsuga- thanks for heating up the conversation...;)

Dax